Is my friend being reasonable?

[nowitsshowtime]

I think it sounds like your friend did a lot so far. I surely wouldn't co-sign or put a car under my name for anyone (maybe one friend). So if there was any "profit" I think its fair to give him some sort of kick back. He took a huge risk, with risk comes reward or you wouldn't really take the risk would you?

And also, as mentioned do you really need a new car? You're struggling that much but you want to get another new car? I don't get it. Do you think these people driving around in a 1994 toyota camry are doing so because they like the car, or because it's what they can afford? Do the maintenance on the car and it shouldn't just explode on you, or, just buy a japanese car.

[chielgirl]

Originally Posted by karen_in_nh_2012

Honestly, I think it's unreasonable to expect your friend to co-sign a loan for you, after all he has already done. I am generous with my time and money, but would never co-sign a loan for anyone (OK, maybe my mom or sister if either needed me to, but no one else!).

Get a loan in your own name if you want a different car. If your credit isn't great, just deal with it and the higher interest rate that comes with it.

^^^
This.
Your friend helped you out for years and you're being a jerk.
Cut it loose, get your own car and stand on your own two feet.

He's your friend, not your bank or your parent.

Some people are givers and some people are takers; seems like your friend is the former.
If I were him, I'd be writing you off about now.

[TracySam]

Since the thread has not been locked at the OP's request, I'll jump on too.

I first thought the initial post was a joke, or a troll. Then the OP's subsequent posts made me believe that even more. Then I was kind of shocked that it seems sincere.

Letting a friend and his spouse move in with you? HUGE. I don't care if they are paying me rent, or paying for my food, having two other people living in my home would be something I probably could never be generous enough to handle. Friend is a SAINT or a DOORMAT.

Getting an auto loan for a car for a friend to drive? Again, HUGE. As many before have said, this was taking on a HUGE risk on the friend's credit rating. Friend is a SAINT. I don't think I could have ever even asked this of a friend!

On top of the auto loan, friend gets the car insured in his name. Again HUGE. I don't care if my "friend" is a professional driver, I would never buy a car, put that friend intn hat car, and then insure that car for anyone. Probably not even a family member (I had to think about that, but no). Friend WALKS ON WATER AND DESERVES A MEDAL.

I didn't even read the business about the television deal.

If a friend has done all of that for you, don't DARE to ask for more. If the OP were my friend, I'd be really working on distancing myself.

[~Pajama mama~]

I realize I'm not in the majority here but I'm going to give my opinion. I think the friend was amazing and helped in a time of need. However, by now saying he wants the profit is a bit shystie. That was not the agreement. He knew exactly what was being asked of him when he made the agreement. He may have had all the risk but again..he knew this and agreed to "sell" OP the car for a $1 at the end. Just because he now feels like it's been more trouble and wants something doesn't mean he should get it. I think legally and ethically he is not intitled to anything. The fact that he is now changing the agreement would bother me. That's my sticking point. If you were in the beginnings of the deal and he wanted this then I would say do it since he was being so helpful. I'm with others in that I would never go sign for anyone..but..he did. To show you are grateful..maybe add something to the check you mail him.

With that said..I think you need to move forward with whatever you want WITHOUT any help from him. Get a new car if you want one..you don't have to justify it to anyone here. Just do it on your own..and you won't find yourself in this position again. I hope you post an update.

[purehuman]

But Pajama mama....it was the OP who first decided to change the agreement...when he decided that he wanted an "upgrade", and once AGAIN he wouldn't be able to do that without his wonderful friends signature.....does that sound fair?....I mean it has to end sometime....better soon than later

[~Pajama mama~]

Originally Posted by purehuman

But Pajama mama....it was the OP who first decided to change the agreement...when he decided that he wanted an "upgrade", and once AGAIN he wouldn't be able to do that without his wonderful friends signature.....does that sound fair?....I mean it has to end sometime....better soon than later

Hmm..good point. Maybe used it as a deterent? I wonder if friend still wants a cut even if OP gets new car on his own?

[SCGranny]

Originally Posted by unother

You "built equity"?

Your friend took you in, signed on for a car and insurance in his name. The risks he took were immense.

Sorry buddy but you are being irrational. If I was to get all psychotherapist on yr. a**e I'd say it's because you've become less dependent and are stung by your dependency and this little mental sleight-of-hand about "equity" is an attempt to justify your obvious recalcitrance. IOW and to be much less charitable, you sponged off of him — and he let you — and now your pride and ego is seeking a salve while dressing it in a seeming charade of rationality i.e. "the car needs work", "I built equity".

If I were you I'd think about ways that didn't require him to "buy" you another car. That would go a long way to restoring your pride.

And then...

Originally Posted by purehuman

Yes...he could...but do you really think he would?..I mean he did take you in, in a time of need....without his help, you wouldn't have been driving that nice vehicle for those 5 years....you don't sound like you truly grasp, or appreciate the RISK your friend has taken for you....and now in order to build YOUR credit, you're wanting him to again assume the risk of co'signing for you.....You really should cut the ties from this man....thank him profusely for what he HAS done....and give him a break by setting him free from your affairs... expecting anymore smacks of YOU taking him to the cleaners...you've already been taking him for a ride...while you ride in what HE'S provided for you....think of what you gotten out of all this.....now ask yourself.....what has HE gotten out of all this?

Originally Posted by seain dublin

Yes the insurance is in the friend's name, the OP mentioned that in Post #21.

You're not kidding that the friend is taking some risk. If the OP has a car crash or hits a kid, it comes back to the friend.

That's insane .

What I'm seeing here is quite a few people who are telling you that your friend took a huge risk for you, and was there for you in your time of need - and that you are not only trying to minimize that but trying to justify further profiting from his decency and good nature by pretending that you are doing him a favor. Instead of trying to get not only us but yourself to believe that you "deserve" something better, parentologist's post below makes much more sense for a real friend to consider. However, if you still think that you deserve better from someone who put themselves out for you, you will doubtless ignore it and continue to think that you deserve better.

Originally Posted by parentologist

Your friend has been incredibly generous toward you. If you are not careful, you are going to lose this amazing friend who took you in, sheltered you and your wife, put his credit on the line for you. Be grateful, shut up, keep driving this car, make it as convenient and easy as possible for him to make the payments for you. Meanwhile, stop spending ANYTHING at all and save like crazy, so that you can buy yourself a cheap good used car outright for cash when this one inevitably goes. If you end up losing money by this car dying an early death, it is NOTHING compared to the value of having and keeping this amazing friend.

When you are in a position yourself to help someone else in this way (by opening your home long term to them, and signing for a car loan for them), you can be so generous as to do the right thing, and give them any equity built up by the unsecured loan that you make them on your good credit some day in the future. Meanwhile, be grateful, scrimp and save to the point of pinching every penny until it screams before you spend it on ANYTHING, and get back on your own two feet, and off the back of this amazing friend. And then, when you are totally independent of him, use your first free spending money to take him out, or on vacation, or buy him a gift, to let him know how much you truly appreciate what he so generously did for you.

OP, your insistence that you deserve a better car and that you are only trying to help your friend so that you can profit further on his good graces is pretty sad. What is obvious is that you - like most people who get 'bailed out' - are coming not only to believe that you were 'entitled' to his help, but to resent the fact that he is not continuing to consider all of your needs, wants, and desires, as he did in the beginning, and does not wish to be further taken advantage of. You owe this person not just for providing for your needs but for continuing to support you to get you back on your feet - but it is obvious that you don't feel that gratitude that he deserves from you. Asking you to consider where you would be without his help, and without that car to drive to work, shop, etc every day, would doubtless be a waste of time. Once most people accept any form of help, they start to justify the continuance of it, resent the source of it, and come to think that they are permanently deserving of that entitlement.
Most people I know turn what should be their gratitude into resentment and/or coercion to try to get still more from others.

You are apparently following the old "Chinese responsibility" idea - that once someone saves your life, they are forever afterwards responsible for your life. That is not honest nor responsible friendship, nor is it any way to start accepting responsibility for your own life. For your own self-respect, please stop trying to figure out ways to justify your continuing efforts to take advantage of your friend, and instead realize that gratitude does not make you less of a man, but more of a responsible and cognizant human being.

[purehuman]

Originally Posted by ~Pajama mama~

Hmm..good point. Maybe used it as a deterent? I wonder if friend still wants a cut even if OP gets new car on his own?

I highly doubt it...I think his friend just wants to be made "whole" again.....and be out from the debt that the OP has incurred in his name

[cpg35223]

Originally Posted by anthonyfromMA

A few years back my wife and I were struggling financially after a failed business venture. We moved from MA to CT into my friends condo.

We split all utilities, he generally ate a good chunk of our groceries (he rarely bought his own and felt he was entitled to ours since he was helping us out). We paid a small rent and had the finished basement as our space.

Shortly after moving the transmission on my car started to go, and since my credit wasn't that great my friend agreed to put a car in his name that I would pay for and drive, so we could get special low manufacturers APR. Then when it was eventually paid off he'd sell it to me for $1 (this was all verbal, not in writing, but I have known him for 20+ years and wasn't worried)

Fast forward a couple of years later and my wife and I are back on our feet, I have had steady employment with the same company for a year and a half and we have our own place now.

The car is still under his name (I didn't go the co-signer route because I feared my credit might drag the deal down)

The vehicle is a 2008 Pontiac G6 GT and with 60K miles on it, I just had some brake work done and I've been told a clunk in the front is the struts leaking. I'm kind of tired of the quality of GM cars and thought it might make sense to trade this car in and get into something with more reliability (honda, toyota, nissan)

My credit is still being rebuilt, but with my current arrangement with my friend the payments for the car and insurance are automatically deducated out of his bank account monthly and he has to cash a check we mail that covers it all.

I found out that we have a few grand in equity in the vehicle (I had traded in my vehicle and got a few grand for it when we purchased this one) and proposed we trade it in, he co-signs a loan with me on a newer, better brand vehicle. I figured that would:

1. Help me rebuild my credit and help his at the same time (since right now he's the only one who benefits from the car payments)

2. I'd be making the car and insurance payments instead of him being saddled with that (plus he wouldn't have to wait for our check, then drive to the bank each month to deposit it)

3. Make good financial sense since who knows what will go at 80K or 100K miles on this? I can trade into a brand new vehicle or something with 20-30K miles on it

He said he'd co-sign with me, but also said this:

Not to be a douche, but if it's sold and there is a profit on the vehicle I think I should get the profit from the sale as the vehicle is under my name and insurance and I have all the liability.

So I replied:

But I've been making the monthly payments that built the equity. If we kept the pontiac and paid it off in 3 years it would have a value of probably 5-7k. Would you expect to have a portion of that value then (if sold/traded) as belonging to you?

and he responded back with:

Ah yes, however you could not have gotten the loan without my help, also technically I've been paying the loan and you've been paying me back, plus I was gracious enough to help you in your time of need.


I really appreciate that he helped us out in our time of need, he definitely went above and beyond. I don't want him to feel used or unappreciated, but I do feel he's being unreasonable in this situation.

I've reimbursed all payments he's made and also put down the intial few thousand from my trade-in value. And since I was going to own the vehicle in the end, I'm not sure how he feels entitled to the equity if we trade it in?

Am I missing something here?

My God. Your friend should have a freaking basilica named after him after all he's done for you.

I think you should let him have the cash as your way of saying "Whoa, thanks for going way beyond what any normal person would do," and then buy a car with your own money and your own credit.

I really think you should do whatever it takes to preserve this friendship. Because friends like this don't come along every day. Or even every decade. Meanwhile, I think you're being a self-centered horse's rear end.