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They came to my house. I did not bring up the subject of interstates, or Kindles at ALL. They are not content to let sleeping dogs lie. They proceeded to bring up the dangers of the interstate SEVERAL times, including telling me (who they know uses the interstate to go see my daughter several times a month, and to drive to Dallas often) that "anyone who drives on an interstate highway is stupid and deserves whatever happens to them because they ought to know better." COME ON, MAN - that is a HORRIBLE statement!
So - they mentioned this several times. Then they chose the most dangerous highway around, with a much higher fatality rate than the short stretch of interstate they might have used instead (which I did not mention) to drive 30 miles to where they wanted to go while they were here.
Well - they are so concerned about highway safety, right? (I mean, this much really is true - they really are apparently very concerned about highway safety - which in itself is not an unreasonable concern.) So I told them, "You really need to reconsider this route - you should never use this road if you can go another route." (Google Highway 31 east Texas fatalities) In fact, I CHANGED JOBS once because this road is so dangerous and it was the only short route to the job, and my husband didn't want me driving 60 miles every day on this road during peak traffic hours. Anyway - my parents didn't believe me. In other words, I'm a liar. Go figure.
Common sense and truth are very important to them - as long as their own plans and beliefs and agendas are bolstered by them. If not, chuck 'em.
Were our parents' separated at birth???
My parents think I should divorce my husband because he doesn't work full time. I'm the main bread winner. They think he's a loser because of it, even though they have no idea the situation behind it. I tried explaining once and they called bs. I didn't lie to them and they call bs. Priceless. So, my brother gets divorced this year to his wife of 20 years...they CRIED. But she cheated on my brother several times but they were so upset...and yet, they WANT me to divorce...oh, Kathryn, I can't even explain it properly because it's so ridiculous.
So what do they do? Never speak to him, address letters and such to my maiden name, give me veiled AND overt insults about him every chance they get. And they still can't figure out why he's not coming to the Christmas get-together. Which, btw, I haven't fully decided if I'm going.
I understand that having to bring it up, to get that dig in just one more time. I get how they say they abhor something when YOU bring it up, but find themselves doing that very thing when it's THEIR idea.
I don't believe I'm projecting my parents onto yours...I believe they are cut from the same cloth. I believe a big part of their behavior is based on MONEY...yes, money. Mine, too, are terribly concerned that their children want all their money. Holy God, when did I ever say/want/do that? Oh, it must be my stepmom's nieces and nephews who want her money...which she actually likes...but when it comes to her husband's kids? HELL NO...talk about projecting her own fears!
So when people come on here and still insist it's about the Kindle or they say "how dare you ask them for a favor"...I have to laugh. They truly don't get it. For that, they should be thankful. I'm not saying I don't love my parents because I love them very much. So much, in fact, that for the whole of my life, I've allowed them to be in my life despite their "disappointment" in me. When you do tell them certain things are insulting or hurtful, they tell me I need to get on pills and go see someone. That's when I really laugh...because I know what the deal is...they're never wrong. No amount of tears will change that.
My parents think I should divorce my husband because he doesn't work full time. I'm the main bread winner. They think he's a loser because of it, even though they have no idea the situation behind it. I tried explaining once and they called bs. I didn't lie to them and they call bs. Priceless. So, my brother gets divorced this year to his wife of 20 years...they CRIED. But she cheated on my brother several times but they were so upset...and yet, they WANT me to divorce...oh, Kathryn, I can't even explain it properly because it's so ridiculous.
So what do they do? Never speak to him, address letters and such to my maiden name, give me veiled AND overt insults about him every chance they get. And they still can't figure out why he's not coming to the Christmas get-together. Which, btw, I haven't fully decided if I'm going.
I understand that having to bring it up, to get that dig in just one more time. I get how they say they abhor something when YOU bring it up, but find themselves doing that very thing when it's THEIR idea.
I don't believe I'm projecting my parents onto yours...I believe they are cut from the same cloth. I believe a big part of their behavior is based on MONEY...yes, money. Mine, too, are terribly concerned that their children want all their money. Holy God, when did I ever say/want/do that? Oh, it must be my stepmom's nieces and nephews who want her money...which she actually likes...but when it comes to her husband's kids? HELL NO...talk about projecting her own fears!
So when people come on here and still insist it's about the Kindle or they say "how dare you ask them for a favor"...I have to laugh. They truly don't get it. For that, they should be thankful. I'm not saying I don't love my parents because I love them very much. So much, in fact, that for the whole of my life, I've allowed them to be in my life despite their "disappointment" in me. When you do tell them certain things are insulting or hurtful, they tell me I need to get on pills and go see someone. That's when I really laugh...because I know what the deal is...they're never wrong. No amount of tears will change that.
What about people who are only SORT OF toxic? It's usually not an "all or nothing" situation. For instance, though my parents are extremely self centered (honestly, ANYONE who knows them very well realizes this very quickly), they are also witty, interesting, generally fun to be around, artistic, creative, and sentimental. (There is a big difference between sentimental and nurturing though - huge, huge, huge difference.)
Take my childhood for example. They didn't go to my plays, or my open houses, or anything like that. They didn't see a problem with uprooting the family so often that I went to nine schools in eight years. It was so common for me to change schools that my mom just started dropping me off at the front of the school (when I was SEVEN) and telling me, "Oh, just get on in there, through those big doors right there - and go to the office - I'm sure you'll see the sign. I've already called and told them you're coming. And here are your shot and school records - give them to the lady in the office and be sure you pick up the papers I need to sign and bring them home."
The same mother who did that also baked cookies with me on the weekends, took us kids on long nature walks and to all sorts of local exhibits, museums, etc. Did art projects with us kids and encouraged us to write poetry, paint, etc.
See, those are great things to do with kids, and we built a lot of great memories. But also note - those are HER interests. As long as our interests coincide, it's all good.
When they don't - I'm silly or stupid, or she doesn't understand me - or, even better, she takes it as some sort of personal insult or rejection.
AUGH!!!!!!! But for the most part, I'm over that stuff. I just do my own thing, and drive on.
I became Catholic about 15 years ago. This was when we lived in the same town. My mother came to my house, and while I was at work, she got out my Catholic bible, my books on catholicism that I had checked out from the library, etc. and WROTE IN THE MARGINS IN PEN stuff like, "This is bull ****" and "THIS IS A CULT!" and "RIDICULOUS!"
I did score a point on this one though. I made her pay to replace the library books. But I had to pitch a wall eyed fit to get her to do it.
Anyway, my parents aren't all around TOXIC. They are just very self centered. This creates situations where they overstep the boundaries and parameters I have regarding relationships in my life. I don't just have two options - meekly take it or push them out of my life. I do not accept either of those options, because I have another one - which is maintain my parameters but let them know when they've stepped over them. Occasionally -not in a vindictive way, but just in a natural way - I allow them to feel the ramifications of their actions. For instance, I am not going to stop and pick up beer for my dad on the way to his house without being asked - a small favor I've done for him for years. He is going to need to ask me to do it. And when he thinks of asking me, I can ASSURE you that he will remember the last time I asked him to do a favor for me - he's smart that way.
I won't bring it up - but he'll see the connection. That's all I ask - that he sees the connection and that he knows I'm not a damn fool.
By the way - everyone is motivated by something. Some people are motivated by fear, others by competition. Some are motivated by loving that sense of accomplishment, and others are motivated by feeling appreciated. I am motivated by feeling appreciated. My parents know that. Sometimes they do really well at showing me appreciation, they really do - and I just love it. I would move mountains for them when I know they appreciate me - and I know, for instance, that it means a lot to them for me to be with them while they are sick, or to do a project around the house for them.
But sometimes, they just suck at connecting the dots. I guess we all do. I'm sure I've let them down before too.
What I meant by it being largely about the Kindle - meaning you allowed the Kindle scenario to set you off and it dredged up all this other baggage. It was a relatively minor situation that really shouldn't have gotten you all up in arms, IMO.
You have a choice to interact with them as much or as little as you want. You have to accept they aren't going to change and you likely won't either - not without putting some serious work into the relationship. You have to decide if the relationship is important enough for you to work on it.
I set boundaries and when they are crossed I may forgive once or twice depending on the seriousness of the situation. If you have established boundaries and your parents repeatedly cross them, that problem lies with you because you keep allowing it.
As I said before, you cannot change other people, only yourself. You can change how you react to those people.
If you choose to continue a relationship with them, maybe try reading my earlier post after your vacation and visit with your grandchildren! There was nothing there for you to become defensive about.
Amusing that you got through to them when you yelled at them like children. Many older people do become like children. So you learned one way to get through to them. Again, it's your choice if you want to continue a relationship with them and whether or not you choose to work on improving that relationship, and to resolve all that baggage so that something as simple as a Kindle won't set you off.
After reading the last few posts and examples you've given, all I can say is, Kathryn, how you could say that is "sort of" toxic is beyond me. In my world, they would be "uber" toxic!
No way, no how, would I ever tolerate that kind of passive-aggressive b.s. with the chickens comment, or the disrespect with writing in the library books. I mean, it's bad enough that she would write in books like that, but those aren't even yours. Your parents seem certifiable to me.
Same with yours ShellNic. Addressing your mail to your maiden name? Really? Is this junior high and they're on the Petty Squad?
I don't know how either of you could stand that. If my parents were that vicious, I wouldn't shorten my own life dealing with that crap, in plain English. I just wouldn't put myself through it. Takes more to make a family than an accident of birth, as far as I'm concerned.
But I guess we all have our thresholds, and yours are much higher than mine. Wow.
After reading the last few posts and examples you've given, all I can say is, Kathryn, how you could say that is "sort of" toxic is beyond me. In my world, they would be "uber" toxic!
No way, no how, would I ever tolerate that kind of passive-aggressive b.s. with the chickens comment, or the disrespect with writing in the library books. I mean, it's bad enough that she would write in books like that, but those aren't even yours. Your parents seem certifiable to me.
Same with yours ShellNic. Addressing your mail to your maiden name? Really? Is this junior high and they're on the Petty Squad?
I don't know how either of you could stand that. If my parents were that vicious, I wouldn't shorten my own life dealing with that crap, in plain English. I just wouldn't put myself through it. Takes more to make a family than an accident of birth, as far as I'm concerned.
But I guess we all have our thresholds, and yours are much higher than mine. Wow.
Oh, I've definitely had my moments. Each time, I say "what kind of person do I want to be". I don't let their actions dictate what I do, but I'm not perfect and it still ticks me off! Oh yea, you know it does!!
My birthday was last month and the envelope AND check had my maiden name. This is what's funny about that. My maiden is sort of well known in a certain PNW city b/c of the market downtown. I went to this city almost 2 years ago to interview for a fantastic job. My stepmom thought I should name drop during the interview because of this...I told her that I didn't think it was appropriate but if I could work in the fact that I had ties, they wouldn't be so hesitant about hiring an out-of-state candidate.
I didn't get the job. Probably lots of reasons...maybe one...who knows. Anyway, she told me the reason was (cause she's smarter than everyone btw) is because I didn't mention my maiden name. I ended up telling her "hey, that's not me...I used my married name b/c that's who I am". She told me that doesn't count and seriously, has given me grief about it ever since. Not even kidding.
Here's the real kicker: she has NEVER used my dad's name because she's just so darn independent. Every card or letter I've ever sent to her, I respected her wishes and used her maiden name. Until recently...snicker, snicker...I address all cards to her married name.
I know it ticks her off...the freaking nerve of her to say that my married name doesn't count (b/c who cares about my husband), then to say that any woman who takes her husband's name is a loser (her words have emphasized this over the years), then to drop my dad's name on a whim depending on how it benefits her and now, to "mis" writing my own name on my letters. She's a freak and it's hard to keep up. I guess it's good for me that she underestimates me. Who knows?
I'm not that strong so I stay away. Here is where it's really hard though: like Kathryn, my parents ARE interesting, funny, smart...they have many interesting friends and stories...my dad is especially awesome but unfortunately, doesn't get to speak for himself very much...at least not around his own kids. She's freakier about that...
Whatever...it's me, the hubs, the cats. I'm ALL GOOD!!
My birthday was last month and the envelope AND check had my maiden name.
Did you keep/cash the check? I hope not because it sent her the message that it was OK for her to disrespect you like that, and also that money is more important than the name.
I would have marked it Return to Sender and sent it back! Or if handed to me, I would have handed it back.
After reading the last few posts and examples you've given, all I can say is, Kathryn, how you could say that is "sort of" toxic is beyond me. In my world, they would be "uber" toxic!
No way, no how, would I ever tolerate that kind of passive-aggressive b.s. with the chickens comment, or the disrespect with writing in the library books. I mean, it's bad enough that she would write in books like that, but those aren't even yours. Your parents seem certifiable to me.
Same with yours ShellNic. Addressing your mail to your maiden name? Really? Is this junior high and they're on the Petty Squad?
I don't know how either of you could stand that. If my parents were that vicious, I wouldn't shorten my own life dealing with that crap, in plain English. I just wouldn't put myself through it. Takes more to make a family than an accident of birth, as far as I'm concerned.
But I guess we all have our thresholds, and yours are much higher than mine. Wow.
I have a pretty toxic mother. We had an estrangement when I was 24. I reconciled with her when she became active in AA to stop drinking. Second estrangement was 3 years ago. What happens with estrangements from these types is that there's collateral damage. My brother had always been kind of involved in the drama with me and my mother. When he met my SIL, she had recently lost my mother and was very vulnerable to my mother's "I juuuuussst waaaant a cloooserr relationship with my daughter, I looooove her!" This is when I was trying the civil but distant approach with her
As a result, I'm also estranged from bro, SIL and I've never met my niece. I lost my step-dad and step-sister who are pretty nice people, as a result too. My great aunt and I have had some tense moments. And there was some tension between me and one of her healthier cousins as a result.
My mom is estranged from most of her family, so I don't have to worry about her showing up at weddings, funerals, etc. But some people have to deal with that too.
Don't get me wrong, a cut off with my mother was the wisest way to go and in many ways I'm sorry I ever let that toxic piece of work back into my life after the first estrangement. But, estrangement is something which has reprecusssions into the entire family. It's a very difficult place for most people to get to. And it causes a huge amount of grief, pain & anxiety.
I have a pretty toxic mother. We had an estrangement when I was 24. I reconciled with her when she became active in AA to stop drinking. Second estrangement was 3 years ago. What happens with estrangements from these types is that there's collateral damage. My brother had always been kind of involved in the drama with me and my mother. When he met my SIL, she had recently lost my mother and was very vulnerable to my mother's "I juuuuussst waaaant a cloooserr relationship with my daughter, I looooove her!" This is when I was trying the civil but distant approach with her
As a result, I'm also estranged from bro, SIL and I've never met my niece. I lost my step-dad and step-sister who are pretty nice people, as a result too. My great aunt and I have had some tense moments. And there was some tension between me and one of her healthier cousins as a result.
My mom is estranged from most of her family, so I don't have to worry about her showing up at weddings, funerals, etc. But some people have to deal with that too.
Don't get me wrong, a cut off with my mother was the wisest way to go and in many ways I'm sorry I ever let that toxic piece of work back into my life after the first estrangement. But, estrangement is something which has reprecusssions into the entire family. It's a very difficult place for most people to get to. And it causes a huge amount of grief, pain & anxiety.
RIGHT ON. I am NOT willing to throw my entire relationship with my parents out the window - especially when I understand a WHOLE LOT about why they are like they are.
They both had totally - TOTALLY - screwed up childhoods when it comes to their parents. Especially my mother - who was left in charge of her three younger sisters (by her very odd mother) when she was only 9 - and the little toddler got out into the street and was run over by a truck and is permanently brain damaged to this day. Believe me, my mother has her reasons for her emotional issues.
I realized that she was a broken person by the time I was seven years old, and truth be told, from that moment on, I had more sympathy for her than animosity. I always knew that deep down inside, I was stronger and more stable than her. By the time I was about 11, she knew it too, and felt threatened by my ability to be independent. Lord knows I had to be.
I know how to get away from her bizarre behavior - or call her hand on it - or lay down the law. But frankly, I don't want to do that all the time. She is my mother - and she DOES love me. She is not an evil person - she is a defensive, combative person but like I said, I understand why after learning more about her miserable childhood.
It would be cruel of me to cut her out of my life - and it would break my father's heart. He walks a tightrope between knowing what is the right thing to do, and placating his emotionally unstable wife. I had my time of anger toward him, culminating in me demanding to hear from him WHY he didn't feel it was his place to PROTECT his children from a crazy mother. The shame and grief on his face was enough for me. I am fifty years old now. I don't need my daddy to protect me.
I got this. But I reserve the right to express my frustration and disappointment. I don't hold things in. I'll never have an ulcer!
I don't "keep tabs" - in fact, I am sort of slow on the take. Things have to hit me right between the eyes. I mean, when I was lying in ICU nearly dead, with every one of my kids in the hospital as well, it never even occurred to me that SOME parents might think it would be supportive to actually drive four hours to COME SEE IF THEY COULD HELP. I mean, I KNEW my parents wouldn't come - frankly it would have shocked me if they DID come.
We had to catch a BUS home from the hospital. Yes, we were medivacced to a hospital two hours away, and then we had to catch a BUS home, because of course, our car was at the house. Thank God for our church - at least they went and got some groceries for us, or we would have been without food when we got home.
So why I expected them to go five minutes out of their way and drive twenty minutes on the accursed interstate ( a route that would actually get them to my house earlier than the crazy route they take) - well, I must have had an episode of temporary insanity.
Jesus.
This is insane.
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But I had to pitch a wall eyed fit to get her to do it.
