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I did go to Hot Springs with my parents. But I made up my mind that when I got there, I was going to tell them why I initially refused, and how disappointed I was about their "excuse" not to do a small favor to me, since obviously they do drive on interstate highways whenever it suits them.
So, when I got there, after the hugs, I said, "Listen, before we go any further, I need to point something out to you. This may not sound like a big deal to you, but I was really put out about that Kindle thing." As soon as I said it, my mom looked over at my dad in an accusatory way, and my dad said, "I don't want to talk about that!" I said, "But I do. You know I just got in from Virginia and am tired from a big vacation. You know this isn't really good timing for me, and that I would have rather postponed this trip for a few days, at LEAST. But the reason I am here is because this is what families do for each other. You need to make an offer on that house right away, and you want my input - and it's important to you. I know you could do it without me - you're not real estate nincompoops - but I know you want my feedback, so I'm here. It bothered me a lot that you gave me that excuse about the interstate, when I felt that the reality was that you just didn't want to change your usual route or do anything differently than you ever do. I would not have asked you if it wasn't important to me. So here's my point - if I ever ask a favor of you, I want you to realize that the only reason I'm asking it is because it's important to me. You asked a favor of me - not out of real need - but because it was important to you. So we should really think hard before we refuse to do favors for each other."
My mom and dad both reached out and hugged me and my dad said, "I see what you're saying. I felt bad about it but I sure am glad you're here today." My mom said, "I TOLD your dad we needed to go get that thing!"
We had a couple of good days together and after their offer was accepted I helped them pack breakables and family heirlooms up, and everything went smoothly. Both of them were EXTREMELY thankful to me - repeatedly - which I guess was nice, but I'm not kidding myself - I don't expect them to change when they're on the end that is being asked a favor of. That being said, they were also very generous to me out of gratitude, which was touching. My father gave me a piece of art that I've loved my entire life, and my mother gave me my grandmother's china and silver. I was VERY touched by that, considering I wasn't expecting those at all (they don't have room for them where they're going). In fact, we went through the entire house and they decided on all sorts of things to go ahead and give grandchildren and other relatives, and to be honest they seemed relieved at not having to pack all that stuff up!
My dad even gave me his baby shoes and little clothes, and the bible that was used in their wedding, as well as the little bride and groom from the top of their cake! I thought that was very sweet - and an honor actually. I also helped him put together a little shadowbox of things from his childhood and from his parents, and I helped my mom by tagging all the furniture with tags that said what room they are going to in the new house.
We picked out flooring and fencing for their new house and lined up the inspections and contractors.
I'm not bragging - I'm saying that this was precious time spent together and I think me being there helped keep them from being depressed or distraught as they try to downsize for their elder years. I'll be going back up there in a few weeks when they close on the house.
This is better for me too, because I know they will be in a retirement village where immediate needs will be taken care of whether I am there or not. This is a very big relief to me.
All in all, the entire visit was a win-win situation.
I much prefer that to "cutting them out of my life" because they are rather obliviously self centered, Sure that will always bother me about them - and I expect to always BE irritated when I see that behavior (which is likely to become worse as they age). But KARMA KARMA, right? One day I will be old too - and no telling how ornery I will be!
I think the question to ask yourself is how are you going to feel about going out of your way for them the next time they disappoint you? I don't know your situation well enough to know if this is normal family stuff or if it's more toxic. If it's toxic, of course, they can be nice. When they want something. They can be very convincing. It's not unheard of for toxic parents to throw their kids a few bones here and there to keep them around for when they need something.
I think the question to ask yourself is how are you going to feel about going out of your way for them the next time they disappoint you? I don't know your situation well enough to know if this is normal family stuff or if it's more toxic. If it's toxic, of course, they can be nice. When they want something. They can be very convincing. It's not unheard of for toxic parents to throw their kids a few bones here and there to keep them around for when they need something.
Well, they are a potent mixture - I guess that's the best way to put it. They can be very loving and attentive and generous - and then they can just be incredibly blind - I mean, incredibly so.
The bottom line is - they are not going to be inconvenienced, or at least it's rare. If you point it out to them, and lay out a logical and right course of action, sometimes they will alter their course though, but not without a lot of effort.
It's not like they are evil - far from it. In my opinion, this keeps them from being actually toxic, though they have had their spells in the past (which I did not tolerate once I realized the pattern).
However, sometimes navigating through all this is very tiring. I think that if I want a relationship with them, I have to put up with it though. What do you think? I don't see any hope of actually changing them.
Well, they are a potent mixture - I guess that's the best way to put it. They can be very loving and attentive and generous - and then they can just be incredibly blind - I mean, incredibly so.
The bottom line is - they are not going to be inconvenienced, or at least it's rare. If you point it out to them, and lay out a logical and right course of action, sometimes they will alter their course though, but not without a lot of effort.
It's not like they are evil - far from it. In my opinion, this keeps them from being actually toxic, though they have had their spells in the past (which I did not tolerate once I realized the pattern).
However, sometimes navigating through all this is very tiring. I think that if I want a relationship with them, I have to put up with it though. What do you think? I don't see any hope of actually changing them.
I think there's a middle ground between sacrificing for them and resenting it and not having anything to do with them. You could have declined to go on this trip since it wasn't convenient for you. But still keep in touch with them when it's not an inconvenience for you.
I was in limited contact with my mother for a few years before we went no contact. In addition to detaching from the mean/nasty things she said/did, I started detaching from the nice things she did/said because I learned that's the way she would draw me in so she could be nasty to me again. I just stayed civil but distant. I would send cards/gifts on her/my stepdad's birthdays and Christmas. I would speak with her on the phone several times a month and I stopped giving her information about my life to use against me. I stopped making visits to where she lived.
Now, in her case, she didn't accept those basic limits and tried to tell everyone who would listen how she wanted a closer relationship with me. But she'd have a screaming meltdown during pretty much every visit and lots of snide, nasty digs. IMO, her actions spoke the loudest. If you want a closer relationship, you don't scream at someone and take nasty digs. Particularly after they speak to you about it using "I feel" language and ask you not to do it anymore. Which I had.
But if you have a parent who is willing to respect those limits, it might work well.
Again, I think the key is to ask yourself if you slip up and expect something from them (we all slip up with these things, it take time to learn new behavior), will you still be glad you did this or will you be resentful? That's where I think you'll find your answer on how much you should do.
I think there's a middle ground between sacrificing for them and resenting it and not having anything to do with them. You could have declined to go on this trip since it wasn't convenient for you. But still keep in touch with them when it's not an inconvenience for you.
I was in limited contact with my mother for a few years before we went no contact. In addition to detaching from the mean/nasty things she said/did, I started detaching from the nice things she did/said because I learned that's the way she would draw me in so she could be nasty to me again. I just stayed civil but distant. I would send cards/gifts on her/my stepdad's birthdays and Christmas. I would speak with her on the phone several times a month and I stopped giving her information about my life to use against me. I stopped making visits to where she lived.
Now, in her case, she didn't accept those basic limits and tried to tell everyone who would listen how she wanted a closer relationship with me. But she'd have a screaming meltdown during pretty much every visit and lots of snide, nasty digs. IMO, her actions spoke the loudest. If you want a closer relationship, you don't scream at someone and take nasty digs. Particularly after they speak to you about it using "I feel" language and ask you not to do it anymore. Which I had.
But if you have a parent who is willing to respect those limits, it might work well.
Again, I think the key is to ask yourself if you slip up and expect something from them (we all slip up with these things, it take time to learn new behavior), will you still be glad you did this or will you be resentful? That's where I think you'll find your answer on how much you should do.
Right on. I TOTALLY agree with what you're saying.
In the past, my parents, particularly my mom, have gotten completely out of control and all up in my personal business. I had to do the "extrication process" with them. Once I went nearly a year without speaking to my mother, or visiting my parents (I did speak to my dad from time to time, but I told him that if he was going to sit in silence while my mother ranted at me, or threw books at me, then I was not going to visit their house and that was part of the price he pays for his complacency).
I did manage to get my mother under control, for the most part. Our relationship has been a lot better since then. She knows I will simply get up and go home - or even tell her to get out of my house - if she gets out of control. I've done it and I'll do it again. I'm not going to tolerate abuse or ridiculousness from anyone ever again.
This is why I find it ironic that a few people on this thread are convinced that I don't understand the first thing about setting boundaries. I HAVE set boundaries with my parents, and part of my dismay and surprise over the Kindle incident stemmed from realizing that though these boundaries are set and defined, sometimes we STILL have to reinforce them - and that's always going to be unpleasant.
But to me it's worth it to maintain a mutually beneficial relationship with my parents. I do not want to cut them out of my life, nor do I ever intend to do so. So I have to learn - and relearn - how to navigate around them.
"Life's a dance you learn as you go - sometimes you lead, and sometimes you follow."
I think there's a middle ground between sacrificing for them and resenting it and not having anything to do with them. You could have declined to go on this trip since it wasn't convenient for you. But still keep in touch with them when it's not an inconvenience for you.
I was in limited contact with my mother for a few years before we went no contact. In addition to detaching from the mean/nasty things she said/did, I started detaching from the nice things she did/said because I learned that's the way she would draw me in so she could be nasty to me again. I just stayed civil but distant. I would send cards/gifts on her/my stepdad's birthdays and Christmas. I would speak with her on the phone several times a month and I stopped giving her information about my life to use against me. I stopped making visits to where she lived.
Now, in her case, she didn't accept those basic limits and tried to tell everyone who would listen how she wanted a closer relationship with me. But she'd have a screaming meltdown during pretty much every visit and lots of snide, nasty digs. IMO, her actions spoke the loudest. If you want a closer relationship, you don't scream at someone and take nasty digs. Particularly after they speak to you about it using "I feel" language and ask you not to do it anymore. Which I had.
But if you have a parent who is willing to respect those limits, it might work well.
Again, I think the key is to ask yourself if you slip up and expect something from them (we all slip up with these things, it take time to learn new behavior), will you still be glad you did this or will you be resentful? That's where I think you'll find your answer on how much you should do.
I could have written this.
I just wanted to post to let you know how much your insight has meant to me.
Just b/c I have not added to this discussion - it doesn't mean I haven't learned from it. I haven't posted b/c the things you have written were basically my thoughts.
I feel for Kathryn on many levels. It is very difficult to deal with our own ideals of wanting to be a "good adult daughter" while still realizing the issues our parents have as human beings, and how they have assigned roles to us, often roles that are not fair and are not even based on reality.
I also know what it is like to deal with a mother who is not basically nurturing, yet throws out the dog bones to suck us back in - then seems to take great delight in tearing us down. It is a mysterious phenomena and very upsetting. The unwarranted criticisms are especially hurtful.
Setting boundaries with these folks is nearly impossible, as they turn things around on a dime, play emotional games, draw others into the drama, and are constantly splitting relatonships so that everyone is at cross purposes. My mother is 82 and the youngest of 11 siblings. The sad part of that is - my cousins have discussed w/ me for decades the situations they have with their parents and as incredible as it may sound, we have all been dealing with the same basic dysfunction our entire lives. And their parents are older than my mom - ranging into their late 90s.
My parents can be a lot of fun and even entertaining to be around . . . and then my mother will flip out over nothing, becoming critical, mean spirited and engaging in bullying behavior. Sadly, her grandchildren avoid her b/c they never know what they will get.
We used to say "when she is good, she is very very good; and when she is bad, she is hell."
Learning to work WITH that and AROUND that and maintain an even keel emotionally is very difficult.
I love my parents, but I don't really like my mother and never have. Sad to say, but it is the truth. We do not view the world the same and she spends her time mocking others, being condescending, but usually behind their backs. I decided when I was about 15 that my mother had stopped developing, emotionally, at about 12. I still believe that. She is what would today be termed "a mean girl." I don't know any other way to explain it. She has a public persona but in private, she is just plain mean. And my father has enabled it.
So to Kathryn, I wish you nothing but the best as I know how hard it is to process all the conflicting messages and how much you want to have good times and good memories with your parents. I also know you want to be helpful to them and be "a good daughter." It is a helluva tightrope to walk.
I wish you only the best.
PS. I also wanted to add: to those who have insinuated that your attempts to stay on good terms with your parents are b/c you are afraid you will be written out of the will --- HA! My parents are well set, too. My only hope is that they will have enough resources (and they should) to take care of themselves, i.e. if they need to go into assisted living at some point, or nursing home care. I do not expect to get a PENNY and my middle sister has already managed to get her hands on anything of real value as far as personal possessions (waterford crystal, sterling, antiques, etc - she is the "golden child"). As far as cash, I just want them to have enough to live abundant lives til they die. I thought those insinuations were just plain downright mean spirited and wondered if those folks were merely projecting what THEIR motivations would have been to try to keep the relationship with their parents on a positive note.
I read often on my iPad, but if it is not handy then the same books cn be read on my phone. When I pick the iPad back up, it automatically turns to the page I left off on.
My dad would bring my iPad to me and would not be up set at all. But we have a very tight relationship. It is rare for me not o see my parents daily. My dad will still bring me lunch at work, walks my dogs during the day, or anything else. But as I said we have a close relationship and I often reciprocate favors to my parents as well.
If I were you, I would download the kindle app on your phone to get you by until you can get your kindle.
OP, when you ask someone to do something, they have the right to say no. In fact, you should expect the possibility of a no, if you don't expect it, then really you aren't truly asking. You are being manipulative. The other thing I want to point out is that it is not normal nor healthy for a 50 year old woman to be walking around with so many anecdotes proving what terrible parents she has. It is downright bizarre and incredibly immature. If they aren't so bad you have to cut ties with them, stop filing these anecdotes into your mental library and dragging them out for the world when they suit furthering your point of view. It is unseemly and immature, the sort of thing that teens do.
OP, when you ask someone to do something, they have the right to say no. In fact, you should expect the possibility of a no, if you don't expect it, then really you aren't truly asking. You are being manipulative. The other thing I want to point out is that it is not normal nor healthy for a 50 year old woman to be walking around with so many anecdotes proving what terrible parents she has. It is downright bizarre and incredibly immature. If they aren't so bad you have to cut ties with them, stop filing these anecdotes into your mental library and dragging them out for the world when they suit furthering your point of view. It is unseemly and immature, the sort of thing that teens do.
Wow, wonder what kind of abusive parent you are or how much abuse you accept to post this type of statement.
Wow, wonder what kind of abusive parent you are or how much abuse you accept to post this type of statement.
hmm, I didn't read anything close to that tone in the post!
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