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Old 09-27-2012, 07:31 AM
 
Location: stuck
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i certainly have sympathy for her. and her family. most people who recreationally use drugs don't plan on killing themselves. just want to have a good time for that particular night. i know this because I was one of them in college. i experimented with alot different crap as a younger guy. E being one of the things I tried. I only did it a few times, and not to sound graphic, but i snorted a large dose of it one night in college and almost died. i was choking on my own vomit for hours. somehow woke up after finally passing out for several hours. that **** is dangerous. you never know whats actually it it. traces of heroin, pcp, who knows what else...i never did it again after that.
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Old 09-27-2012, 07:38 AM
 
Location: North Shore Long Island
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
^^^ I agree with this. Most people have never been molested in their lives and they turn to drugs and alcohol for recreation and to relieve boredom.

So are you thinking that the majority of people attending raves have been molested or abused?

As to the original question, well having sympathy is like any other emotion. When we feel it, each case is different and so of course there are varying degrees of intensity of how we are struck by the situation. So my answer would be that I would be feeling much less sympathy for anyone at all dying from ecstasy (or crack) rather than them dying from a completely random occurrence (crushed by a tree in a windstorm).

And if it was that teenage girl's first time ever taking ecstasy, I would feel more badly for her than if she went to raves frequently with her friends.

And yes, if someone is diabetic due to being morbidly obese because of their overeating or drinking too much soda, I really don't have any sympathy at all for their medical issues. Just last night, I worked with a really obese black woman and every time she was thirsty, she helped herself to a juice from the juice machine despite that the liquid dispensed was really concentrated and sweet (so that she commented on it) and didn't take my suggestion of some adding water to her cup. That woman should have been drinking plain water instead.

I am also not going to feel sympathetic towards a drunk driver who kills themselves, any crack or heroin addict, or cigarette smoker with lung cancer, or alcoholic who needs a new liver, or a slacker/lazy person who gets fired or laid off and can't find another job. Life doesn't owe you anything. It's all about cause and effect. You knowing ingest a substance that is known to be bad for your body, and bad things will happen to you.

BTW there are so many reasons why drugs like ecstasy, crack and heroin are illegal substances. And it's no secret that those drugs are really bad for you and addictive. It's no secret that alcohol abuse and cigarette smoking is bad for you and that nicotine is addictive. It's no secret that overeating leads to obesity and that too much sugar leads to diabetes.

Life is too short, and we each have only one life to live... why can't everyone cherish their own lives and live them with commonsense??? It's not rocket science people!!!

It's easy to preach when you're not the one dealing with the physical addiction.

As a parent, I just pray that we do our job to turn our kids off on drugs so that they never ever have the desire to even try any of it. And when it comes to alcohol, I only hope we can teach them how to drink responsibly.
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Old 09-27-2012, 08:57 AM
miu
 
Location: MA/NH
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Originally Posted by TheImportersWife View Post
It's easy to preach when you're not the one dealing with the physical addiction.

As a parent, I just pray that we do our job to turn our kids off on drugs so that they never ever have the desire to even try any of it. And when it comes to alcohol, I only hope we can teach them how to drink responsibly.
Be that as it may, but it still doesn't change my answer to the original question. I just don't feel any sympathy for anyone who takes drugs like E. I am a very rational person and I don't think that life owes me endless highs. I can easily go for months without touching a drop of alcohol, even if it were free. I don't know why I am the way I am, but it doesn't make me a villain for not feeling sympathy towards those who take illegal drugs or who abuse alcohol or overeat.

I'm just being (and I guess brutally) honest. And I don't think that I'm being preachy if I am just answering the question. I also don't see why I have to make myself feel any differently. Shrug.

And BTW I know several people who were able to stop smoking cold turkey and without nicotine patches or hypnosis. One day, they just decided that smoking wasn't for them. So their method was using mind over matter. And alcoholism runs in my bf's family, but he makes a conscious effort to drink sparingly and in moderation. So why should I feel sorry for the weak in spirit? And maybe it's Darwinism in action that only the strong survive. It's only natural and evolution to weed out the less capable and the weak.
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Old 09-27-2012, 09:58 AM
 
2,890 posts, read 5,392,057 times
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Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
I have zero sympathy for any moron who does X or whatever and then dies.
The toddler that would have grown up to be my uncle died from an infection that resulted from a bean that he pushed up his nose.

No sympathy, eh?
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Old 09-27-2012, 10:07 AM
 
2,890 posts, read 5,392,057 times
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Originally Posted by TheImportersWife View Post
We're discussing sympathy for those who died based on the "choices" they made in life, so I don't see where the death of a 2 year old comes into play in this discussion?
A 2 year old is child, a 15 year old is a child. Whether a child dies of some tragic disease or a poor choice, it's still a child and is equally as sad.

An adult that makes poor choices is informed, not just by fact and figures, but by the experiences of life.
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Old 09-27-2012, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
1,545 posts, read 2,287,057 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerseygal4u View Post
We don't even know why she took drugs.

What if she was getting molested at home?

I'm just shocked that so many Christians on here don't feel any sympathy.
Didn't you read the post where RomaniGypsy said Jesus was an assh0!e?

I've knew a lot of drug users growing up but no one died. Thankfully there was nothing appealing about hard drugs, first and foremost the financial cost, but otherwise anecdotal evidence would suggest drugs aren't that dangerous at all.

Keep in mind the disproportionate anti-marijuana propoganda hammered at kids when they see people around them everywhere smoking it with no easily apparent ill-effects.

Ecstasy pills are manufactured and distributed by the millions so I wonder how many deaths there are proportionate to usage.
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Old 09-27-2012, 10:40 AM
 
8,018 posts, read 6,603,146 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
Be that as it may, but it still doesn't change my answer to the original question. I just don't feel any sympathy for anyone who takes drugs like E. I am a very rational person and I don't think that life owes me endless highs. I can easily go for months without touching a drop of alcohol, even if it were free. I don't know why I am the way I am, but it doesn't make me a villain for not feeling sympathy towards those who take illegal drugs or who abuse alcohol or overeat.

I'm just being (and I guess brutally) honest. And I don't think that I'm being preachy if I am just answering the question. I also don't see why I have to make myself feel any differently. Shrug.

And BTW I know several people who were able to stop smoking cold turkey and without nicotine patches or hypnosis. One day, they just decided that smoking wasn't for them. So their method was using mind over matter. And alcoholism runs in my bf's family, but he makes a conscious effort to drink sparingly and in moderation. So why should I feel sorry for the weak in spirit? And maybe it's Darwinism in action that only the strong survive. It's only natural and evolution to weed out the less capable and the weak.
I knew it wouldn't be long before someone brings up the "social darwinism" argument. Let me ask you something, who do you think is doing most of the breeding in this country? Is it the "strong and the educated", or the "weak and ignorant"?
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Old 09-27-2012, 11:26 AM
 
Location: I live wherever I am.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheImportersWife View Post
It breaks my heart. I always wonder how did they start with drugs to begin with? What lead them down that path of self destruction? I know how hard it was to kick my Pepsi habit, I can only imagine how difficult it must be to try and kick a drug habit.

Last month my husband ended up in the ER. The bed along side us was occupied by a young girl (early 20s) who had overdosed on heroin. I give the EMTs, nurses and MDs credit because they didn't judge her. They only wished and hoped for the best for her, but sadly they're all well too aware of what her future holds. Her parents arrived and my heart went out to them. I know damn well that that young girl doesn't want to be an addict and I know damn well that's not where her parents imagined where her life would take her.


My husband's ex-wife passed away last month at the age of 45 from an aggressive form of lung cancer due to smoking. Does she deserve less sympathy because of the choice she made to smoke?
If you're going to ask a question, you're going to get answers but I guarantee that they won't always be the answers you want.

She does deserve less sympathy because she chose to smoke. For decades, cigarette packages have carried surgeon generals warnings stating, in plain English, things like "Cigarette smoking causes cancer, emphysema, and heart disease." Cigarette advertisements carry the same warnings. EVERYONE knows smoking is bad for you. Yes, it's addictive. But, the addiction can be broken. There have been plenty of people who've done it... I have some in my family.

I also have people in my family who have died from smoking... so I'm not just preaching from a standpoint of never having experienced it to an extent in my own life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerseygal4u View Post
Well,let's twist it around.

What if she became obese and died from an obesity related illness?
Would you still say you don't have sympathy for her when she chose to overeat?
Her body,her choice right?

I think some like to cherry pick who they feel sympathy for,esp when it comes to drugs and alcohol.
I also wouldn't have sympathy.

Which, if you have read my other posts, might sound pretty bad given that my wife is a really big woman.

Luckily for her, she is in excellent health by all measurable factors. She knows that her family history is one that is fraught with health issues, including bad knees and breast cancer... two things easily exacerbated by obesity. I bring that up to her every once in a while, but I can't make her lose weight. I really don't care if she loses weight or not, as long as she's healthy. If I knew that she would never have bad knees or breast cancer or whatever, I wouldn't care if she never lost an ounce.

If she ends up in a wheelchair due to bad knees later on, I will push her around and do whatever I have to do to help her, but I will retain the standpoint that it was an end she chose for herself... or at least didn't try to avoid.

I don't live by double standards. If we live dangerously and we're already aware of the risks, there is no sympathy for those who suffer those risks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerseygal4u View Post
We don't even know why she took drugs.

What if she was getting molested at home?

I'm just shocked that so many Christians on here don't feel any sympathy.
I feel sympathy for the pain that the girl was feeling. Heaven knows, I understand pain... and I know that the teenage years are generally the most painful of all. Society, peers, etc.... they can be unrelenting and vicious. From ages 10 through 15, I got picked on, mercilessly, by my peers. I can't possibly convince anyone of how awful that experience was, if they didn't go through it to an extent themselves. It was so bad that I was constantly in the guidance counselor's office... I would cry every Sunday night because I knew I'd have to suffer through another week of school... and I wound up in detention numerous times for beating up kids who picked on me (because I lacked the wit and pop-culture knowledge to battle them verbally). It was hell on earth, to be sure.

But in spite of that, I didn't engage in risky behaviors such as smoking, drinking, drug use, etc... simply because I understood the risks and I chose to avoid them. It all worked out in the end, when some of my ex-peers told me (when we were 17) that I was basically the only one out of the graduating class of 66 people who hadn't gotten screwed up by that time. Who'd-a thunk it? The guy everyone picked on, became the most well-adjusted one of the bunch while those who did the picking-on became smokers, druggies, teenage parents, prison inmates, etc? Wow.

The moral of the story is that you don't need to engage in self-destructive behaviors just because you get torn down every day by your society, peers, etc. You have very little control over what other people do to you. (The reason why I beat up the bullies sometimes, in spite of the threat of punishment, was because it was the only control I could really exercise over that situation, to reduce the painful experiences. I preferred a detention if it meant that who knows how many kids would get off my back because they were afraid of getting beaten up.) However, you have control over what you do and say to yourself. Bullies don't force drugs down your throat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowMotionApocalypse View Post
Didn't you read the post where RomaniGypsy said Jesus was an assh0!e?
Funny. I didn't read anything of the kind, nor post anything of the kind. We must be living in parallel universes.

Don't take my word for what Jesus did or who Jesus was / is. Read the Bible. You'll get more information there than I could hope to give you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ro2113 View Post
I knew it wouldn't be long before someone brings up the "social darwinism" argument. Let me ask you something, who do you think is doing most of the breeding in this country? Is it the "strong and the educated", or the "weak and ignorant"?
We all know the answer to that question.

But we also know WHY they're doing most of the breeding. It's because the system enables them and subsidizes them. There's a reason why we're all told not to feed stray cats... it's because they'll reproduce.
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Old 09-27-2012, 12:26 PM
 
8,018 posts, read 6,603,146 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RomaniGypsy View Post
If you're going to ask a question, you're going to get answers but I guarantee that they won't always be the answers you want.

She does deserve less sympathy because she chose to smoke. For decades, cigarette packages have carried surgeon generals warnings stating, in plain English, things like "Cigarette smoking causes cancer, emphysema, and heart disease." Cigarette advertisements carry the same warnings. EVERYONE knows smoking is bad for you. Yes, it's addictive. But, the addiction can be broken. There have been plenty of people who've done it... I have some in my family.

I also have people in my family who have died from smoking... so I'm not just preaching from a standpoint of never having experienced it to an extent in my own life.



I also wouldn't have sympathy.

Which, if you have read my other posts, might sound pretty bad given that my wife is a really big woman.

Luckily for her, she is in excellent health by all measurable factors. She knows that her family history is one that is fraught with health issues, including bad knees and breast cancer... two things easily exacerbated by obesity. I bring that up to her every once in a while, but I can't make her lose weight. I really don't care if she loses weight or not, as long as she's healthy. If I knew that she would never have bad knees or breast cancer or whatever, I wouldn't care if she never lost an ounce.

If she ends up in a wheelchair due to bad knees later on, I will push her around and do whatever I have to do to help her, but I will retain the standpoint that it was an end she chose for herself... or at least didn't try to avoid.

I don't live by double standards. If we live dangerously and we're already aware of the risks, there is no sympathy for those who suffer those risks.



I feel sympathy for the pain that the girl was feeling. Heaven knows, I understand pain... and I know that the teenage years are generally the most painful of all. Society, peers, etc.... they can be unrelenting and vicious. From ages 10 through 15, I got picked on, mercilessly, by my peers. I can't possibly convince anyone of how awful that experience was, if they didn't go through it to an extent themselves. It was so bad that I was constantly in the guidance counselor's office... I would cry every Sunday night because I knew I'd have to suffer through another week of school... and I wound up in detention numerous times for beating up kids who picked on me (because I lacked the wit and pop-culture knowledge to battle them verbally). It was hell on earth, to be sure.

But in spite of that, I didn't engage in risky behaviors such as smoking, drinking, drug use, etc... simply because I understood the risks and I chose to avoid them. It all worked out in the end, when some of my ex-peers told me (when we were 17) that I was basically the only one out of the graduating class of 66 people who hadn't gotten screwed up by that time. Who'd-a thunk it? The guy everyone picked on, became the most well-adjusted one of the bunch while those who did the picking-on became smokers, druggies, teenage parents, prison inmates, etc? Wow.

The moral of the story is that you don't need to engage in self-destructive behaviors just because you get torn down every day by your society, peers, etc. You have very little control over what other people do to you. (The reason why I beat up the bullies sometimes, in spite of the threat of punishment, was because it was the only control I could really exercise over that situation, to reduce the painful experiences. I preferred a detention if it meant that who knows how many kids would get off my back because they were afraid of getting beaten up.) However, you have control over what you do and say to yourself. Bullies don't force drugs down your throat.



Funny. I didn't read anything of the kind, nor post anything of the kind. We must be living in parallel universes.

Don't take my word for what Jesus did or who Jesus was / is. Read the Bible. You'll get more information there than I could hope to give you.



We all know the answer to that question.

But we also know WHY they're doing most of the breeding. It's because the system enables them and subsidizes them. There's a reason why we're all told not to feed stray cats... it's because they'll reproduce.
Ah, yes blame the system, meanwhile there are other countries with little to no social safety net that have the same issues.
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Old 09-27-2012, 12:56 PM
 
Location: North Shore Long Island
7,752 posts, read 14,417,885 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RomaniGypsy View Post
...


I also wouldn't have sympathy.

Which, if you have read my other posts, might sound pretty bad given that my wife is a really big woman.

Luckily for her, she is in excellent health by all measurable factors. She knows that her family history is one that is fraught with health issues, including bad knees and breast cancer... two things easily exacerbated by obesity. I bring that up to her every once in a while, but I can't make her lose weight. I really don't care if she loses weight or not, as long as she's healthy. If I knew that she would never have bad knees or breast cancer or whatever, I wouldn't care if she never lost an ounce.

If she ends up in a wheelchair due to bad knees later on, I will push her around and do whatever I have to do to help her, but I will retain the standpoint that it was an end she chose for herself... or at least didn't try to avoid.

I don't live by double standards. If we live dangerously and we're already aware of the risks, there is no sympathy for those who suffer those risks.
Big??? I thought I read that she was around 400lbs, but I could be mistaken. If I'm not mistaken, then you're in denial if you truly believe she's healthy.

Hopefully you don't have children because they'll be the ones feeling the pain and impact the most.



Quote:
Originally Posted by RomaniGypsy View Post
I feel sympathy for the pain that the girl was feeling. Heaven knows, I understand pain... and I know that the teenage years are generally the most painful of all. Society, peers, etc.... they can be unrelenting and vicious. From ages 10 through 15, I got picked on, mercilessly, by my peers. I can't possibly convince anyone of how awful that experience was, if they didn't go through it to an extent themselves. It was so bad that I was constantly in the guidance counselor's office... I would cry every Sunday night because I knew I'd have to suffer through another week of school... and I wound up in detention numerous times for beating up kids who picked on me (because I lacked the wit and pop-culture knowledge to battle them verbally). It was hell on earth, to be sure.

But in spite of that, I didn't engage in risky behaviors such as smoking, drinking, drug use, etc... simply because I understood the risks and I chose to avoid them. It all worked out in the end, when some of my ex-peers told me (when we were 17) that I was basically the only one out of the graduating class of 66 people who hadn't gotten screwed up by that time. Who'd-a thunk it? The guy everyone picked on, became the most well-adjusted one of the bunch while those who did the picking-on became smokers, druggies, teenage parents, prison inmates, etc? Wow.
Could it be that you didn't engage in those things because you had no to few friends? What about your parents influence on you?




Quote:
Originally Posted by RomaniGypsy View Post

The moral of the story is that you don't need to engage in self-destructive behaviors just because you get torn down every day by your society, peers, etc. You have very little control over what other people do to you. (The reason why I beat up the bullies sometimes, in spite of the threat of punishment, was because it was the only control I could really exercise over that situation, to reduce the painful experiences. I preferred a detention if it meant that who knows how many kids would get off my back because they were afraid of getting beaten up.) However, you have control over what you do and say to yourself. Bullies don't force drugs down your throat.

Why were you picked on?

I think you're underestimating some people's home environment and how it influences them at a young age.
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