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Old 10-07-2012, 05:24 PM
 
679 posts, read 1,047,717 times
Reputation: 1111

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow Jacket View Post
So cutting racists out of her life is a bad decision? Since when was that the case?
If they are definitely still racists, then yes, I agree with you, they don't deserve to be part of their grandson's life, especially since they're prejudiced against part of their own grandchild's background. They will only hurt their grandchild, just as they've hurt their daughter and son-in-law. But if it's possible they've really changed their thinking on being racists, then it may be a good idea to give them a chance, but go slow to be sure they've really changed on both the racism and the manipulation.

If they expect insta-forgiveness and full access to their grandson (time alone with him), then that's a big red flag. They should be willing to apologize for the pain they caused and show how they've changed and make amends.
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Old 10-07-2012, 05:41 PM
 
3,967 posts, read 4,588,800 times
Reputation: 3656
Quote:
Originally Posted by exscapegoat View Post
If they are definitely still racists, then yes, I agree with you, they don't deserve to be part of their grandson's life, especially since they're prejudiced against part of their own grandchild's background. They will only hurt their grandchild, just as they've hurt their daughter and son-in-law. But if it's possible they've really changed their thinking on being racists, then it may be a good idea to give them a chance, but go slow to be sure they've really changed on both the racism and the manipulation.

If they expect insta-forgiveness and full access to their grandson (time alone with him), then that's a big red flag. They should be willing to apologize for the pain they caused and show how they've changed and make amends.
I disagree. They would be done period with me. The child really won't be that affected by that and when he can understand her reasoning. I'm sure he will appreciate it.
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Old 10-07-2012, 05:53 PM
 
679 posts, read 1,047,717 times
Reputation: 1111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow Jacket View Post
I disagree. They would be done period with me. The child really won't be that affected by that and when he can understand her reasoning. I'm sure he will appreciate it.
And that's a perfectly valid choice I can understand and respect. My opinion with this tends to be tempered a bit by my experience with my step-family on my dad's side. My step-mom did change her views and I think my SSIL was extremely gracious to accept that change without any hard feelings on her part (SSIL is black, rest of step-family is white).

But then again, my step-mom never went to the extreme of cutting off my step-brother & SSIL. She traveled out of town to their wedding and hosted a gathering in our home area for anyone who couldn't make it to the wedding. So while she wasn't 100% supportive of the relationship because of racism, she did do the basics one would expect a parent to do for the child's wedding, such as attend it without protest. The OP's parents didn't so I can see why that's different. I hope they truly have changed but their concern about wanting to "bury the hatchet" (which implies the OP had something to do with a disagreement caused by their stupidity) and "move on as a family" (meaning they don't face the consequences of their actions) would have me very wary too.
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Old 10-07-2012, 09:39 PM
 
Location: Up above the world so high!
45,270 posts, read 88,302,020 times
Reputation: 39844
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
I disagree vehemently.

My parents were never intentionally racist in thought or in action, but looking back over my childhood and family history, I see some racism. Not awful, blatant racism, but just some outdated "pre civil rights" types of ideas.

When I was in college, I began dating a black guy. My parents and relatives were APPALLED and as we became more serious, they were adamantly opposed - begging me to reconsider, crying, pleading, kicking me out of the house, the whole nine yards.

Well, we got married anyway, and a few months later I was pregnant.

The minute I became pregnant, my parents and extended family did an about face. Over the next eleven years, we had four children together, and my family has loved them (and me) with great enthusiasm. (My now -ex husband and I divorced after eleven years of marriage, but they accepted him as well while we were married.)

They are incredibly proud of their grandkids (and now great grandkids) and their house is filled with photos. My dad is very big into keeping up with old friends and family online, and he is always sending out photos, updates, etc of all the grandkids and great grandkids.

My parents have been terrific grandparents and my kids and grandkids are crazy about them. If I had held onto resentment, everyone would have missed out.

Here's a recent photo of my parents with the youngest great grandbaby - my dad was telling a funny story, while my mom laughed and the baby took it all in!



Here are three happy generations - my mom, my daughter, and one of the grandbabies:



I encourage the OP to give everyone this opportunity!

Parenthood isn't easy. We all make mistakes. Be generous and positive - and forgiving. That doesn't mean "put up with rude or hurtful behavior." It just means be open to opportunities for repairing and building relationships.

What an awesome story and what fantastic pictures!!!!!

YES, you "get it" because you have lived it.

All most of us are trying to tell our OP is to give it a shot.

Yes her parents hurt her and wronged her, but if they are truly sorry and want to start over, this could be a wonderful thing for her entire family.

Babies DO have a way of bringing estranged families back together, and that is a very good thing

I am hopeful our young OP will find it to be a good thing in the long run too.
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Old 10-07-2012, 09:46 PM
 
Location: California
30,513 posts, read 33,327,796 times
Reputation: 25987
People also need to remember we are only hearing one side of this story so being too adamant about cutting parents (and I assume extended family because how else could you do that?) should be tempered. You don't know anyone on the internet.
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Old 10-08-2012, 06:25 AM
 
Location: Dallas
5,599 posts, read 4,905,054 times
Reputation: 16440
Quote:
Originally Posted by imcurious View Post
Forgiveness is the key to happiness. Embrace them and move forward. Put the hard feelings aside. Pretend it never happened. They grew, you grew and you are growing a baby. All is well in the world.
Beautiful advice. Follow it. It will be a blessing for the child to have another set of grandparents in its life.
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Old 10-08-2012, 09:00 AM
 
679 posts, read 1,047,717 times
Reputation: 1111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceece View Post
People also need to remember we are only hearing one side of this story so being too adamant about cutting parents (and I assume extended family because how else could you do that?) should be tempered. You don't know anyone on the internet.
The PARENTS CUT OFF THEIR DAUGHTER. The daughter is not cutting off her parents, she's considering whether she should accept the overture to reconcile. One where beyond saying they were stupid (refer to first post), they have not acknowledged the pain they've caused her by disowning her or asked what they can do to make amends. They want to "bury the hatchet" (implying she's got some sort of equal responsibility for their stupid and cruel decision to disown her) and "move on as a family" Having dealt with all sort of manipulative family members, I can guess this is likely a translation for "no consequences for our actions or we'll act out again."

When you cut someone off, you don't get automatic, full and instant access to them by deciding you want to reconcile with them. Cutting someone off only requires one party to want the cut off. Reconciling requires all parties want to reconcile. Sadly some people will use reconciling to get more access to abuse someone. Her parents were manipulative in the past, disowned her and missed her wedding. She's wise to not automatically reconcile with them.

It wouldn't surprise me if they got offended by the OP taking them back, but wanting to go slowly. I hope I'm wrong, but most manipulative people think a half-a**ed apology should earn them an unlimited pass to anything they want.

The OP is dealing with 2 different questions:

1) Have her parents changed their racist views? As my own step-family and various other stories here prove, yes people can change and will make the most of people giving them chances

2) Have her parents changed their manipulative ways? My experience has been manipulative people don't change their ways. And that a parent who uses a cut-off on you once as punishment will do it again.

The possibility of her parents using a cut off again as punishment isn't something the OP should take lightly. Because next time around, if there is a next time, it's not just going to be her that's hurt by them, her husband and son (and any other children they may have), are going to be affected too. I know as a daughter cut off by her mother twice, it's very painful. I'm childfree, so I didn't have to worry about explaining to my kids why grandma cut us off. I can only imagine that explaining grandma and grandpa on mom's side don't want to see their grandkids must be even more painful than what I went through. I'm not married, so I can only imagine how painful it must be to see a forgiving, compassionate husband cut off by his parents-in-law.

A happy family reunion is a possibility, but so is a second cut off. A third possibility is the parents trying to use the reconciliation as access to abuse and control their daughter and her family. Which is why many of us are advising a slow, cautious manner of proceeding.

Btw, after the first cut off, I let my mother back in her life when she wrote me a letter saying she was going to AA. I never even got an apology, but being the good daughter and wanting to support her sobriety, I took her back without any conditions (an earlier attempt on her part had been met with a "let's meet with a family therapist on my part). I mistakenly thought it was the alcohol and things would be better. But she still screamed and raged at me for no reason (this was in my 30s and 40s) until she decided to cut me off for setting some reasonable boundaries. Which is what caused the first cut off (apparently asking not to be screamed and cursed at on the phone is an unreasonable boundary).

I followed the advice to just welcome her back, etc. It bit me in the butt and then kicked me in the butt. I'm sorry I ever fell for the reconciling after the first cut off. I wish I would have at least insisted on an apology and moving slowly. It would have saved me another decade plus of emotional/verbal abuse and aggravation. I feel this way as a single, childfree woman. I'd feel even more strongly if I had a husband and/or children who suffered from that decision.

Reconciliation isn't always the way to go. I saw a saying on Facebook "Giving some people a second chance is like giving them more bullets for their gun because they missed you the first time."

I'm not saying don't give them a 2nd chance, but just make sure they don't have any more bullets!

Last edited by exscapegoat; 10-08-2012 at 09:14 AM..
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Old 10-08-2012, 10:08 AM
 
3,967 posts, read 4,588,800 times
Reputation: 3656
Quote:
Originally Posted by exscapegoat View Post
The PARENTS CUT OFF THEIR DAUGHTER. The daughter is not cutting off her parents, she's considering whether she should accept the overture to reconcile. One where beyond saying they were stupid (refer to first post), they have not acknowledged the pain they've caused her by disowning her or asked what they can do to make amends. They want to "bury the hatchet" (implying she's got some sort of equal responsibility for their stupid and cruel decision to disown her) and "move on as a family" Having dealt with all sort of manipulative family members, I can guess this is likely a translation for "no consequences for our actions or we'll act out again."

When you cut someone off, you don't get automatic, full and instant access to them by deciding you want to reconcile with them. Cutting someone off only requires one party to want the cut off. Reconciling requires all parties want to reconcile. Sadly some people will use reconciling to get more access to abuse someone. Her parents were manipulative in the past, disowned her and missed her wedding. She's wise to not automatically reconcile with them.

It wouldn't surprise me if they got offended by the OP taking them back, but wanting to go slowly. I hope I'm wrong, but most manipulative people think a half-a**ed apology should earn them an unlimited pass to anything they want.

The OP is dealing with 2 different questions:

1) Have her parents changed their racist views? As my own step-family and various other stories here prove, yes people can change and will make the most of people giving them chances

2) Have her parents changed their manipulative ways? My experience has been manipulative people don't change their ways. And that a parent who uses a cut-off on you once as punishment will do it again.

The possibility of her parents using a cut off again as punishment isn't something the OP should take lightly. Because next time around, if there is a next time, it's not just going to be her that's hurt by them, her husband and son (and any other children they may have), are going to be affected too. I know as a daughter cut off by her mother twice, it's very painful. I'm childfree, so I didn't have to worry about explaining to my kids why grandma cut us off. I can only imagine that explaining grandma and grandpa on mom's side don't want to see their grandkids must be even more painful than what I went through. I'm not married, so I can only imagine how painful it must be to see a forgiving, compassionate husband cut off by his parents-in-law.

A happy family reunion is a possibility, but so is a second cut off. A third possibility is the parents trying to use the reconciliation as access to abuse and control their daughter and her family. Which is why many of us are advising a slow, cautious manner of proceeding.

Btw, after the first cut off, I let my mother back in her life when she wrote me a letter saying she was going to AA. I never even got an apology, but being the good daughter and wanting to support her sobriety, I took her back without any conditions (an earlier attempt on her part had been met with a "let's meet with a family therapist on my part). I mistakenly thought it was the alcohol and things would be better. But she still screamed and raged at me for no reason (this was in my 30s and 40s) until she decided to cut me off for setting some reasonable boundaries. Which is what caused the first cut off (apparently asking not to be screamed and cursed at on the phone is an unreasonable boundary).

I followed the advice to just welcome her back, etc. It bit me in the butt and then kicked me in the butt. I'm sorry I ever fell for the reconciling after the first cut off. I wish I would have at least insisted on an apology and moving slowly. It would have saved me another decade plus of emotional/verbal abuse and aggravation. I feel this way as a single, childfree woman. I'd feel even more strongly if I had a husband and/or children who suffered from that decision.

Reconciliation isn't always the way to go. I saw a saying on Facebook "Giving some people a second chance is like giving them more bullets for their gun because they missed you the first time."

I'm not saying don't give them a 2nd chance, but just make sure they don't have any more bullets!
That's the problem. You can't have one without the other. Giving them the second chance is giving them a chance to put yourself in the situation again.
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Old 10-08-2012, 10:14 AM
 
Location: Arlington, VA and Washington, DC
23,565 posts, read 33,287,625 times
Reputation: 32116
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
I disagree vehemently.

My parents were never intentionally racist in thought or in action, but looking back over my childhood and family history, I see some racism. Not awful, blatant racism, but just some outdated "pre civil rights" types of ideas.

When I was in college, I began dating a black guy. My parents and relatives were APPALLED and as we became more serious, they were adamantly opposed - begging me to reconsider, crying, pleading, kicking me out of the house, the whole nine yards.

Well, we got married anyway, and a few months later I was pregnant.

The minute I became pregnant, my parents and extended family did an about face. Over the next eleven years, we had four children together, and my family has loved them (and me) with great enthusiasm. (My now -ex husband and I divorced after eleven years of marriage, but they accepted him as well while we were married.)

They are incredibly proud of their grandkids (and now great grandkids) and their house is filled with photos. My dad is very big into keeping up with old friends and family online, and he is always sending out photos, updates, etc of all the grandkids and great grandkids.

My parents have been terrific grandparents and my kids and grandkids are crazy about them. If I had held onto resentment, everyone would have missed out.

Here's a recent photo of my parents with the youngest great grandbaby - my dad was telling a funny story, while my mom laughed and the baby took it all in!



Here are three happy generations - my mom, my daughter, and one of the grandbabies:



I encourage the OP to give everyone this opportunity!

Parenthood isn't easy. We all make mistakes. Be generous and positive - and forgiving. That doesn't mean "put up with rude or hurtful behavior." It just means be open to opportunities for repairing and building relationships.
From a black guy, you and your parents just became a billion times more awesome to me.
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Old 10-09-2012, 03:51 AM
 
Location: Texas
43,409 posts, read 52,403,598 times
Reputation: 70378
Op, it really is amazing how a baby will change everyone's views on everything.
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