Basic attitudes about family (father, holidays, wealthy, dysfunctional)
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I would not want to hurt a person's feelings or deliberately provoke their anger by saying it to their face. If the person asked me directly whether I thought she was a loser, I might try to couch it more gently, but I'd admit to it. I'm sure there are people you'd judge as "fat" or "unattractive" but you'd never say it to their face.
There's a difference between holding that your opinions are valid and not wanting to go out of your way to hurt a person to their face.
What's also important is what we DO with the judgments we make. What actions do we take with regard to that person? If I judge a person a loser, I'm probably going to distance myself a bit, not trust them with certain tasks, and not support some "brilliant" idea they come up with. If I judge a person unattractive, I'm not going to pair up into a couple with them. If I judge someone as fat, I'll probably do nothing about it, but my opinion is still going to be there. If I judge someone as dishonest, I'm not going to trust them, and I'll make sure I verify whatever they tell me.
Yes, I believe that I should be judged likewise. I judge people based on the content of their character as evidence by their words and actions. I expect the same to be done to me. I'm no Bible quoter, but I do believe in "judge not, lest ye be judged." That is not a directive to never judge others; it's just saying that if you're gonna judge, you'd better be open to it yourself.
Besides, I'd bet I judge myself much more harshly than others would.
Maybe people feel that calling someone a "loser" is pretty mean...especially a family member...especially when it was just for something as simple as her callingherself a writer, and you not agreeing with that...Calling someone a loser kinda denotes that everything they do is wrong.
That is not why I called her a loser. I never said that, which you will see if you re-read my post. I called her a loser based on a lifetime of observing her - her inability to hold employment, her dysfunctional relations with other people, her inability to handle money, her habit of mooching off other people and over-staying her welcome.
.... what makes you judge and jury to call someone a looser?
Ah! That's exactly what I am talking about. What makes me judge and jury is a life time of observing my cousin. I am 69 and she is 67. Do you mean you never form judgments about other people? Haven't you ever realized you need to be careful with someone because that person has a pattern of being less than honest, for example? It is really impossible to be so naive as not to realize that there are people on this earth who are (just by way of example) controlling, manipulative, dishonest, self-centered, etc. So why is it bad to call a spade a spade?
Can we only offer a judgement on those who are honest, hard-working, kind, compassionate, intelligent, giving, fair minded, and so on? What a wonderful world it would be if there were only people like this, but the fact is there are all kinds!
It's generally considered taboo to bad talk family members, others as well as your own. Many people are very protective of their own family and wouldn't dream of referring to their own family in such a way, much less hearing others do so about their own, etc.
Personally, I love my family, but it doesn't blind me to their issues. Some of my family members are enablers, some of them lack foresight, some were alcoholics, pedophiles, abusers, etc. It's the truth. But i don't necessarily put that out there to everyone because it's not something many people want to hear (they will judge you in most instances) or deal with.
Just watch what you say online. Besides, maybe in your offline world most people understand where you're coming from, but on here, people only get to know you based on what you write/type. and often times they'll judge you accordingly.
It's generally considered taboo to bad talk family members, others as well as your own. Many people are very protective of their own family and wouldn't dream of referring to their own family in such a way, much less hearing others do so about their own, etc.
Well, we do not share the same opinion about what is considered taboo. I would certainly argue with "generally". Your attitude fascinates me because I do not understand it at all. What is it about being related that puts people in a category which is immune to criticism?
Not too long ago I posted a thread in the Writing Forum about people who say they are writers but who are not. I used the example of my female cousin and mentioned that she is a loser. I reaped a firestorm of protest from posters who seemed to feel it improper to criticize a family member. I tried without notable success to direct the discussion back onto the thread topic and off of my cousin personally. With considerable reluctance I finally answered some of the questions about her, at one point stating that all of her sibilings and all of the other cousins agreed she is a loser. That brought the comment that the poor soul is encumbered with a horrible family.
If I had realized what a distraction calling her a loser was going to be, I would have omitted that from my OP. As it was I was surprised by the vehemence of some posters (and their personal attacks on me) whose ideology about family seems to require that we not call a spade a spade if it comes to family members. I suppose it would be O.K. with those people to talk about a neighbor or a co-worker in the same negative terms, just not a family member.
Personally I don't understand what family has to do with it. In this world there are, unfortunately, people who are undeniably all sorts of things: alcoholics, drug addicts, liars, cheats, moochers, drama queens, criminals of various sorts, and so on. Certainly no one believes that people in those categories don't have other people related to them? Even murderers have parents, siblings, aunts and uncles, cousins, and sometimes even children of their own. This is simply an objective fact.
So I guess according to the "speak-no-evil-about-family-members" point of view we just shouldn't mention such things, even on an anonymous internet forum? It doesn't make sense to me. But thinking about it brings home how deeply rooted such basic attitudes are; during childhood some people must pick up that concept and accept it as unquestioned dogma. Otherwise how am I to understand what I ran into in the other forum?
Your thoughts on the matter?
Never mind basic attitudes about family. Based on your first paragraph, I think you might want to rework your basic attitudes about how to be a decent person in society.
First, you decide someone is "not a writer". What gives you the credentials to do that?
Secondly, you announce to a forum full of strangers that the person you're critizing as "not a writer" is a relative of yours. That's none of their business, and you're way out-of-line to have even mentioned it.
Thirdly, and worst of all, you label her as a "loser". To a forum of strangers! Really???? Reallly???
Well, we do not share the same opinion about what is considered taboo. I would certainly argue with "generally". Your attitude fascinates me because I do not understand it at all. What is it about being related that puts people in a category which is immune to criticism?
I dn't think they're "immuned" to criticism at all. I personally experience the most criticism from my family (usually of a constructive nature) and I am most affected by the behaviors of my family because I am closest to them. But I can say that just because you criticize your family to your family, it does not mean that other people, outside your family, want to hear it. Especially not online where what you say on here, is what people are judging you off of. So when you put something like that in your posts, in reference to making a point about people who claim to be writers, I can honestly tell you, people will jump to defend your cousin simply because you said what you said when she isn't even there to defend herself. Many of these people might've already disagreed with your intense opinion of people who claim to be writers when they are not and thought that you referring to your cousin as a loser because of her belief that she is a writer was too harsh and judgmental in tone.
I'm not saying your cousin is or isn't a loser. I don't know your cousin. I'm just saying that what you put in writing is what people on here see, and will react to. You can say what you want, mind you. You're certainly free to that. Just know that's what people will react to.
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