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Could have been medical, like dental, that needed to be taken care of. It happens a lot. Not everything can be put off. Doesn't really matter though.
Yes, it was something important enough that I just offered to pay for it and she plans to pay me back once she starts working again. In the grand scheme of things, $7500 to my parents doesn't really even come close to all the money they've put out for me over the years, so it didn't really bother me to help them out with those things. But no, me giving them money is not something that should continue and they don't want it to continue either. I talked to my mom today and even though she originally asked me to help my dad out with the foreclosure situation, at this point, she thinks that maybe I shouldn't give him the money.
It's likely to be a lot worse than you thought when you take a look at what they've already done. Bet all the real estate is hocked to the hilt.
I agree. I said this previously. You see it so much in real estate that it is really unbelievable how many people hock everything to the hilt living on credit and un payable loans until their ship goes down. They will try to anchor themselves to others and pull other people right down with them, if they can get away with continually borrowing enough to do so.
What you're describing about your father is just what I suspected. That's why you have to explain to them that you'd like to help them, but that you need to have a complete, crystal clear picture of the entire financial situation beforehand, with a very concrete, exact plan for how to proceed from now on. That means you need to go to town hall with your father to see exactly what mortgages are recorded on EVERY property they own, including their cars (you just need to see the titles for the cars -if they don't have them, they're hocked). Anything that could have been hocked. You need to see their current credit reports, to see if they are living off of credit cards. You need to see all the sources of income, and exactly where all the money is being spent. You need to see the bank statements, the credit card statements. You need to know if they're living off selling your mother's jewelry, or silver, or whatever. If any of the properties are underwater, and the rental income doesn't cover the taxes, mortgage, interest, maintenance, etc, then let them go to foreclosure. If their own home is in the same situation, they may need to let it go too. If they have any property that currently has true positive cash flow and is NOT underwater, tell them they have to add you to the deed, so they cannot mortgage it without your consent, and take over the management of it, to make sure that it continues to provide them with needed income.
You have to be nice, but firm about all this. Emphasize that you are their daughter, you love them, you are grateful to them, you want to help them. But they're not managing their finances, and it's NOT going to get any better - it will get worse. You are doing this to fulfill your responsibility as their child to take care of them.
Your father is in denial about his situation (i.e. he doesn't ask you for money your mother does). You are in denial about the situation your parents are putting you in (you don't want to have a talk with him about it). Not a lot of honest communication going on and you've come to a forum of strangers to get advice you won't use.
There is no magic solution until your father accepts responsibility and you sit down with him and perhaps a 3rd party financial advisor to figure a way out. Until all his cards are on the table and you know everything there will be no solutions. You need to see tax returns and checking accounts.
I had a father who owned property, got rental income and asked me for money to pay taxes, or rather my stepmother did so he could save face. We (siblings) took control, gave them a monthly check and acted as landlord.
He couldn't not manage money, period. Some people can and some people can't.
Some people look like they can until their luck runs out. Bernie Madoff's did.
Pretty much sums it up.
My own sister is one of those Wizards of Wall Street - but cannot balance her check book. Used her house like an ATM machine until the bust happened.
Okay I just finished reading ALL the posts and it seems like you are just complaining and don't want advice. Your first post actually stated that. So give them the money, then give them some more, then complain some more. Everyone has pretty much said what needs to be done. These "loans" should be memorialized on paper, notarized, etc. so that you can at least write them off on your taxes. Then ask your parents to either put you on the deed for the best of these properties, so when they die or sell, you can get your money back. Then if you want them to stop asking for money, go to a financial planner with them, and help them make a plan to get out of the hole. Otherwise you are just going to continue on this same path indefinitely. It's not like they are starving, they own 3 properties and they obviously have other assets, so "helping" them is your choice, not your obligation. If they were destitute, my answer would be different, but they are willfully acting helpless and you are willfully supporting that choice.
Yep. Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.
OP: How do you see this ending?
Your parents used to have 6 rental properties, now they're down to 2 rentals and letting them fall apart for lack of maintenance. They're not paying their property taxes. Your father refuses to get a job because he insists he's "self-employed", but he's losing so much money he can't even pay basic bills (like property taxes).
If they sell the rentals now, they can at least have some money left to invest. Otherwise, they'll lose everything eventually.
I don't "lend" my Mother money, I give her what she needs to survive. Maybe this is a different situation than the OP.
My Mom has nothing. She gets $1100 a month pension. And a $700 mortgage. She has no 401k, no savings.
She is over 65, not a lot of jobs out there for over 65. She does not have a bunch of property. Just her house, almost paid for...she holds onto it like a dog with a bone, even though it is basically falling apart, because she has no money to keep it up.
My role in this mess? I don't know. She won't move, or sell...is helping her enabling?
Your mother holds onto her home because she doesn't want to be homeless. If she isn't physically able to care for herself, that is one thing. But if she is physically ok, but has no money, that is something else.
Perhaps it is time for the two of you to sit down with a social worker with the local department of aging, and try to figure out some options for her. The problem is your mom probably fears change as much as anything else. But you should be trying to save her from catastrophe.
I don't "lend" my Mother money, I give her what she needs to survive. Maybe this is a different situation than the OP.
My Mom has nothing. She gets $1100 a month pension. And a $700 mortgage. She has no 401k, no savings.
She is over 65, not a lot of jobs out there for over 65. She does not have a bunch of property. Just her house, almost paid for...she holds onto it like a dog with a bone, even though it is basically falling apart, because she has no money to keep it up.
My role in this mess? I don't know. She won't move, or sell...is helping her enabling?
Totally different situation. She is just trying to survive, not play real estate magnate using someone else's money. If she rents, it's going to be just as much. How soon before paid for? Then she can put $400 a month or so towards repairs.
I don't "lend" my Mother money, I give her what she needs to survive. Maybe this is a different situation than the OP.
My Mom has nothing. She gets $1100 a month pension. And a $700 mortgage. She has no 401k, no savings.
She is over 65, not a lot of jobs out there for over 65. She does not have a bunch of property. Just her house, almost paid for...she holds onto it like a dog with a bone, even though it is basically falling apart, because she has no money to keep it up.
My role in this mess? I don't know. She won't move, or sell...is helping her enabling?
Maybe she could get a roommate and then save the rent for house repairs? She might even enjoy the company. Or perhaps she has enough equity for a reverse mortgage to bring in some money?
If your mother is only 66-ish, she's going to need money for house repairs over time. She'll probably outlive the useful life of her roof, for instance. Property taxes and utilities will probably get more expensive relative to her social security/pension income as well. She really needs to revising her financial plans!
My grandma is 96 and we've stopped worrying about long term maintenance on her house because she'll have to go into a home soon. But it would have been a disaster to make that decision when she was 70 (and destined to live at least 16 more years). Three of my husband's grandparents also lived well into their 90's.
...I don't see why he needs me to hold his hand through all that. He can talk to a financial advisor on his own without me getting involved if that's what he wants to do.
1.) "Sweet Like Sugar", give him the money to pay the back taxes. Especially if it will not impact your finances or future plans.
2.) Your dad is a coward! A prideful coward. Getting his wife to ask you for money. What kind of "man" is he? No wonder he is depressed and discouraged.
3.) You seem to be a very responsible young person who is financially wise. Your father is not. You do need to "hold his hand", otherwise you can expect more of the same in the future.
4.) Late 50s/early 60s is not "senior citizen". I'm 62 and still ride a century about once a month on my bicycle, (a 100 mile ride - I'm a little slower and it now takes about seven hours to complete).
5.) If you live nearby, work with your father to perform whatever repairs are needed on the rental properties.
6.) Do not allow yourself to be put on the deeds, unless you are financially able to bear the full load, if that day comes, and it very well may.
7.) As a condition of you giving them this money now, you require that they complete Dave Ramsey's "Financial Peace University" 10-week personal financial management class. You go ahead and pay for both your mom and dad to attend the class. Require them to show you their "graduation diploma" before you will give them any other financial resources.
8.) Don't neglect your own financial future. You will most likely marry some day. Before you do, make absolutely sure that all of this is behind you. Don't burden your new husband/wife with such matters or bring him/her into a situation like this.
I am getting the impression that OP would feel uncomfortable stepping in and taking control of the parents finances, and the father would not accept that type of help. The father may consider himself self employed but as a landlord he is operating a failing business. In the situation he finds himself, he won't have the money to re-invest in real estate to get himself back up to the 7 rental properties he had in the past. He can't afford to maintain the 2 he has as it is. He needs to find a job - any job - soon. As does the mother.
I like the idea of paying for the Ramsey course, and do agree the back taxes should be paid in order to stop foreclosure. If the house is paid off, it seems a shame to let it go to auction for back taxes owed. It seems like the OP has an open communication with the mother, who hopefully has some influence with the dad. Their situation has changed and they must change their actions accordingly.
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