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Old 12-04-2013, 11:25 AM
 
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Originally Posted by TheShadow View Post
You and your sister will get through this, but you just need to have frank discussions about the fact that you really do not want her to make excuses for him to you. The young man did what he did, and I would tell her what you expect from him to be able to forgive him. I would also be frank about how things will be in the future. For example: I know this will be hard Kathy, but Billy will not be welcome in my home at Christmas dinner unless he has made a full apology and started to repay the cost of the stolen items." She will protest, but things have changed in the family and she can accept that her child is now seen as untrustworthy, but there is a path to redemption for him.
Thanks. Yes that is exactly the conversation that I have been dreading. I know she will have a hard time with this, and the fact that I feel this way. He is living in her home, and I really am not sure of how much life has changed for them, 4 months later. I know he is working 2 jobs, and taking classes at a community college. And I know that some discussions have taken place as far as him making amends. But I don't know anymore than that really. I guess I have become more and more disillusioned with him because it HAS been 4 months and I thought that he would have at least contacted his grandmother. You know, he's a kid that has been given every advantage in life, and he has not really had a great deal of experience with "making his own bed" so to speak. Can you believe that he is asn Eagle Scout? Oy vey. His parents are dealing with as tremendous amount of guilt, and I swear I do not want to add to that, but I know my sister blames herself, in her heart. It's just a really hard thing for us all to deal with, all the way around. I sincerely hope we get through it, but I suspect it will take a very long time.
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Old 12-08-2013, 12:47 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChessieMom View Post
Well I don't think people generally treat their family the same as "any stranger". I certainly never have. This is my sister's boy. My mother's grandson. He did a horrible, unbelievable thing, (yes it IS grand theft) that I don't know if I can ever forgive. I am still full of anger at him. It will take a long long time, and a lot of work on his part, to mend the relationship. And I do absolutely expect him to work hard to earn back trust from us all, and to make full restitution. This was our decision to go this route. You can choose to do whatever you feel is right, in your family. I have no qualms at all about this. I feel we did the right thing, for us. My post was not made to validate or question that in any way. My post was about how to deal with my sister and the situation that I described. But I think she and I are okay now. I'm not sure that she can see things from any other position that the mother that she is. I think we know that we just cannot discuss it yet, not until her son makes some progress toward making amends.
When one puts a circumstance such as grand theft out there on a forum, you will get advice that includes calling the police despite your preferences, that is just how people are. He needs to answer for what he did, and learn a lesson. I hope he never does this again and that you are spared any grief from his actions in the future. If the police had been involved your sister would have to face the music and been much more accommodating to your feelings. By not involving the police she can hide, ignore the situation and hope it all goes away and blame you for not forgiving him unconditionally and questioning his apology. No win.
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Old 12-08-2013, 06:33 AM
 
Location: Southern New Hampshire
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Originally Posted by ChessieMom View Post
Well I don't think people generally treat their family the same as "any stranger". I certainly never have. This is my sister's boy. My mother's grandson.
Obviously I meant in these particular circumstances -- when the person who simply by accident of birth is related to you has proven that he is a criminal with no remorse or conscience. (Again, so much for the "personal responsibility" that we're always going on about being so important. Not saying that YOU did that, but we certainly do as a society, then we conveniently forget about it just because someone HAPPENS to be related to us. Yes, by all means let's LOWER our standards for people who are related to us. )

My sister's boy is a sociopath, and your sister's boy may very well be one too (again, no conscience). Why would I want a sociopath in my life just because he happens to be related to me? He is scary.

I hope your nephew never steals from anyone else, but somehow I doubt that that will be the case. And THOSE victims will likely think to themselves, "Wait, he did this before and no one did a thing?"

I don't know if you can salvage your relationship with your sister, since she has chosen to not care that her son is a criminal and should be in prison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayekaye View Post
When one puts a circumstance such as grand theft out there on a forum, you will get advice that includes calling the police despite your preferences, that is just how people are. He needs to answer for what he did, and learn a lesson. I hope he never does this again and that you are spared any grief from his actions in the future. If the police had been involved your sister would have to face the music and been much more accommodating to your feelings. By not involving the police she can hide, ignore the situation and hope it all goes away and blame you for not forgiving him unconditionally and questioning his apology. No win.
Yep.

I know I sound harsh, but it boggles my mind what some people let others get away with in the name of "family."
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Old 12-09-2013, 08:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChessieMom View Post
I posted back in August (although under a different username) about a situation in my family. I'll try to briefly describe it here:

My 20 yr old nephew, (sister's son) whom I adored, was staying with me for a couple of weeks, and during that time stole some of my gold jewelry. He also stole a necklace of my son's; a treasured item from when we were in the Caribbean many years ago, as well as several very dear pieces of his grandmother's gold (my mother). He had stayed a couple of nights with her while he was here. It was a horribly difficult situation - he had fabricated a story about a gold necklace that he "found", even showed it to me and asked me if it was real. He then took it to a pawn shop and THAT afternoon, showed me the stash of cash, smiling. "Look at what I got for that necklace!!" And I was like...wow...I guess that really was a good piece of gold. SO...he up and left suddenly and later we discovered the missing items. With the help of my son we figured out the pawn shop and found out he had stolen all this stuff....and I was just devastated. IN fact he made TWO trips to the pawn shop...so we think he was so tickled after the first haul that he decided to take more (he stayed a second weekend at my mom's so we think he just got the idea to do it again since she had such easily accessible jewelry and clearly he was getting away with it). So there were two trips to the pawn shop...with some incredibly old, dear pieces in there. Just broke my heart to see the pictures (the pawn shop takes pics) I broke down crying in the pawn shop. I made the decision to drive up to my sister's, my son came with me, I called her a few minutes from her house, told her what I had found out, and she and I confronted him. Turns out he stole a ton from her too, she had been gone the previous weekend and he hit while she was gone. His father got home that night and of course we had a lot of tears and discussion. We gave him the choice of jail or therapy. Of course he chose the latter. Ended up that he had been taking percoset, but he swore he was clean at my house...but that he just couldn't explain why he did what he did. He blew the money on just stupid sh*t...going out with his friends...that sort of stuff. (Oh, also found out he stole some percocet from my mom's house too. )

Anyway..he went to therapy for a couple of weeks, also to drug addiction meetings, every night. I think he has stopped going to those now. He is back in school (a local community college) and working 2 jobs. His mom mentions him to me, I basically have shut him out of my heart and cannot bring myself to forgive. My son has not spoken to him. My mom has not either...she of course was completely heartbroken over all of this, but says she wants to put everything behind her now in the interest of family. I have not heard a peep from him in all this time...until last night. My sis was here for Thanksgiving - just her - and we had been shopping and her son called...and she talked to him a while, and then he asked to speak to me. I didn't want to take the call, but I did. He said Hey Aunt XXXX, Happy THanksgiving...how are you...just a light conversation. I really didn't talk much, and it was probably pretty obvious to him that I was not the same. After I ended the conversation, my sister said "You know, you didn't have to take the call if you didn't want to talk to him"...and I said "That isn't the phone call that I need to get from him - I need an apology, and I sincere heartfelt talk about how he wants to be a part of my life again."

Well things just blew up and my sister says I am being unfair and that he just took his first step towards making amends and I "sh*t all over it". She was in tears, I was too...and I dropped her off at my mom's and left.

I've been dreading a visit from her as I knew that things would be hard...but I didn't anticipate this. I had wanted to tell her that I was not going to be getting a Christmas gift for him this year because I just didn't feel that I could...and I knew that she would be upset with that...but hell this blew way up, way beyond what I expected. And I do feel bad....but I don't feel that I have been unfair. She said that I have "incredibly high standards" and that I expect everyone to be perfect. This is SO untrue. But I loved that kid...took him to Europe with me and my son a few years ago, have stood up for him EVERY SINGLE TIME that his parents accused him of something (and now of course I know that they were right about him - he is a pathological liar and manipulative as hell - there have been many past issues with this kid)....and he did that to me. I felt, and still feel...so incredibly hurt and betrayed, for myself, and for my son, and my mom. That said, he has not been in any trouble since then.

One of the last things my sister said last night...I had told her that I had this big hole in me that I didn't know how to fix...that HE would have to fix it. She says he doesn't even remember taking the stuff - that is was the drugs - and that he feels terrible about what he did, every single day. And then I said.."AS HE SHOULD!" And then she said - You think it's all about you, but it isn't about you. It's about HIM.

Jeez. AM I being unreasonable? How in the hell do we ever get past this?
I love it when the perpetrator becomes the victim. It doesn't matter that he doesn't remember what he did. He knows he did it and he has work to do to make it up to you and your son, beginning with an apology. It might be best if he not continue to be a topic of discussion between you and your sister. If he is going to community college I assume he is an adult and can fight his own battles. When he comes to you with an apology then maybe you can start opening up communications with him again. But do not go through your sister anymore and do not go to him either. He is the one who should come crawling. Good luck!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChessieMom View Post
My sis did get over it, for now at least. The last thing I had said to her, before leaving my mom's that night was to not hold onto this crap. Let it go. And she wouldn't even look at me she was so angry. I stayed away the next day and went over just before dinner (we were having my birthday dinner, so I had to go, LOL!) and she was pretty much a-okay. We didn't talk anymore about it, but at least we made it through the blow-up without any serious lasting damage. (At least I hope!)

I do think a letter to my nephew would help me, but something in me needs HIM to figure this out. I just think he needs to do it in order to "get it". I've always been the one standing up for him, taking his side, helping him figure things out. I'm on the other side now. He burned me, my son, and my mom, HARD. It's HIS turn.
If you have to ask or beg someone to give you an apology, what is it really worth? The truth is your nephew isn't sorry for what he did, he's just sorry for how what he did is effecting his life. Don't ask him for anything directly or indirectly. Either he will be a respectable person and do what's right or he won't. He is a grown man and doesn't need anymore "raising" or "mothering". Stop infantilizing him.

Last edited by trishguard; 12-09-2013 at 08:52 PM..
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Old 12-09-2013, 09:34 PM
 
25,864 posts, read 32,866,448 times
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Originally Posted by trishguard View Post
I love it when the perpetrator becomes the victim. It doesn't matter that he doesn't remember what he did. He knows he did it and he has work to do to make it up to you and your son, beginning with an apology. It might be best if he not continue to be a topic of discussion between you and your sister. If he is going to community college I assume he is an adult and can fight his own battles. When he comes to you with an apology then maybe you can start opening up communications with him again. But do not go through your sister anymore and do not go to him either. He is the one who should come crawling. Good luck!



If you have to ask or beg someone to give you an apology, what is it really worth? The truth is your nephew isn't sorry for what he did, he's just sorry for how what he did is effecting his life. Don't ask him for anything directly or indirectly. Either he will be a respectable person and do what's right or he won't. He is a grown man and doesn't need anymore "raising" or "mothering". Stop More, More, More him.
I already stated that we have pretty much come to that conclusion. And I am not "begging" for an apology. I am not asking HIM for anything at all.

And if you are implying that I am "infantizing him", you clearly have misinterpreted my posts.
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Old 12-09-2013, 09:41 PM
 
25,864 posts, read 32,866,448 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayekaye View Post
When one puts a circumstance such as grand theft out there on a forum, you will get advice that includes calling the police despite your preferences, that is just how people are. He needs to answer for what he did, and learn a lesson. I hope he never does this again and that you are spared any grief from his actions in the future. If the police had been involved your sister would have to face the music and been much more accommodating to your feelings. By not involving the police she can hide, ignore the situation and hope it all goes away and blame you for not forgiving him unconditionally and questioning his apology. No win.
Everyone is free to make there own decisions should they go through such an experience. As I already said, my decisions were made based on my own feelings and discussions with family members (my brother had a somewhat similar experience with his own son and has been through several "programs", and it's been a remarkable and positive transformation). It really is of no concern to me what other's opinions are on that particular aspect of it. Clearly, everyone should do what is best in their own individual situations.
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Old 12-10-2013, 03:01 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ChessieMom View Post
I already stated that we have pretty much come to that conclusion. And I am not "begging" for an apology. I am not asking HIM for anything at all.

And if you are implying that I am "infantizing him", you clearly have misinterpreted my posts.
It sounded like you were using your sister as a go between, telling her you want an apology so that she can tell him to give you one. Sorry if I misinterpreted what you've been saying.
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Old 12-10-2013, 12:43 PM
 
25,864 posts, read 32,866,448 times
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Originally Posted by trishguard View Post
It sounded like you were using your sister as a go between, telling her you want an apology so that she can tell him to give you one. Sorry if I misinterpreted what you've been saying.
Maybe you got this from someone else's response; definitely not my intention to give that perception as I have not done that at all, nor would I.
Thanks.
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