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Old 12-18-2013, 05:25 PM
 
12,540 posts, read 12,529,126 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
I honestly really do love my sister with all my heart. But lately, we have been fighting constantly. Long story short, I just don't agree with many of her decisions and I believe that she is slowly throwing her life away and I don't like it.

Several days ago, we got into a huge fight and I told her "Please never call me again, I don't really care what happens to you because obviously you don't really care what happens to yourself!" She called several times after the fight, but I didn't bother to pick up the phone. I know her too well, she just wanted to call and pick up more fights with me.

My sister went through many hardships in life and I don't really want to get into details. Let's just say that she lost her true love when she was younger and she married to a person whom she didn't really love.

I tried to be supportive and has always offered a shoulder for her to cry on. But I think lately, she has taken me for granted. She would call me in the middle of the night and talking for hours. None of our conversation has been productive. I am really sick and tired of listening to her sorry story. If she refuses to make some positive changes, what can I possibly do for her?

My sister told me that if I couldn't apologize to her, our relationship would be over. Seriously? She said, "If you cannot swallow your pride, that tells me how important I am to you. You don't love me at all, and I am fine with you not being in my life. Also, it seems to me that you always choose to be right rather than being loved." Seriously? So in another word, in order for her to love me, she has to hear "I am sorry". This doesn't make any sense to me.

I don't like this tension between us, especially a week before Christmas. I really miss her and want to have her back in my life. But I really feel we are growing apart, maybe I don't love her unconditionally as I thought I did?

I am very confused. Any advice and suggestions?!
Yes, don't tell your sister not to call you ever again unless you mean it.

When I booted my eldest sibling out of my life, I had no contact with her for years on end. I tried to bury the hatchet when we had to attend a funeral together, and two months later she reminded me why I didn't speak to her or have anything to do with her for the prior six years.

I'm going to give this to you straight, because I like you:

1. What your sister does with her life and the choices she makes are her business. Unless she's asking for your opinion and advice, do not give it to her. Even if she does ask, and you provide, do not take her listening to mean she agrees with you, and do not take it personally if she does not do what you would in that situation. It's not for you to say whether another adult is throwing her life away. Your comments about not liking her decisions give me pause, because that is the kind of thing my eldest sister did that alienated the rest of us so very, very much.

2. Don't presume to know what your sister's intent was in calling you.

3. She called and you ignored her. That told her you were serious about not wanting contact with her.

4. Yes, you do owe her an apology. You basically told her that because she makes different decisions with her life than you do with yours, you want nothing to do with her. Again, as one of three sisters who dealt with this kind of behavior from the eldest, I can tell you that from her perspective, yes, it does feel like you are more interested in being right than anything else. Having been on the receiving end of that kind of thing, I can say that at first it's hurtful. Then it's aggravating. Then it's enraging. And then it's not worth the effort of maintaining the relationship. This is how my eldest sister lost all three of us, as well as all of her nieces and nephews. Don't be like her. You can and will lose your sister over it.

I hope this doesn't sting too much. It's just that I could have written your post from your sister's side of it.
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Old 12-18-2013, 06:03 PM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
33,302 posts, read 20,110,179 times
Reputation: 13012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilac110 View Post
Yes, don't tell your sister not to call you ever again unless you mean it.

When I booted my eldest sibling out of my life, I had no contact with her for years on end. I tried to bury the hatchet when we had to attend a funeral together, and two months later she reminded me why I didn't speak to her or have anything to do with her for the prior six years.

I'm going to give this to you straight, because I like you:

1. What your sister does with her life and the choices she makes are her business. Unless she's asking for your opinion and advice, do not give it to her. Even if she does ask, and you provide, do not take her listening to mean she agrees with you, and do not take it personally if she does not do what you would in that situation. It's not for you to say whether another adult is throwing her life away. Your comments about not liking her decisions give me pause, because that is the kind of thing my eldest sister did that alienated the rest of us so very, very much.

2. Don't presume to know what your sister's intent was in calling you.

3. She called and you ignored her. That told her you were serious about not wanting contact with her.

4. Yes, you do owe her an apology. You basically told her that because she makes different decisions with her life than you do with yours, you want nothing to do with her. Again, as one of three sisters who dealt with this kind of behavior from the eldest, I can tell you that from her perspective, yes, it does feel like you are more interested in being right than anything else. Having been on the receiving end of that kind of thing, I can say that at first it's hurtful. Then it's aggravating. Then it's enraging. And then it's not worth the effort of maintaining the relationship. This is how my eldest sister lost all three of us, as well as all of her nieces and nephews. Don't be like her. You can and will lose your sister over it.

I hope this doesn't sting too much. It's just that I could have written your post from your sister's side of it.
Thank you Lilac. I like you too.

I know what you are saying. It is just so difficult to hear her changing her mind again. (going back to her cheating husband, why?) But like you said, she made those decisions, and it is none of my business.

I called her this morning, and she said she didn't want to talk. I apologized and she said she appreciated it and she loves me still.

Though she is 11 years older than me, I feel I am her older sister. She said I was full of myself sometimes and I always had to be right. She said she felt I didn't respect her because I looked down on her. I know where is she coming from.

I love her but I hate her husband. She said if I want to be in her life again, I need to just be there for her.

Our conversation about her marriage is always like this,

Her "He is cheating again, I think.."
Me "okay, what are you going to do about it?"
Her "I don't know. This time I am going to end it for good."
Me "you said it last time, You expect me to believe you this time?"
Her "what is your problem? I didn't call to have a lecture, you know?"
Me "Then don't call."
Her "I am your older sister and I am 11 years older than you, don't talk to me as if you are my mother."
me "then act like a 39 year old."
Her "why do you act like you are my God damn mother?"
me "wow, seriously? you always walk all over people who really care about you, why don't you confront your ugly cheating husband for a change?"
her "You are awful."
me "Please don't call anymore"

Then she hung up on me

I realized that she just wanted to vent although it always sounds like she was asking for advice. Maybe I should tell her I love her more. God knows how much she wants to hear those words.

I don't know if this makes sense, but I want to give her love. She obviously doesn't get it from her husband..

Thanks Lilac, I appreciate your advice.

Take care..
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Old 12-18-2013, 06:21 PM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
33,302 posts, read 20,110,179 times
Reputation: 13012
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheryjohns View Post
It's your sister and the damage she is doing is to herself. Tell her you love her and you apologize for what you said, but you can't be the listening post anymore. You can love her - but you don't have to buy into the crazy.
I do love her..

Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsyartist View Post
I learned the hard way that my sisters were mostly calling me to vent, even when they were asking for advice or help. Most arguments started whenever I gave them advice on what to do with their lives. .
Isn't that the truth!!! Thank you so much!

Quote:
Originally Posted by oddstray View Post
The bolded part probably warrants an apology. And to be replaced with something along the lines that you really do care, but you can't fix her problems and it wears you out to hear of them repeatedly. Maybe someone else here can phrase that better.
Thank you!! I really appreciate your advice.
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Old 12-18-2013, 06:37 PM
 
6,459 posts, read 3,073,533 times
Reputation: 5914
Betrayal by a cheating spouse is one of the most devastating things most people can experience. However, she is not going to leave the M until it hurts her more to stay than to leave. Arguing with her will not help. She really probably does just need you to listen or advise her to see a counselor or use the many online resources available where she can talk to others in the same situation.

I wouldn't lose my relationship with my sister over this.
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Old 12-18-2013, 10:51 PM
 
Location: SNA=>PDX 2013
2,665 posts, read 3,052,488 times
Reputation: 3112
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
Because others like to pretend they are perfect. People like us (me) start threads after threads asking for help (which I did get many great advice) without worrying about being judged harshly. We don't mind sharing vulnerability. Hey, we are not perfect. I will be the first to admit that.

Those perfect people who never start any threads must have perfect life.
It's also because many of us have heard your story from the beginning and see that you aren't doing much to have a decent relationship with your sister. You're obviously still judging her by your standards and because she's not doing it, you get pissed off.
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Old 12-18-2013, 10:57 PM
 
Location: SNA=>PDX 2013
2,665 posts, read 3,052,488 times
Reputation: 3112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilac110 View Post
Yes, don't tell your sister not to call you ever again unless you mean it.

When I booted my eldest sibling out of my life, I had no contact with her for years on end. I tried to bury the hatchet when we had to attend a funeral together, and two months later she reminded me why I didn't speak to her or have anything to do with her for the prior six years.

I'm going to give this to you straight, because I like you:

1. What your sister does with her life and the choices she makes are her business. Unless she's asking for your opinion and advice, do not give it to her. Even if she does ask, and you provide, do not take her listening to mean she agrees with you, and do not take it personally if she does not do what you would in that situation. It's not for you to say whether another adult is throwing her life away. Your comments about not liking her decisions give me pause, because that is the kind of thing my eldest sister did that alienated the rest of us so very, very much.

2. Don't presume to know what your sister's intent was in calling you.

3. She called and you ignored her. That told her you were serious about not wanting contact with her.

4. Yes, you do owe her an apology. You basically told her that because she makes different decisions with her life than you do with yours, you want nothing to do with her. Again, as one of three sisters who dealt with this kind of behavior from the eldest, I can tell you that from her perspective, yes, it does feel like you are more interested in being right than anything else. Having been on the receiving end of that kind of thing, I can say that at first it's hurtful. Then it's aggravating. Then it's enraging. And then it's not worth the effort of maintaining the relationship. This is how my eldest sister lost all three of us, as well as all of her nieces and nephews. Don't be like her. You can and will lose your sister over it.

I hope this doesn't sting too much. It's just that I could have written your post from your sister's side of it.

^^^THIS!!!



Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
Thank you Lilac. I like you too.

I know what you are saying. It is just so difficult to hear her changing her mind again. (going back to her cheating husband, why?) But like you said, she made those decisions, and it is none of my business.

I called her this morning, and she said she didn't want to talk. I apologized and she said she appreciated it and she loves me still.

Though she is 11 years older than me, I feel I am her older sister. She said I was full of myself sometimes and I always had to be right. She said she felt I didn't respect her because I looked down on her. I know where is she coming from.

I love her but I hate her husband. She said if I want to be in her life again, I need to just be there for her.

Our conversation about her marriage is always like this,

Her "He is cheating again, I think.."
Me "okay, what are you going to do about it?"
Her "I don't know. This time I am going to end it for good."
Me "you said it last time, You expect me to believe you this time?"
Her "what is your problem? I didn't call to have a lecture, you know?"
Me "Then don't call."
Her "I am your older sister and I am 11 years older than you, don't talk to me as if you are my mother."
me "then act like a 39 year old."
Her "why do you act like you are my God damn mother?"
me "wow, seriously? you always walk all over people who really care about you, why don't you confront your ugly cheating husband for a change?"
her "You are awful."
me "Please don't call anymore"

Then she hung up on me

I realized that she just wanted to vent although it always sounds like she was asking for advice. Maybe I should tell her I love her more. God knows how much she wants to hear those words.

I don't know if this makes sense, but I want to give her love. She obviously doesn't get it from her husband..

Thanks Lilac, I appreciate your advice.

Take care..


I'm curious. When she told you she thinks her husband is cheating, WHY WHY WHY did you ask, "what are you going to do about it?". Even I know her well enough to not ask her that. You just threw gas on the fire. I didn't have to read the rest of the conversation to know where it was going to go. A better response would have been "I'm sorry" or MAYBE "why do you think that?"

Many months ago, you said you were going to set boundaries. I see nothing has changed. And now, you're starting to be cruel to her. What you said, was so unnecessary. Apologize for that, for sure. You have to decide if she's worth having in your life. It's downright obvious you feel the only way you can "be in her life" is if she does things your way, on your timeline. Because we all know you're right and she's being an idiot.

What is the saying. "would you rather be right or happy". Your sister is right about that. If you insist on being right and that's your contribution to the relationship, if I was your sister, I'd be more than happy to ditch you. So, if you want to save your relationship, I suggest you stop telling her what to do, stop asking her what to do. Be supportive. Do you know what that means? It doesn't mean being a doormat and it doesn't mean getting her to do what you want, when you want. It doesn't mean asking her "what are you going to do about it" and then throwing her failures in her face.

Personally, if she had one real friend, I'd tell her to drop you because you're only aggravating the situation. And btw, you sound just like my mom. Judgmental and right. Nothing else is important. Only that you're right.
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Old 12-19-2013, 12:25 AM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
33,302 posts, read 20,110,179 times
Reputation: 13012
Quote:
Originally Posted by psichick View Post
^^^THIS!!!







I'm curious. When she told you she thinks her husband is cheating, WHY WHY WHY did you ask, "what are you going to do about it?". Even I know her well enough to not ask her that. You just threw gas on the fire. I didn't have to read the rest of the conversation to know where it was going to go. A better response would have been "I'm sorry" or MAYBE "why do you think that?"

Many months ago, you said you were going to set boundaries. I see nothing has changed. And now, you're starting to be cruel to her. What you said, was so unnecessary. Apologize for that, for sure. You have to decide if she's worth having in your life. It's downright obvious you feel the only way you can "be in her life" is if she does things your way, on your timeline. Because we all know you're right and she's being an idiot.

What is the saying. "would you rather be right or happy". Your sister is right about that. If you insist on being right and that's your contribution to the relationship, if I was your sister, I'd be more than happy to ditch you. So, if you want to save your relationship, I suggest you stop telling her what to do, stop asking her what to do. Be supportive. Do you know what that means? It doesn't mean being a doormat and it doesn't mean getting her to do what you want, when you want. It doesn't mean asking her "what are you going to do about it" and then throwing her failures in her face.

Personally, if she had one real friend, I'd tell her to drop you because you're only aggravating the situation. And btw, you sound just like my mom. Judgmental and right. Nothing else is important. Only that you're right.

So if my sister wants to go back to her cheating husband, I should say "I am supportive of you. Go ahead and do it. and by the way, next time he cheats again, call me in the middle of the night, and let's hug and cry together?!" Quite frankly, she is an idiot for not dumping that cheating ahole when he told her, "I cheat on you because I can." I DON't respect her nor do I support her.


Last edited by lilyflower3191981; 12-19-2013 at 12:34 AM..
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Old 12-19-2013, 05:27 AM
 
Location: a primitive state
9,882 posts, read 20,166,115 times
Reputation: 12422
Take your sister shopping and don't even broach the topic. Don't apologize. Be happy and normal. If she asks, change the subject, replace the drama with something equally compelling that will veer the convo onto a different track. Try to keep it moving. Replace one stimulus for another.

Next, if you're codependent with your sister, then you're getting something out of the deal. Obviously it's something big enough to make you come back for more. Figure out what that is. Maybe you need your own mini counseling series.

Stay away from hot button marriage topics with the sis. Focus on coping skills for yourself. Remove the husband from the permitted topics in your life. He's controlling both of you.
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Old 12-19-2013, 05:46 AM
 
10,355 posts, read 9,382,296 times
Reputation: 15956
To put all of this in a nutshell: stop getting involved in your sister's problems. If you want to say something like: "I hope it all works out for you.", that would be sufficient and then change the subject.

Some people (relatives or not) just want to constantly complain and yet do nothing to better their situations; you either jump in and get swallowed up in their issues, or you don't - your call.

This has nothing to do with whether or not you love your sister.
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Old 12-19-2013, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Alaska
5,356 posts, read 16,349,090 times
Reputation: 4023
Your sister sounds like a friend of ours, except she divorced and then goes from one loser relationship to another with the loser taking advantage of her. She'll officially end the relationship and then go back to the loser after he says what she wants to hear. Each relationship ended when the loser got all he could from her. The only difference between her and your sister is she's gone through multiple partners and your sister only one, but the results are the same. They both repeat the same thing, expecting different results. Our friend goes for the same type of person (a player), and your sister takes back her husband (a cheater).

The solution to your problem will be difficult. My wife works in the same office as our friend and she has decided not to talk about her relationships at the office. If she wants to talk, it has to be outside the office. In your case, you could tell your sister you'll only talk about her relationship problems in person, thus limiting the late night venting calls. Tell her the only late night call you'll accept is one asking you to pick her and the kids up. If she does call and starts venting, remind her of the agreement and that you'll discuss it the next time you meet. Limit the number of meetings if it becomes necessary.

You'll of course have to be the bigger person and apologize, but just apologize for things you said that you regret. Hopefully she'll apologize too, but don't expect it. Be prepared for her to not agree to the above, but stick to it. The main idea is to just reduce the number of irritating conversations that go nowhere. She won't change until he crosses some line (probably a moving target), or he decides to leave her.
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