Mother in law problems with child... what to do (female, males, sister)

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by FinsterRufus

This is one of those situations where it's real easy to be ballsy from the sidelines.

I know exactly how it feels for a MIL to take over the kitchen and clean it under the guise of being "helpful". And it's almost impossible to get them out of there without causing a scene that's worse than the current situation. Some people never get the hint regardless of how much of a backbone you have, and having them be your husband's mother complicates it horrendously. Especially if said spouse can't see it at all. The odds are the OP's going to end up alienating him too. That's not good for the child either.

It's easy to be cavalier when it's not you going through it.

I'm sorry to hear it's not working out for you, but you're making assumptions about my not having experience with this.

I'm not speaking from the sidelines. I've been in the trenches with in law issues and a spouse who was hesitant to stand up to them. I overcame the problems by standing up for myself and my children, establishing healthy boundaries with my in-laws, and holding my husband accountable to me. I laid the groundwork with my husband long before in-laws arrived, reminded him immediately prior to their arrival, and he didn't dare not follow through because I jokingly warned him that he had to live with me all year.

My little sister had a MIL who makes the devil look like a saint. She challenged that MIL head on by very calmly informing her that she would be making a mistake if she tried to force her son to chose between the two of them. Her MIL backed down in a heartbeat.

It's entirely possible to establish healthy boundaries without making a scene by working on the problem in the summer long before the in-laws arrive for the holidays.

It all comes down to having a spouse issue if the OP can't motivate her spouse to back her up.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by LiLShorty4lyfe

Really? I dot think that's the problem. I have a backbone it just hasn't served me well with her bc it ends up all being my fault in the end. I have no problem sticking up for my daughter. I do occasionally try to avoid confrontation between us bc my husband does not back me up and it ends up making me feel horrible.

It's a backbone problem if you let them make you feel horrible to the point you avoid confrontation. You really need to address this with your husband when you're alone with him. Help him understand how it makes you feel and get him on your side.

[LiLShorty4lyfe]

I just went out to lunch with him and he suggested "Why don't you and my mother talk about this?" I explained that it is his responsibility to stand up for me and our daughter but if he decides he cannot do that or feels its wrong, that I will. We've had this discussion many times. I am not a passive wife that this post makes me sound. I am a strong, carrer woman, im a girl scout troop leader, I am a hard working parent... I am simply in a bad spot.

[kitkatbar]

Originally Posted by LiLShorty4lyfe

These suggestions are helpful if I do not mind the drama, because anything she takes offense to will create drama. But I do, I hate it.

Yes, it is difficult. Not denying it. You are not dealing with a perfect, easy situation here, but obviously you already know that. You can either go on with the situation as it has been, or you can implement changes to make it more bearable.

Originally Posted by LiLShorty4lyfe

If we are in my home and lets say she cooks dinner and I go to clean up but she insists on cleaning too, how can he buffer that? She will insist.

He steps in and says, "Mom, come into the living room with me. You worked so hard on dinner." Then she refuses. Then he says, "Mom, I insist," and steers her in there. Or, if he is really so spineless that he can't do this, maybe this means your MIL shouldn't be staying at the house, and/or your husband should inform your MIL of "the Christmas plan" he's worked up for her stay, which includes a lot of eating out so there is no meal prep/cleaning/snippiness.

Originally Posted by LiLShorty4lyfe

Then, if I remove myself from the kitchen and don't clean, she will make a sly comment that I did not cook or clean. Or vice versa if I'm cooking and she inssits on being in the kitchen?

I have this issue too, with a relative who insists on standing in the kitchen and telling the person cooking every single thing they're doing wrong, down to which towel to dry their hands on (apparently I am so stupid I always pick the wrong dishtowel, LOL.) It's not just me, they do this to everyone. I have my husband stationed in the kitchen with me. His only job when I'm cooking is to keep that relative (one of his) out. As soon as they try to come in, he steers them straight out of the kitchen with some diversion.

Originally Posted by LiLShorty4lyfe

And, you don't think she'll make a big ordeal out of me suggesting we take two cars if there are only 5 people?

Yes, but then why were 2 cars taken in the scenario you described? I would think if she's there with "baby boy" she'll probably behave better, right, so then it won't be an issue?

I would not allow her to bully your daughter for a second. The next time she started in with something like the coal comments, I would shut her down hard. I know you don't like being what you think is "mean" but to some extent, she is going to keep pushing until you show her where the boundary is. If she is being catty on Facebook, I would consider unfriending her. I know that sounds harsh, but I have to agree with Hopes that this is going to keep going on until you establish what is okay. Your husband sounds like too much of a pansy to do it. So I would set clear boundaries for how you will accept being treated. She can have a fit all she wants, and if she doesn't improve her behavior, then things don't improve and she can look forward to an uncomfortable Christmas next year where she may stay at your house, but you and your daughter will be "out" a lot of the time. Perhaps this will make your husband find his balls and realize he either needs to tell his mother to straighten up or he can look forward to more drama.

[kitkatbar]

Originally Posted by LiLShorty4lyfe

I just went out to lunch with him and he suggested "Why don't you and my mother talk about this?" I explained that it is his responsibility to stand up for me and our daughter but if he decides he cannot do that or feels its wrong, that I will. We've had this discussion many times. I am not a passive wife that this post makes me sound. I am a strong, carrer woman, im a girl scout troop leader, I am a hard working parent... I am simply in a bad spot.

I think (and I know you hate this) that you're going to have to put your foot down with him too. Really, they're both to whatever extent trying to test the waters and see how much they can get away with in terms of you and how much you'll allow yourself to be made uncomfortable. Your husband is a wimp who doesn't want to confront his mother. So he tries to slyly suggest you guys "talk about this." B.S. His mother behaved terribly and makes you feel badly every time she visits.

I would not make any effort to fix things with his mom. I think that's what they're both hoping, that you'll be the one to bend again and take the hurt they threw at you so neither of them have to have an uncomfortable confrontation with each other. I would simply ignore her until she decides to apologize or make a step towards mending things. I know that sounds extreme, but whether or not you're a "strong career woman who isn't passive" in other areas of your life, you've set the standard that you can be completely bulldozed in this one regard. So that's exactly how they're treating you.

If you want either of them to change their behavior, YOU have to start reacting differently to it. Set the standard for what is an acceptable way to treat you. Hint: a spineless husband who won't stand up for you isn't it. If you're not clearly letting him know you're pissed and disappointed in him, you should be. If you haven't let him know that you won't be participating in hosting holiday get togethers with her in the future until he fixes this and establishes what the acceptable way for his wife to be treated is, you should be. Having a MIL who makes sly rude comments isn't acceptable either. I would shut her down hard at the first one, then not back down. She'll figure out quick enough not to go there, unlike now where you've systematically taught her she can be as nasty as she wants and you'll cower spinelessly and take it.

[LiLShorty4lyfe]

You are all right. I feel the same way, I just wasnt sure. My husband had spun this around so that he felt like he was in the middle, even began blaming me for putting him there. He came to his senses apologized and recognized his mothers behavior for what it is. I don't feel he dealt with it properly, he doesnt know how, or doesnt want to know how. Either way, it'll most likely be up to me and I will confidently implement strong boundaries. I had tried to be civil to the point of avoiding confrontation, but after he leaving abruptly, insulting my child, and causing a huge fight in the household, i lost total respect for her and will have no problem speaking to her the way she deserves.

[kitkatbar]

Originally Posted by LiLShorty4lyfe

My husband had spun this around so that he felt like he was in the middle, even began blaming me for putting him there. He came to his senses apologized and recognized his mothers behavior for what it is.

And really, it's easy to see why he would. He was raised by a crazy, sneaky manipulator. She might adore him as the baby boy, but that doesn't mean his childhood wasn't filled with manipulation, guilt trips, twisted lessons in how to relate to people, and the like. Sounds like your MIL is a drama queen who blames everyone else for the conflict she creates, so it's only natural that's what he learned growing up in that house with that example as a role model.

Originally Posted by LiLShorty4lyfe

I don't feel he dealt with it properly, he doesnt know how, or doesnt want to know how. Either way, it'll most likely be up to me and I will confidently implement strong boundaries. I had tried to be civil to the point of avoiding confrontation, but after he leaving abruptly, insulting my child, and causing a huge fight in the household, i lost total respect for her and will have no problem speaking to her the way she deserves.

I agree with you that he likely doesn't know how. But I will reiterate that you not only have to get HER to change her behavior, you have to get HIM to change his behavior too. And that's tough because obviously there's an emotional component when it's your hubby versus a woman you can't stand, but it has to be done. I would suggest to him that he needs to communicate with his mother that the way you and his daughter were treated over Thanksgiving was unacceptable and that he is hurt you treated his family that way. He should then explain that he wants HER to fix this so that things can get better and you guys can have family celebrations together in the future. He needs to avoid phrases like "talk about this" because all your MIL is going to hear is that she's right and you're wrong. Your MIL needs to get the clear message that either her behavior must change or the future of family gatherings like this is in jeopardy.

It is easy to put all the blame on the MIL (and she sounds awful, I'll admit), but if you fail to hold your husband to the same standard for his part in this (his complacency and not being man enough to stand up for you and your child), then she is going to be twice as bad next year, and every time you shut her down will simply run to him and try to manipulate things. HE needs to set the clear boundary with her that picking on you or the kid is NOT okay with him. Right now he is acting as a spineless go-between (still!) and if that doesn't make you angry at him, it needs to.

[LiLShorty4lyfe]

It does. We have talked ,argued etc over this. We see things very differently. Its like talking to her... nobody sees the reality of it. :-/

[germaine2626]

Originally Posted by germaine2626

Sometimes when people see things in writing, or hear someone else say the comment, they can see how it is really negative or passive-aggressive. Perhaps, this would work. Type out some of the comments that your MIL made to your daughter and posted on FB. Don't just have him read them on FB as he will keep picturing his mother as he reads them and it won't have the same impact. Read them out loud to DH and have him imagine that your next door neighbor or an adult friend said them to your daughter. It is possible that he may realize how truly offensive and rude those comments are when they are made to a child. Or if you are going to a therapist have him or her read them out loud to hubby.

Or perhaps just focus on one or two really, really inappropriate things that she has said to your daughter in the past and tell him that "a woman at the store, or a person on the street, or someone in the line at the post office" said those things to your daughter and what should you have done in that situation. After, the steam stops coming out of his ears and he stops swearing and saying that he will "hunt that person down and make them apologize" tell him that it was really something that your daughter's grandmother said to her. This tactic is very risky, but may be worth the attempt, esp. if some of the comments are truly insulting and extremely demeaning. You may also find out that your husband doesn't really think that a child being called "a stupid cry baby" or "dumb, ignorant brat" (or whatever MIL said) is a bad thing.

Just because your MIL is a New Yorker and the grandmother does not give her the right to cruel and mean to a child (or to you either).

PS. Next time something like driving two cars is being arranged plan in advance that the MIL and son are in the other car (because of course, he will want to spend as much time as possible with her). Perhaps, he may even want to go on an overnight trip with just his mom during the next visit to spend "quality time" with her. Or he can travel, by himself, to occasionally visit her.

It just occurred to me that maybe, due to how your husband was raised and things his mother probably said to him when he was growing up, that he may be reluctant to change because he really doesn't see his mother's comments as "bad", or "inappropriate" or just plain "cruel". Maybe he truly thinks in his heart of hearts that calling a child "a stupid, cry baby" is OK? Does he says those types of mean comments to your daughter or allow other adults (friends, your relatives, neighbors, etc) to say things like that? If so, then perhaps you need to take some parenting classes together or he may need some counseling.

To add a bit of (sort of) levity to this thread, I'll give an example from my classroom. I once had a new student, just turned three year old, who called the teachers, aides, and even the principal, "Stupid, F******, B****". This went on for a few weeks and no matter what we tried to do he continued to use that phrase. The mother kept saying that she had absolutely no idea where he had heard that phrase and why he would continue to say it. Then I went on a home visit.

You probably guessed it, I overheard Mom's boyfriend calling Mom and her sister, "S,F,B" numerous times during that hour long visit. The boyfriend never called her or her sister by their names just used that same phrase again & again. It turns out that the three year boy truly thought that was the correct and appropriate way to address adult women. He was not trying to be mean or disrespectful, but after hearing that term hundreds, if not thousands, of times during his young life it was "normal to him". BTW Once his mother and aunt started to insist to the boyfriend to call them by their names, and at school we realized where the phrase came from, we were able to help the boy address females more appropriately.

Is it "normal" for your husband to hear children being addressed and talked to the way his mother talks to her grand daughter? Does he think that it is OK? If so, changing that perception, is a good place to start.

Good luck to you.

[BirdieBelle]

He IS in the middle, but he is going to have to be a part of this.

Sitting down with her for "a talk" will not help. Kitkat's suggestions for things he can do and say IN THE MOMENT are the best ideas.