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I'm a little cold in person. I was raised in an Asian household where we rarely hugged, kissed or expressed our feelings. No one would ever describe me as warm or flirty or outgoing.
Wow,
I'm surprised no one has commented on this part yet.
Ok, just to be clear...I'm a married man
My first thought on this particular comment of yours: maybe that's why the men in your life attempt to befriend you at first. So that you can warm up to them and THEN they can make a move.
If you're rather cold in person, that normally is a signal that you're not ready to buy. So why not, try to get to know you better first and then ask later, after you've warmed up some? Just as an example, the woman who gets attention at the club the most, is normally the one who looks like she's having a good time (dancing, drinking, laughing etc). Not the one who is just sitting there giving off the evil eye. A few men may take a chance and approach her, but the vast majority won't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StabbyAbby
Why is it so hard for a man to just say "Hey, would you like to have coffee/dinner with me"? Why are some men so cowardly?
I really, really want to believe that most men aren't completely sex-crazed and can be trustworthy friends but that belief is being challenged on a regular basis.
No human likes rejection. Male or female. Even the top sales reps have to LEARN to overcome rejection. Men, like women, do not like to have their feelings hurt. So if a man works up enough courage to approach a woman, and she rejects him, that's just negative reinforcement (I approached her, she rejected me, so approaching women = rejection).
You yourself felt the need to rant because of the rejection you have experienced (your friends ending the relationship). That is a form of rejection and as you can see, it doesn't feel very good. So you really shouldn't be mad at a man who doesn't want to feel rejection. Women generally think it's a relatively easy thing to have a man approach them, because women generally are NOT the ones who have to make the first move. It's not as easy as women generally think it is.
Not all men are Alpha males, and that's perfectly ok for them to be beta. I'd say be careful what you ask for. It sounds like you want an Alpha male, but they have their problems as well (lack of sensitivity, don't listen, blah blah blah. All the things women complain about when they DO get with an alpha).
One other thought. You critize men as a whole for not being upfront with you in their approach. Yet you belittle the man who you found online who WAS up front with you (you said something like who would be desparate enough to have someone come from halfway across the world). Ironic no?
Some guys on here have responded in ways that I don't think were disrespectful. To one, you said his statement made no sense. Yet it actually did make sense. I don't think you wanted to hear it.
I'm actually just trying to be helpful. If 9/10 men who you befriend (and the others are gay, asexual or married) turn out to want more, then maybe you really should examine your situation (which you are by posting here). But don't come at it from the perspective of "I'm done with heterosexual men" and more from the perspective of "maybe I should try something different with the next heterosexual man I want as a friend".
If a man hasn't asked you for a date in the first few weeks (your criteria), instead of assuming that they want friendship (which hasn't worked out well for them in the past), maybe you should just say "hey look. if we're going to continue on, I want you to know that if you want more out of this relationship, it's not gonna happen." This way the guy knows where you stand definitively and there can be no room for error. Unlike with assumptions.
Plus, if you've spent a few weeks with them, I don't think there's anything wrong with you spelling out to them in no uncertain terms where the relationship will go from there. You can have a conversation with someone who you've befriended for a few weeks.
I'd be interested to know what your experiences would be like if you tried that. Sorry for the long post, and I hope you didn't take it as me attacking, I'm just trying to help.
I'm surprised no one has commented on this part yet.
Ok, just to be clear...I'm a married man
My first thought on this particular comment of yours: maybe that's why the men in your life attempt to befriend you at first. So that you can warm up to them and THEN they can make a move.
If you're rather cold in person, that normally is a signal that you're not ready to buy. So why not, try to get to know you better first and then ask later, after you've warmed up some? Just as an example, the women who gets attention at the club the most, is normally the one who looks like she's having a good time (dancing, drinking, laughing etc). Not the one who is just sitting there giving off the evil eye. A few men may take a chance and approach her, but the vast majority won't.
No human likes rejection. Male or female. Even the top sales reps have to LEARN to overcome rejection. Men, like women, do not like to have their feelings hurt. So if a man works up enough courage to approach a woman, and she rejects him, that's just negative reinforcement (I approached her, she rejected me, so approaching women = rejection).
You yourself felt the need to rant because of the rejection you have experienced (your friends ending the relationship). That is a form of rejection and as you can see, it doesn't feel very good. So you really shouldn't be mad at a man who doesn't want to feel rejection. Women generally think it's a relatively easy thing to have a man approach them, because women generally are NOT the ones who have to make the first move. It's not as easy as women generally think it is.
Not all men are Alpha males, and that's perfectly ok for them to be beta. I'd say be careful what you ask for. It sounds like you want an Alpha male, but they have their problems as well (lack of sensitivity, don't listen, blah blah blah. All the things women complain about when they DO get with an alpha).
One other thought. You critize men as a whole for not being upfront with you in their approach. Yet you belittle the man who you found online who WAS up front with you (you said something like who would be desparate enough to have someone come from halfway across the world). Ironic no?
Some guys on here have responded in ways that I don't think were disrespectful. To one, you said his statement made no sense. Yet it actually did make sense. I don't think you wanted to hear it.
I'm actually just trying to be helpful. If 9/10 men who you befriend (and the others are gay, asexual or married) turn out to want more, then maybe you really should examine your situation (which you are by posting here). But don't come at it from the perspective of "I'm done with heterosexual men" and more from the perspective of "maybe I should try something different with the next heterosexual man I want as a friend".
If a man hasn't asked you for a date in the first few weeks (you're criteria), instead of assuming that they want friendship (which hasn't worked out for them), maybe you should just say "hey look. if we're going to continue on, I want you to know that if you want more out of this relationship, it's not gonna happen." This way the guy knows where you stand definitively and there can be no room for error. Unlike with assumptions.
Plus, if you've spent a few weeks with them, I don't think there's anything wrong with you spelling out to them in no uncertain terms where the relationship will go from there. You can have a conversation with someone who you've befriended for a few weeks.
I'd be interested to know what your experiences would be like if you tried that. Sorry for the long post, and I hope you didn't take it as me attacking, I'm just trying help.
I'm a straight male who has a couple of true female friends and who tends to get along
with (some) women very well.
To be completely truthfull, I was in love with one of those women 20 years ago, as a teen.
There is no ambiguity at all between us right now though . The love thing was a long, long time ago.
I consider her a true and precious friend and I get along quite fine with her husband.
I've had a couple of female friends whom I found sexually attractive. I've never considered myself friendzoned though, because although I'd have probably liked to sleep with them, not getting to sleep with them was not a problem at all and I had all kinds of other valid reasons to be their friend.
I understand that this is quite rare among straight males though so I won't pretent that it's generally easy for males and females to be just friends. I know I can. I have lots of experience with it. I have another guy friend of mine who also has female friends. Both of us are straight guys who lack interest in some of the more typical male topics like sports. In his case of mine, not getting to sleep with a woman would not in itself be a reason to stop being friends.
I've had the experience of women getting really frustrated and stopping being friendly when their advances were refused, lol.
one thing, I must try and reinterate, is this
when two people of the opposite sex are friends, sometimes, we love them so much, we completely mix up the whole idea behind the friendship and mistake it for a sexual attraction, which may then ruin the spiritual relationship we are having with that person. A friendship can be spiritual...you can be so close to another human being, but it isn't at all sexual....that is the gift of love.
If men are direct then they could be charged as being sexually harasive or cat calling etc. I'm sure the vast majority of men would rather just be direct. It's women that need to play the game and draw it out.
To my understanding most guys make friends over common interests like hobbys etc. Do you actually share any common interests / hobbies with these guys? I don't notice most girls even having hobbies outside men.
As weird as it may sound the friend market can actually be competitive too, people only have so much time. What are you providing other than being a girl - if nothing then are you surprised at the result?
If men are direct then they could be charged as being sexually harasive or cat calling etc. I'm sure the vast majority of men would rather just be direct. It's women that need to play the game and draw it out.
To my understanding most guys make friends over common interests like hobbys etc. Do you actually share any common interests / hobbies with these guys? I don't notice most girls even having hobbies outside men.
As weird as it may sound the friend market can actually be competitive too, people only have so much time. What are you providing other than being a girl - if nothing then are you surprised at the result?
You really need to get out more if that is your experience or re-evaluate where and who you hang with and the type of women you are attracted to. More likely than not if one has an 'experience' like this over and over and over to the point that's all they think it's usually them and their own selection process that brings it about.
More likely than not if one has an 'experience' like this over and over and over to the point that's all they think it's usually them and their own selection process that brings it about.
Agreed
That's why I think the OP needs to reevaluate what it is she is actually doing to bring about her experiences
I agree. They're afraid to show their interest directly and somehow think that if they pass themselves off as a friend that you'll be interested in them.
Both men and women play games. Know that going in and you get no surprises. Women here is a secret. A straight man will think about knocking boots. You just don't see the way he's looking at you when you walk away or bend over to pick something up. Age doesn't matter.
Here's another little known secret many women don't talk about in public. In general as a woman ages and her looks fade and gravity does what it does men stop looking. So if your having a problem with men, just wait. Just to let people know it's not my intent to bash women. Men are for the most part about physical looks and women are about security. That's life.
I'm a little cold in person. I was raised in an Asian household where we rarely hugged, kissed or expressed our feelings. No one would ever describe me as warm or flirty or outgoing. I did NOT give mixed signals. I have always told my friends about my dating situation. I treated my male friends the same way I treat my female friends.
I have the right to accept or reject anyone I want at any time. Pretending to want to be just friends with a woman when you're really just biding your time, hoping that she will spread her legs for you and then whinging about being "friend zoned" when she DOESN'T, is pathetic. I don't like people who play mindgames.
Friends are people I don't have sex with. That's why they're called FRIENDS. If a man has not asked me out on a date within a few weeks of knowing me, then I will conclude that he has absolutely no interest in me at all and I will only think of him platonically from there on. I prefer to let men make the first move and if he hasn't, I will get over it and move on because it's beneath me to fight for someone who clearly isn't interested. Men are responsible for "friend zoning" THEMSELVES.
Why is it so hard for a man to just say "Hey, would you like to have coffee/dinner with me"? Why are some men so cowardly?
I really, really want to believe that most men aren't completely sex-crazed and can be trustworthy friends but that belief is being challenged on a regular basis.
If you think it's that easy then perhaps you should risk rejection and come back to us.
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