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Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Futurist110
That said, though, a female can force a male to properly wear a condom before she has sex with him. Thus, if a couple has sex without proper condom usage and a pregnancy occurs afterwards, then both parties are to blame for this, rather than only the male.
Ok, what? This is flat out wrong on every level. I've never ever been forced to wear a condom. No male ever has.
The choice can only be the woman's. It's her body that is physically damaged. For example, I had to have an emergency c-section. That's major surgery. They split you open, take out your intestines, your uterus, your insides, and put it on top of you or on an adjacent table. Then they take the baby and put it all back. And it doesn't go back in the way it was. I have lumps now that I never had before. I also have incontinence and will randomly pee myself.
This is just par for the course, let alone complications some women get like gestational diabetes, preeclampsia, cardiomyopathy, etc.
And labor, ime, is like no other pain. I broke my foot last month and have been hobbling along. My husband, before the x-ray didn't think it was broken because my reaction was minimal. Compared to labor this is easy.
OTOH, there is abortion. I hear that's like a painful miscarriage. I've experience that and my God that was a b*tch. You bleed like crazy and are doubled over in pain. We cannot make those choices for others. It's not fair to the guys, but it's just how we're built.
1. The choice can only be the woman's. It's her body that is physically damaged.
2. For example, I had to have an emergency c-section. That's major surgery. They split you open, take out your intestines, your uterus, your insides, and put it on top of you or on an adjacent table. Then they take the baby and put it all back. And it doesn't go back in the way it was. I have lumps now that I never had before. I also have incontinence and will randomly pee myself.
This is just par for the course, let alone complications some women get like gestational diabetes, preeclampsia, cardiomyopathy, etc.
And labor, ime, is like no other pain. I broke my foot last month and have been hobbling along. My husband, before the x-ray didn't think it was broken because my reaction was minimal. Compared to labor this is easy.
OTOH, there is abortion. I hear that's like a painful miscarriage. I've experience that and my God that was a b*tch. You bleed like crazy and are doubled over in pain.
3. We cannot make those choices for others. It's not fair to the guys, but it's just how we're built.
1. From a pro-choice perspective, Yes, I agree with you.
From a politically anti-abortion perspective, there generally shouldn't be a choice. After all, from this perspective, there is also the body of the prenatal human being to consider.
2. Thank you very much for sharing your story with us.
3. From a pro-choice perspective, Agreed, though it is possible to make things fairer to the guys in other ways.
1. From a pro-choice perspective, Yes, I agree with you.
From a politically anti-abortion perspective, there generally shouldn't be a choice. After all, from this perspective, there is also the body of the prenatal human being to consider.
2. Thank you very much for sharing your story with us.
3. From a pro-choice perspective, Agreed, though it is possible to make things fairer to the guys in other ways.
I think the laws are the way they are because it's recognized that you cannot force a person to undergo invasive bodily injury. Not even the unborn can do that. With that said, I understand it's difficult to fully grasp this if a person has never experienced.
And I don't think it will ever be fair, not to women or men. It's an unfair situation.
1. Again, a horribly misplaced comparison. Gun dealers have no relevancy or analogies here. Neaither do car drivers. A gun dealer is a third person in the transaction, as is a car dealer. The only analogy here is between the two people having sex or the shooter and the shot. Or the driver and the person being hit. If you can't see that, there is no reason to deconstruct the rest of your arguments.
2. And no, abortion isn't available
3. and even if it is, isn't a choice available to everyone.
4. For many people it is NOT an option. You can say it again and again and again, it doesn't make it the truth. Abortion is NOT an option to many people.
5. You know what is an option? For a guy not to have sex if he doesn't want to deal with the results. End of discussion.
6. Lets keep this simple. Don't have sex if you're not willing to deal with the consequences (a potential child) just like don't shoot someone unless you're willing to deal with the consequences of killing them. Simple.
7. Since you can't really seem to grasp basic obvious analogies and the flaws in yours, there really is no reason to deconstruct this further.
8. Of course, what you think doesn't matter.
9. Even if the woman doesn't want to go after the man for child support, it is irrelevant. It behooves the state to do so. That will not change nor should it.
1. Actually, No. This comparison here does not seem to be "horribly misplaced". I was talking about final decisions here, and just like the gun/car which the gun dealer/car dealer sold resulted in a shooting/car accident due to someone else's final decision, the sperm which a male placed in a female resulted in the creation of a new person due to someone else's final decision.
2. Not even in the more liberal U.S. states or in some/many European countries?
3. And I support changing this.
4. Actually, it is an option in the sense that they are able to get one if they want one. They are simply unwilling to utilize this option.
5. Yes, that is an option for males, just like not going into the gun dealing/car dealing business and just like not selling someone a gun/car is an option for other people.
6. Your argument here could just as easily be applied to telling gun dealers and car dealers to be more careful to whom they sell guns/cars to or to leave this business and find a new career.
7. I do not think that I fail to grasp anything. Rather, you simply don't appear to have built a good, strong case in favor of your position.
8. It matters in the sense that I am able to vote and to support politicians in the hopes of achieving the outcome which I desire in regards to various issues.
9. Yeah, I know what the current law in regards to this is. However, as I already stated many times, if I look at this from a pro-choice perspective on personhood, then I disagree with the current law in regards to this.
1. I think the laws are the way they are because it's recognized that you cannot force a person to undergo invasive bodily injury. Not even the unborn can do that.
2. With that said, I understand it's difficult to fully grasp this if a person has never experienced.
3. And I don't think it will ever be fair, not to women or men. It's an unfair situation.
1. I wasn't talking about using physical force here.
2. Don't worry--I seriously hope to eventually experience pregnancy myself.
3. Actually, if we ever develop the technology to give people complete sex changes (in regards to both the body and the brain), then things will certainly become fair for everyone.
1. I wasn't talking about using physical force here.
2. Don't worry--I seriously hope to eventually experience pregnancy myself.
3. Actually, if we ever develop the technology to give people complete sex changes (in regards to both the body and the brain), then things will certainly become fair for everyone.
I mean force choice direction via law. Even if there are sex change operations that allow men to become pregnant, which I don't believe will happen in my life time if ever, it's still not fair. The choice is pain or pain. Nature isn't fair.
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