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Old 05-15-2014, 10:30 PM
 
6,461 posts, read 6,447,134 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spicymeatball View Post
I'm interested at all the people who say "no, hate him forever. Let them burn." Isn't family about unconditional love? Now, I'm NOT saying you should allow them back in your life on a regular basis, let ALONE let them around your kids, but I'm sort of astounded at the volume of people saying forgiveness is absolutely impossible. I mean I've heard cases of a family member killing another family member and usually the family seems to forgive them.

Even if a relationship would be too awkward or impossible, I think forgiveness is always a good thing. Of course it's hard and you should never be rushed towards it, but it's always good to let go of bitterness I think. My stepdad was physically and emotionally abusive to me and I forgive him for it.

I find it sad that so many victims of abuse probably end up dying angry.
Physical and emotional abuse are very different from sexual abuse. I am sorry that you had to go through that, and it's great that you have moved on. Some people are unable to do that. Did you read the earlier post where the person said that they knew an abuser who thought the little girl had asked to be molested? These abusers are mentally ill and many feel like they have done nothing wrong. That's hard to forgive.
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Old 05-15-2014, 11:08 PM
 
Location: Southwest Washington State
21,544 posts, read 14,173,408 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeaceAndLove42 View Post
The fact he wasn't put down like the rabid animal he is disgusts me! Child molestors are the kind of people I wish we could bring back medieval torture devices for. Seriously, make it legal, give me some space/torture devices and some child molesters and I will HAPPILY spend all day torturing these ****!! And all with a smile on my face! We have such a ***** legal system when monsters such as him doesn't immediately get put down with a shot to the back of the head (with his crown jewels being ripped off in the most painful way possible at first)!
You have posted a really disturbing post. And your internet name is peace and love?

I would like to imprison child molesters so they can't hurt any one else. I would be happy for them to never have freedom again, although that is impractical. But to say that you wish you could torture them? Thinking that puts you on their level.
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Old 05-15-2014, 11:25 PM
 
Location: Southwest Washington State
21,544 posts, read 14,173,408 times
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I think these are all hard questions, and I don't feel that I have really good answers. I do believe that we should personally forgive injustices done to us. I don't feel that we need to, say, forgive Hitler or the 911 perpetrators, unless they hurt us personally. I prefer to neither forgive nor hold a grudge in that case. I am not empowered to forgive the sins of others; that is God's work, or if you are a non believer, it is the work of the universe, I guess.

We do know that the most constructive way to deal with deep hurt is to forgive. People who don't forgive even minor slights are never happy. They live in a place of constant grudge holding, always unhappy about things that are done to them. But if I had been molested as a child or raped as an adult, I don't know how I would be able to completely forgive. I know as a Christian I should be able to find the spiritual resources to do it, but I don't know if I would be able to.

I heard several years ago, the relatives of a serial murderer in WA stand in court at his sentencing, and either curse him or forgive him. Some said they forgave him, because of their religious beliefs. I remember some in tears as they spoke. The murderer was impassive except when people spoke emotionally of their wrestling with forgiveness, and then he was clearly near tears. I don't know if their sincerity got to him in any deep way or not. But I have been asking myself if they had the authority to forgive, really. I mean the murders were not done to them. What gives them the right to forgive what was done to another person?

But I do know, that those people who struggled with, and managed to forgive, are probably the most mentally healthy. I do think forgiveness of something heinous done to yourself or your loved one, has to be the hardest thing in the world. I admire those who walk that path.

To the op, I wouldn't imagine that after being molested by a parent, that a normal relationship can be had. If the molesting parent has truly, tearfully apologized, then I do think there might be a sort of relationship. But if there is no apology, then I'd keep my distance. I might even consider bringing charges if there is any chance this parent might abuse another child. But doing so would be very hard. In fact, there wouldn't be any easy choices in that case.
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Old 05-16-2014, 05:49 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaggieZ View Post
I forgave lots of things that happened to me or were done in my life and that didn't mean I'm OK with those things as far as agreeing or condoning them. I just let them go..but the sexual and emotional abuse I suffered, I can't forgive or forget. It's not helping my life and letting it go would be immensely positive but I can't do it. Leaving it behind and prentending it didn't happen never worked yet and I've tried. No matter what I try, forgiving feels like saying "allright it happened, let it be, forget it"...it's just too huge and it's ruined my life. I just recently started actually believing I shouldn't blame myself or be ashamed of it. I just recently(few years ago) told someone about it. I understand that letting it fester in you is not good. I understand that forgiveness is about helping yourself move forward in life. I get it that it's not about the creeps who did this...all that sounds great but I have no clue as to how you forgive how someone ruined your life and stole your childhood. The fact that the people who were supposed to put a stop to it when I told them about it but didn't is why I broke all contact with them. I don't care how those who are still alive, wallow in their guilt now. No contact is for me the only way to have some peace.
I used to be ashamed of it myself, for years....but came to realize, I had nothing to do with initializing it, as I was 5 years old when it started. When I finally told, my aunt made it worse by being angry with me, instead of doing the proper thing, b/c of her children....and he got after every one of them. Anyway, for me, forgiving isn't forgetting. I will never forget what happened, but I don't want to remember it, so much so that it affects my life in a negative manner.

I've managed to let it go a long time ago, and watched as it destoryed my cousin's lives....so thru much counseling and personal refections, this is how I view it. Yes, it happened and it was most unfortunate, so I have two choices, to hate or to forgive and get on with my life. I think it's always easier to harbor negative thoughts, then to let them go. Has nothing to do with anyone who violated me, and has everything to do with my own personal health and how I view things, my life and others. I won't allow anything to over come what took so darn hard to get here.

Life is a gift and along the way, sometimes people get hurt, but a whole lot of times, people get hurt much worse then I did....plus, I"m not alone in this...meaning, it has happened to others some more worse then me....I feel nothing but empathy for my attacker, b/c I'm certain, he to was sexually abused as a child, and someone from the family actually has told me so, therefore, all I can conclude is, it went to his head, and caused him sickness, which in turn effected so many other lives, but I refused to allow it to effect me, and sought out help...counseling and talked about it.

For a long time my goal was to try and make people more aware, but yanno something, and this I actually hate a lot more...is when you tell people or discuss it with them, they give you this blank stare, like "are you really telling me this". And they say nothing.

I tried going intot several Christain threads and begged people to make their churches and schools aware of this, and how prevelent it is in our communities, but they to, ignore it and pretend like you never said a word to them. That to me is a sin!

As long as it doesn't effect others, they don't want to hear about it or try and raise awareness about it. But if it happens to their child, then it is the most God awful thing....and they want justice or the father goes and literally beats up the molester, and gets put in jail?????

Yanno, I've done lots of research on the subject, and my son is a cop, and it is proven that very few molesters can be rehabilitated. Plus, in their lives, they molest between 50 - 75 kids in their lifetimes.
They make not one positive contrabution to society, and yet, they walk around free, and still prey upon our helpless children. That to me, is what I hate....they need to be put away...and we need to change it.

But hate my molester, I won't allow anyone to bring me down to that level...I won't ever forget it, and afterwards, never wanted to ever be around him again, and that was my choice....but...hate, no, never.

And remember, that is me, this is how I handed it, and it worked best for me....and I'm not a religious fanatic....don't go to church, but believe in God....

I believe when you harbor negative feelings for others, or wish others bad, it all comes back to haunt you...in one way or another....wishing harm on others is not a good thing in my book, but cha gotta do what cha gotta do....I'm not telling anyone they are wrong for thinking and feeling the way they do about it....
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Old 05-16-2014, 06:17 AM
 
26,313 posts, read 24,404,548 times
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Quote:
Stripedshirt I was looking for information about digging under a driveway, when I saw this thread title posted off on the right.
You were supposed to venture into this thread, if not for you, then for someone else.

Quote:
With Mother's Day looming, this subject always pops up for me.
How could it not?

Quote:
We all returned home. He never molested me again but he did begin the emotional abuse and I always felt like Cinderella. The hated step child who got all the chores and disdain, while the siblings were loved.
That shocks me, do you realize that only 1% of molesters are rehabilitated? I cannot imagine how hard it was for him to stop....not to mention the embarrassment....so, when smoker stops smoking, they sometimes replace the habit with food, which is what he did, hence the emotional abuse.

Quote:
I was aware this was a taboo subject and it was to be treated as if it never happened. We went to church, my Mom was a PTA mom, Sunday School teacher, and we lived as normal a life, for appearances sake, as we could.
that always amazes me, how some mothers are able to look past this, not only my mother looked beyond it, but my aunt did as well and she would not allow her kids to play with me. However, it must be horrible for the mother, and most mother's I suppose, go into this denial, they don't want to believe it, and will do anything not to.

Quote:
Fast forward some 25 years later. I had a daughter. I cringed when he would say "come give Grandpa some kisses" or pick her up and sit her on his lap. When she was four, it all started pouring out and I had a breakdown. I asked my Mom to come to counseling and she refused. I said I couldn't have a relationship any longer, until she would come to counseling.
You did the right thing, God forbid if he had done something to her, and there is ALWAYS THAT CHANCE, I TO WOULD HAVE DONE THE SAME.

Quote:
We quit speaking, and during that time my father continued to call me and ask me to patch things up with my Mom. You might be wondering why, I quit speaking to my Mom and wanted her to come to counseling. I guess it was because she didn't save me. She moved me back into that house, with that man and I had to live with him and the fake life and the continued emotional abuse for years. She had options. She chose to stay with the man who sexually abused her daughter!
I'm guessing, things were never the same between him and her, how could they be...she must have held a whole lot of emotions pent up inside. And yes, indeed she had options....but it was her choice, not yours, so, never ever carry any guilt for your decission.


Quote:
He subsequently went into a depression and called me one day to come over to talk while my Mother was at work. I did. He was a broken man who sat with his face in hands and offered me a very sincere apology. He cried (and this was a "macho man" who didn't cry) and I forgave him.
I can compare as to my knowledge, my uncle never said a word to us, that he was ever sorry, all he did was deny, and there were five of us girls, not to mention all my cousin's girlfriends which he also went after. So, your father was not only able to stop it, but to also realize, deep within that he did a horrible thing. Let me tell you something, GUILT can destory a person....literally. And that is the Hell on earth that some human beings create for themselves, I truly believe that.

Quote:
He committed suicide some months later.
I'm very sorry but that to was his choice....not yours, you didn't do it, he did...and I hope you always know that with confidence and belief.

Quote:
That was 17 years ago and to this day, I have no relationship with my Mother or my brother and sister. She eventually came to counseling with me, about a year after his suicide, but she cried for herself. For her dead husband, her son going through a divorce, and came in with a list of things I had done as a teenager (ran away from home, smoked pot) as some sort of defense "Look what a trying teenager I had on my hands!!" for herself. My counselor asked her "Did you ever think that her teenage trials may have something to do with her sexual abuse?" I couldn't believe it when she said "No, I never did."
well, yanno what, then your mother is a very selfish person....and the fact that she came in with this list, of what you did....let me tell you, she is very fortunate, after all you'd been thru, that you didn't do worse! You are a very strong person!

Quote:
However, I am so happy I forgave him. Of course, he was the one who reached out and called me. He asked for my forgiveness. I don't know what would have happened if he had not. I also do not know if he had lived, would I have been able to have my daughter around him, especially as she approached the age I was when he molested me.
He had to be the one to reach out to YOU. Otherwise, that would have meant, he never planned on taking the blame and owning it. But he did, by reaching out to you speaks volumns that he wanted to change, but he couldn't forgive himself. See, your forgiveness wasn't enough....he knew what he had done, and he took full repsonsiblity of the lives he ruined....and you never know, what else he did back then? So, perhaps it wasn't only about you? Also, consider that your mother probably deep in her heart of denial hearts, blamed him....as he blamed himself for your estrangement...she is your bio mother and she had placed the ultimate trust in him...but he betrayed that trust....which is an awful thing to forgive.

You sound a bit like me....and maybe this might help you understand. I forgave him for what he did to me, but it was much more difficult for me to forgive him for what he did to them. I was the oldest. I felt more repsonsible for what happened to them and how it still effects some of them.


Quote:
I do regret drawing the line in the sand "Come to counseling or we don't have a relationship" because now, I have no family other than my children and my husband. That is wonderful, but I miss my Mom and my sister and brother and now, my Mom is 74 years old.
I'm sorry I disagree, I think you did the only thing you could have done....however, it might be a real good idea....if you would go to her now and tell her you've missed her and if she wants to talk about it fine, listen, if she doesn't fine to, just move on with her, and if she pushes you away, than that is her choice. My maternal mother is still alive, but she pushed me away....forever. I don't hate her, but I don't love her either...she should have never been a parent, but I'm so so happy that she wasn't able to abord me.

Quote:
Every situation is different.
You bet it is, and neither one of us can preach to anyone else and tell them how to think or believe...nor do we have to defend our feelings about this or anything else to anyone, do we?

Quote:
I just do not think you can give a pat answer of "they don't deserve forgiveness" or "you must forgive, it is for your sake not theirs".
Yup, cannot agree with you more...and remember, some people are so unable to allow others or understand what you do...that doesn't make them bad people, just is. Your an old soul, do you know that?

Quote:
My friends who know of my abuse, say "How could you forgive him?? He was a monster" They don't understand the journey I took and other people might not understand yours. It is a very personal journey. Thanks for letting me get this out.
The most difficult task in the whole world is to get people to understand, that no matter how they feel, doesn't mean your wrong and they are right, or visa versa, it's just that you gotta do what makes you feel confident about yourself and everything else. Hate, certainly doesn't get us anywhere, just creates more problems.

Quote:
Mother's day is a hard time for me. (I wonder if it is for her...)
Me to, me to, I cried this mother's day, why? Because I feel very sorry for her...she was treated so badly when she was growing up, and I was the only thing she had, but she chose to blame me for her life, and physically and mentally abuse me...took me years to get over that...and always looked for her approval, wanted her so much to love me, but she wasn't ever capable..and my foster family did well by me, honestly they did, they saved my life, but I still wasn't their daughter, their sister, even though we call each other that...do you know what I mean.

And I regret nothing...because it was my personal journey to...we both know that...it is what it is...and I'm blessed in so very many other ways, why spend a whole lifetime hating when there is so very much else to do and enjoy, not to mention, be aware of. We've got a ways to go yet, but we will eventually get there....

so much to learn, isn't there?

Hugs and postive thougths sent your way.
Creme
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Old 05-16-2014, 06:25 AM
 
26,313 posts, read 24,404,548 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cindersslipper View Post
My brother tried to sexually abuse me when I was 8 and he was 13.

He chickened out because I cried (thank God). But it's still scarred across my memory.

I never told anyone because at the grand old age of 8, I knew no one would believe me or if they did, it would be my fault anyway. The boys were faultless, me as the only girl of a personality disordered mother = essentially motherless.

Growing up in a house like that, with no one in your corner, and you know it from birth?

That's sick.
did you go for help? Ever? If not, you should, there are hidden emotions that you may not realize, are there, which doesn't allow you peace.

If your angry a lot of times, but don't know why, then you need to go for help, to talk it out, to get those feelings and emotions out....just to come to terms with it so you can let it go and move on.

Hugs
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Old 05-16-2014, 06:31 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
How can this be achieved?

Molesters need to be isolated from any children, and they should NEVER be given another chance to be anywhere near another child.

I can imagine forgetting the molesters, so these animals will not have any power over you, forgiveness? How can this be achieved?

I have never been molested, Thanks God for that. But asking forgiveness is just too much.
No one asked me for forgiveness, I did it all on my own, why?
Because the anger wouldn't go away, the guilt and the embarrassement....upon forgiving him, it all eventually left....and remember, this is a lifetime process, or was for me....it ain't easy, but can be achieved, and yes, I certainly do view it as an acheivement.

I believe most people, not all, but most, who do personal harm to others live with a rotting guilt, that eats away at them, and live becomes a living hell for them...some don't feel guilt ever, and that is very dangerous....but for me, forgivness was the key to a healthier life for me. A better life. I can forgive, but I don't have to be around that person every again. And that was my choice, which forgiveness can be very powerful in living life in a much more confident and powerful way....
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Old 05-16-2014, 06:56 AM
 
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I personally do not need to forgive in order to get on with life, and be happy. Maybe my notions of forgiveness are to wrapped up on the other person. I do not forgive evil. Period. Ever. But I don't lose sleep over it... if the opportunity to right a wrong crossed my path, I'll do it and be secure in the knowledge that preventing future abuse is a net positive, even after subtracting the "bad" of whatever I had to do.

The notion of a relationship with a sexual abuser is quite vile to me. Why in the name of all that is good would I add happiness to their life? That is nothing but a reward for their behavior, regardless of the actual motivations of the victim.
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Old 05-16-2014, 07:02 AM
 
26,313 posts, read 24,404,548 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rohirette View Post
I personally do not need to forgive in order to get on with life, and be happy. Maybe my notions of forgiveness are to wrapped up on the other person. I do not forgive evil. Period. Ever. But I don't lose sleep over it... if the opportunity to right a wrong crossed my path, I'll do it and be secure in the knowledge that preventing future abuse is a net positive, even after subtracting the "bad" of whatever I had to do.

The notion of a relationship with a sexual abuser is quite vile to me. Why in the name of all that is good would I add happiness to their life? That is nothing but a reward for their behavior, regardless of the actual motivations of the victim.
Ummmm, I don't think and please correct me if I'm wrong, anyone here wanted or did further their relationship with a sexual abuser, unless as a child you were made to.

You do what you have to do...but even if someone did, you are not right and they are not wrong for doing so....and your not wrong for your feelings either....we each do what works for us, and I don't believe any of us should be downing another for what they've felt they had to do....


Quote:
The notion of a relationship with a sexual abuser is quite vile to me. Why in the name of all that is good would I add happiness to their life? That is nothing but a reward for their behavior, regardless of the actual motivations of the victim.
While you view it this way, I do not...and I did not choose to have a relationship with my sexual abuser. Ever!
what works for you, doesn't work for me, and while I cannot speak for anyone else, my feelings on this subject, b/c they differ from yours, doesn't make me any less of a human being..
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Old 05-16-2014, 07:24 AM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA
15,083 posts, read 11,992,787 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meyerland View Post
This man needs to be separated from anyone under the age of 16,
and I hope he is in therapy. He is neither sweet nor gentle.
He is not innocent of mind either.
I can't believe that you actually believe this about this pedophile.
Believe this? I'm just teling a story that happened years ago.
Or maybe that I said he was a sweet and gentle guy?
He was to all...no temper, played folk music.

Pedophiles ARE sweet and gentle...they have to be or the kid would
scream bloody murder...that's one of their 'tricks'...I know from experience....
"Come here, I 've got some candy."
Or the classic..."It's our little secret."
The gentler and sweeter they are the more the child won't tell on them...
confuses the mind....as it is meant to.

And ofcourse he needs to be separated...he needed to be in jail.
I was too young...and the mother wasn't doing it herself...now, would be a diff
story....older and wiser.
But, I'm thinking somehow he got payback. It was decades ago.
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