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Old 05-26-2014, 05:39 AM
 
19,081 posts, read 21,834,960 times
Reputation: 13432

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Quote:
Originally Posted by monumentus View Post
Except it is directly relevant. Here is the original post I replied to:



And I am merely pointing out that there is no reason to automatically spot "trouble" in such a scenario at all. The fact is the OP and her friend engage in a sport together that the wife has no interest in partaking in. There is nothing wrong with this - even if it means that the OP is in a circle of friends for this man that does not overlap with the circle of friends his wife has.

No one in this situation is doing anything wrong. Least of all the OP. The OPs friend and his wife have to reconcile this issue. No one else.
First of all you, nor any of us, have no idea what is happening between the OP, this man, and the spouse other than what is reported here. Stop assuming.

And still, none of what you have to say is relevant to my general point. The definition of friendly...

Quote:
Friendly
: acting like a friend : kind and helpful
: having or showing the feelings that friends have for each other
: showing support or approval



Full Definition of FRIENDLY


: of, relating to, or befitting a friend: as
a : showing kindly interest and goodwill
b : not hostile <a friendly merger offer>; also : involving or coming from actions of one's own forces <friendly fire>
c : cheerful, comforting <the friendly glow of the fire>

2
: serving a beneficial or helpful purpose

3
: easy to use or understand <friendly computer software> —often used in combination <a reader-friendly layout>

4
: compatible, accommodating <environmentally friendly packaging> —often used in combination <a kid-friendly restaurant>
Friendly - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary


No hostility, general goodwill, etc. If a friend is incapable of holding these things IRT a spouse it spells trouble and why you are arguing this rather simple point is beyond me.

 
Old 05-26-2014, 06:09 AM
 
Location: TX
6,493 posts, read 5,217,417 times
Reputation: 2618
Quote:
Originally Posted by monumentus View Post
I would imagine people are saying it is her problem - because it IS her problem. Her and her husband anyway. It is certainly not the OPs. The OP is doing nothing wrong.
No one said she was doing anything wrong. But clearly it bothers her, this problem that "isn't hers". And how helpful is that advice anyway, really? You're only suggesting she not care. That's not a solution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monumentus View Post
The OP has indicated in the thread that the Wife has no interest in fishing as a sport or past time I think.
That's not the point of still inviting her. The point is for the OP to show the wife in this way that she doesn't care who joins them on their outings (i.e., they have nothing to hide, no reason to want it to be just them).
 
Old 05-27-2014, 03:18 AM
 
3,637 posts, read 2,682,506 times
Reputation: 4300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Braunwyn View Post
First of all you, nor any of us, have no idea what is happening between the OP, this man, and the spouse other than what is reported here. Stop assuming.
Nothing I wrote requires any assumption whatsoever. Read it again and actually read it this time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braunwyn View Post
none of what you have to say is relevant to my general point. The definition of friendly...
You ignoring the relevant does not make it go away. The fact is people have friends all the time who are not in their partners circle of friends and may have no desire for it either. Nothing there "spells trouble" so build a bridge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0 View Post
And how helpful is that advice anyway, really? You're only suggesting she not care. That's not a solution.
It is a perfectly valid solution. Stop worrying about something that you can not change and has nothing really to do with you any. Seems like sound advice to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0 View Post
That's not the point of still inviting her. The point is for the OP to show the wife in this way that she doesn't care who joins them on their outings (i.e., they have nothing to hide, no reason to want it to be just them).
Then why invite her? That seems devious and done with an agenda. An agenda for something that is not the OPs problem in the first place. If people invite me somewhere I would like to think that it was because they genuinely wanted me to be there - not because they have some hidden agenda to manipulate how I view some situation or thing.
 
Old 05-27-2014, 06:44 AM
 
Location: TX
6,493 posts, read 5,217,417 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monumentus View Post
It is a perfectly valid solution. Stop worrying about something that you can not change and has nothing really to do with you any. Seems like sound advice to me.
To quote Braunwyn, "Stop assuming." You don't think the OP could've come up with "Ah, **** it, who cares anymore?" on her own? Do you really think she posted up here just for the lot of us to say "Ehhh don't worry about it"?

Well, it's possible. But then, since that bit of advice has been covered, I thought I would offer something different... just in case, you know?

Quote:
Originally Posted by monumentus View Post
Then why invite her? That seems devious and done with an agenda. An agenda for something that is not the OPs problem in the first place. If people invite me somewhere I would like to think that it was because they genuinely wanted me to be there - not because they have some hidden agenda to manipulate how I view some situation or thing.
Naturally, the OP should ask herself if she really wants her to come along before following this advice. I didn't think that needed to be said. It was just an idea, so the OP would have options to consider. Again, I'm pretty sure that was the point of the thread (She can correct me if I'm wrong).
 
Old 05-29-2014, 10:35 PM
 
Location: Mountain Home, ID
1,955 posts, read 3,000,488 times
Reputation: 2411
Thanks for all the advice, everyone. I told my fishing buddy he should invite her along, and he says he has but she's just not interested and enjoys her time at home with him out her hair. So I've decided to just let things stand as they are, since I don't want to jeopardize my friendship.
 
Old 05-30-2014, 12:08 AM
 
5,323 posts, read 1,982,616 times
Reputation: 2969
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1986pacecar View Post
I'm pretty sure the "older gentlemen" is slightly more interested in the OP than she's letting on. This whole platonic thing is usually from the woman's perspective. Men are dogs. If the OP is even remotely attractive, he's thinking about more than the trout on the end of his line. I ascribe to the Billy Crystal theory from When Harry Met Sally; "Because no man can be friends with a woman that he finds attractive. He always wants to have sex with her"
OP, I read the first two pages of advice here and disagree with most of it. For background, I've counseled several marriages over the years, and have quite a bit of experience watching both sides of the water (male/female) in these situations both as a third party observer and as a participant. For the record, I'm a guy. At this point, I'm skilled in with relationship diagnosis in terms of intuiting what needs to be done or avoided to put and keep the relationship on solid footing again. Certain rules usually apply to common situations. Your situation is common. You're the third wheel platonic friend of someone in a relationship. The other person is jealous. It's easy to diagnose and advise on.

First, the above quoted post is the worst of the bad advice that I've read. Completely ignore it. If it isn't obvious how damaged and therefore unreliable the posters sexist generalization is, then let me just state for the record that diminishing men to less than individual human status is neither going to get you anywhere with your friend in terms of your long-term relationship, with quality men in general, nor will it successfully resolve your situation. This poster does not share the same worldview as your conservative Christian friend, and therefore cannot identify with it. I know this poster from another thread, and he/she is far from conservative Christian. He/she likely cannot properly empathize with your older friend's worldview, even if he/she protests my claim. He/she likely associates with mostly men that are pretty far from your friend. I'm not making a quality judgement, only stating that the poster's and your male associations are obviously different. Anyway, for the record, some men are dogs but, from what you said about your friend, he seems like a good guy with values who genuinely enjoys your company. That's what is probable. I would go with your gut and not with what a jaded person on the internet states about him.

Now, to address your situation. Contrary to popular opinion here, it IS your responsibility to appease his wife. It is also his, but it is also yours. NEITHER of you should contribute to his wife's insecurity, even if that contribution stems merely from abstaining from action. When two people are married, there is a tacit agreement to respect and honor the other person. Generally, except when teasing perhaps, that means no deliberate emotional manipulation that includes undermining relationship security. It would be wrong of him to instill a sense of emotional distress in his wife by communicating anything (by inclusion or omission) that made her insecure. That's his responsibility. Similarly, you are knowingly engaging in a casual relationship, albeit platonic, with a married man. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with this, assuming that certain acknowledgments are made that include his wife's well-being. Assuming that you care about this guy as a friend/fishing buddy, you wouldn't want to knowingly cause his innocent wife emotional turmoil both because, by extension, you care about her and because you care about his marriage because its sanctity is central to his stability and happiness. Through acknowledging all of these facets of your three-person dynamic, you will strengthen your platonic friendship as well as his marriage. You do have a lot of power here, whether you want it or not, and luckily it will be fairly easy to make something extremely positive out of the situation (assuming that his wife isn't unappeasable - it happens, but don't expect it. She's likely quite pleasant. Her stated suspicions are absolutely normal thus-far).

If I were you, what I would do is:

1. Have a talk with your friend and mention that you think that you like fishing with him. Absolutely DO NOT insult his integrity by implying that he might want you and that you are "only friends". That's the second worst advice that I read on here, and it's childish in nature. You'll likely severely damage if not ruin your friendship if you do that. Your friend has done nothing to earn that type of disrespect. On the contrary, it seems as if he's been an upstanding platonic friend. I encourage you to respect that. Mention that you like fishing with him (casually mention what you like about the fishing, being out on the water, talking with him etc - a much more subtle and competent way to reinforce the platonic nature of your statements), implying that you want to be free to keep doing that, and that you think that it's important that his wife be secure in your friendship. So, just once, you are encouraging him to mollify her by going out of his way to make her secure. He may have suggestions on what he can do to do that. Even good men get lazy in marriages, and talking about it can help him to wake up a little to something that he can do. That's all that needs to be said about that from your end.

2. Mention that you want to do the same from your end. He'll likely agree to it. Mention that you think that it's important that you be introduced to his wife. Become her friend. Maybe start by going over to her house WHILE the husband is camping; thereby at once making it obvious that you aren't there with him AND giving you two an afternoon to talk. Will a wife ever be completely secure should you join him for a camping weekend without her? I'm not sure. She may get there. What you can do in the meantime is try to cultivate a daughter/grandparent type relationship with them. You don't have to spend a lot of time doing this, but drop by on occasion and spend time with them while the wife is present. Bringing her along fishing once or twice wouldn't hurt either. I doubt she would continue to always come, but i bet she'd love to be invited as it will demystify what you two are doing. I predict that she won't go more than twice and that she'll be much more secure after that. It'll be important for both her husband AND you to invite her so that she feels welcome. Leave it as an open invitation for her so she doesn't feel left out or like you two are sneaking around without an open door for her. Again, I don't think you'll see her that much.

I frequently go along as a third wheel with my friends and their wives. I'm flirtatious by nature. I flirt with my friend's wives, sometimes in front of them and sometimes not. It's all platonic, and everyone knows it. That's the key. Although my words and actions can be intermittently flirtatious, I never leave it open for interpretation that I'm open to anything other than platonic socializing. If they flirt back, I'm receptive but it's the same deal. At times, I've stated my lack of intention to a friend - just to clarify. Now, I don't need to. My friends do and have trusted me to take their wives on "dates" to keep them entertained when they are out of town. We spend time alone together as friends and there is no question of trust, and that's with sexual overtones. I don't recommend the open flirting with your friend and his wife, but a similar level of unquestionable trust is what you want to cultivate in any three way relationship (which is what you are in - like it or not). Also, I don't recommend the lack of intention statements in this circumstance unless the suspicion isn't able to be overcome with simple familiarity with his wife. She might just 'adopt' you. Again, cultivate the grand-daughter vibe. Try that first, and all non-verbal methods of communicating your platonic intentions. You should get fairly far with that. If that does't work out, PM me.

Last edited by golgi1; 05-30-2014 at 12:20 AM..
 
Old 05-30-2014, 03:17 AM
 
3,637 posts, read 2,682,506 times
Reputation: 4300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0 View Post
To quote Braunwyn, "Stop assuming."
No one is assuming anything - least of all me. The point is that the issue lies with the internal dynamic of the relationship. The husband and the wife. The OP is doing nothing wrong by simply maintaining a friendship.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0 View Post
Do you really think she posted up here just for the lot of us to say "Ehhh don't worry about it"?
Her motivation for posting is irrelevant to my reply or my advice. The fast is she is doing nothing wrong here. At all. And should just keep on doing what she is doing - and being who she is being.

Thankfully - having read the OPs post following yours - this appears to be _exactly_ The advice she is going with.
 
Old 05-30-2014, 06:24 AM
 
Location: TX
6,493 posts, read 5,217,417 times
Reputation: 2618
Quote:
Originally Posted by monumentus View Post
No one is assuming anything - least of all me. The point is that the issue lies with the internal dynamic of the relationship. The husband and the wife. The OP is doing nothing wrong by simply maintaining a friendship.
Well you did assume, that the OP could not make things better between her friend and his wife. True that she is not morally obligated to fix his relationship. Also true that she's not doing anything wrong. I don't know who made that assertion, however; it wasn't me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monumentus View Post
The fast is she is doing nothing wrong here. At all. And should just keep on doing what she is doing - and being who she is being.

Thankfully - having read the OPs post following yours - this appears to be _exactly_ The advice she is going with.
Heh. Reading it again for myself, it appears she followed both of our advice. I wouldn't have it any other way. If I were her, I'd try what I could to make the situation better, and then just let it be if that didn't work. At least now the wife cannot say to the husband, "I find it suspicious that you never once invited me" or something to that effect.
 
Old 06-06-2014, 03:08 AM
 
3,637 posts, read 2,682,506 times
Reputation: 4300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0 View Post
Well you did assume, that the OP could not make things better between her friend and his wife.
I assumed nothing - as I said. Repeating over and over I did is not magically going to change history. My position is that there is no onus on the OP to change anything. Whether the OP can or can not change anything is nothing to do with the position I have been writing here since the first post.

My point is simple - the OP is doing nothing wrong and she has no onus to resolve the situation between this man and his partner at all. It is for them to resolve themselves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0 View Post
If I were her, I'd try what I could to make the situation better
A world of pain can be built on a foundation of good intentions. By attempting to improve the situation she could in fact compound it and make it worse. She should stay out of the marriage dynamics of others and allow them to resolve it themselves - unless they specifically ASK her for something in which case she can decide whether to acquiesce or not.
 
Old 06-06-2014, 10:56 AM
 
Location: NW Indiana
40,158 posts, read 15,122,376 times
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