Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Non-Romantic Relationships
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-21-2014, 01:01 PM
 
9,238 posts, read 22,842,854 times
Reputation: 22693

Advertisements

Let me be clear: when I mentioned the "formal" things I like and long for, in no way did I state or imply that I also would like or long for the negative things from the same time period!!!

If someone says they like fashions from the 1950s, why would you think that must also mean they like the racism of the 1950s?

If someone likes something nice about the 1850s, why would you assume that they must like slavery?

I never said that I liked the way women didn't have many rights in Jane Austen's time.
I said I liked how people treated each other with respect.

I never said children should be beaten into submission, just that I think they should be taught good manners and respect for elders.

Sheesh! some people really search for things to get p*ssed off about, and if they don't find them, they make them up!

Last edited by Tracysherm; 05-21-2014 at 01:28 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-21-2014, 01:20 PM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
3,879 posts, read 8,369,490 times
Reputation: 5179
Quote:
Originally Posted by TracySam View Post
We've had a number of threads that touch upon this issue from all different perspectives, and I see them as all part of one over-arching issue: the increasing informality in our society.
...Does anyone else agree with me, even in part? Do you wish we still had some more formality to our social interactions?
Yes, I do agree, to an extent. I've put my specific responses in blue below.

Hardly anyone dresses up for things anymore. YES!! I hate when people don't dress up for court and funerals. I mean someone has died. You can't put on a nice shirt?!

People scoff at the idea of wearing "professional attire" to interviews and in the workplace. And they will not get hired.

Fewer people seem to care about proper language, usage, spelling, and grammar. HUGE pet peeve. especially on forums like these.

Too many people hug people at every greeting, even people they hardly know.
I love to hug. I find its a nice way to break the ice with people, even if I don't know them well.

Rules for kids are more and more lax (ex. they can be picky eaters and the parents allow it).
I agree with some of this. WE NEVER disrespected out parents growing up, lest way up end walking funny. But I do kinda wish my mom respected that I didn't like certain foods instead of trying to force them on me. Then maybe she wouldn't have found them in the bottom of the trash later!

We think nothing of seeing famous people, even our President, in very casual, even unprofessional behavior.
This doesn't bother me much. I like seeing how public figures and celebrities are just real people like us.


Public displays of affection, even sexual affection are "normal," and if you're annoyed by them, there must eb something wrong with you.
This also does not bother me. As long as its not too sexual.


People dressing appropriately for dinner and special events. Sure, dressing up for dinner when it's just your own nuclear family might be extreme. But if you have guests, wouldn't it be nice for everyone to dress up? I mean, show some respect for your hosts and your guests.
I try to look nice when we're having people over and on holidays. Would be nice if others did the same.

People, both wealthy and poor, being taught manners, and expected to show them. Everyone called their elders and people they aren't acquainted with "Madam" and "Sir." Not "yo," "dude," or "hey you."
Agreed. I plan on teaching my child to do this.


Couples might have separate bedrooms. Okay, I know I'm in the minority here, but I never saw the purpose in couples having to sleep together. Of course there's the fun stuff we all enjoy in bed. But after that's over, I'd much rather we retire to our separate beds to stretch out and be comfortable. No, we choose to get elbowed and kicked, sleeping next to someone snoring, making us hot & sweaty, and disturbing our sleep. I'd much rather have my own room, and have my husband "pay a call" on me, and then leave. Or preferably, I'd pay a call on him, and then leave, so my own bed isn't messed up.

You lost me here. Nope. I love sleeping and cuddling up next to my hubby. We both snore but sleep through each other and we both have acclimated to each other so we need the same room temp. Sharing sheets is no issue. I love it. I think its one of the biggest pros of being in a relationship. If the bed gets messed up, BONUS!!

I even like when married couples would call each other "Mr.__" and "Mrs.___." Yes, that kind of formality would be over-the-top today, but it sure seemed to help couples treat each other respectfully. Even if you get into a serious fight, you're less likely to get nasty and strike a low-blow when you're referring to your partner as "Mrs." or "Mr."

Huh? Really? TO each other? Naw, I lprefer silly, lovey-dovey pet names. You're Shmoopie!

In a professional setting, you would call your superior "Mr." or "Mrs." Today we call the CEO "Bob" and our immediate boss "Katie." You didn't expect the president of your company or your boss to be your buddy.

Naw, I hated that too. I like the informal.

Even poor people observed certain rules & expectations of civility. It wasn't just a "snooty rich people thing." People had at least rough concepts of honor and decency. The boundaries of what each person or group considered honorable or decent or acceptable might have varied a little, but there were basic agreed-upon concepts. For example, getting into a loud argument in public would be considered embarrassing to people from every social stratum.

Kids were expected to obey their parents and other adults in authority. They had to show respect. If your mother or father said to eat that piece of food that you dislike, you ate it. If you tried to argue, you'd experience punishment. If you acted up in school, the teachers could take action and your parents would be in full agreement. None of this meant that parents didn't love their kids as much as parents today. In fact, it shows they loved them so much that they wanted to ensure they became successful, productive, honorable citizens.

I agree kids should respect parents and adults but I like the idea of adults incorporating kids feelings and needs in things and it not being so authoritarian.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-21-2014, 01:24 PM
 
Location: Up above the world so high!
45,218 posts, read 100,495,521 times
Reputation: 40198
Quote:
Originally Posted by TracySam View Post
We've had a number of threads that touch upon this issue from all different perspectives, and I see them as all part of one over-arching issue: the increasing informality in our society.

Hardly anyone dresses up for things anymore.
People scoff at the idea of wearing "professional attire" to interviews and in the workplace.
Fewer people seem to care about proper language, usage, spelling, and grammar.
Too many people hug people at every greeting, even people they hardly know.
Rules for kids are more and more lax (ex. they can be picky eaters and the parents allow it).
We think nothing of seeing famous people, even our President, in very casual, even unprofessional behavior.
The whole idea of etiquette and good manners is rejected by more and more people.
Public displays of affection, even sexual affection are "normal," and if you're annoyed by them, there must eb something wrong with you.
Etc, etc, etc.

I recently re-read a Jane Austen book, and re-watched the movie based on it, and I was suddenly struck with a longing for the "formality" in their society. Of course to people today, this formality would be an extreme, and even I would bristle at some of it. But I feel like something has really been lost. I also like the formality in Downton Abbey, which was closer to our time, being in the 20th century.

But I like the ideas of:

People dressing appropriately for dinner and special events. Sure, dressing up for dinner when it's just your own nuclear family might be extreme. But if you have guests, wouldn't it be nice for everyone to dress up? I mean, show some respect for your hosts and your guests.

People, both wealthy and poor, being taught manners, and expected to show them. Everyone called their elders and people they aren't acquainted with "Madam" and "Sir." Not "yo," "dude," or "hey you."

There was a nice "bubble" around people regarding physical contact. You didn't hug strangers, casual friends, or colleagues. A couple beginning to date might hold hands, or walk arm-in-arm. Of course, I don't doubt they still engaged in sex outside of marriage, but it was kept private, not on display, and not pushed out into people's faces. Public displays of affection, like excessive slurpy tongue-kissing, were considered vulgar.

Couples might have separate bedrooms. Okay, I know I'm in the minority here, but I never saw the purpose in couples having to sleep together. Of course there's the fun stuff we all enjoy in bed. But after that's over, I'd much rather we retire to our separate beds to stretch out and be comfortable. No, we choose to get elbowed and kicked, sleeping next to someone snoring, making us hot & sweaty, and disturbing our sleep. I'd much rather have my own room, and have my husband "pay a call" on me, and then leave. Or preferably, I'd pay a call on him, and then leave, so my own bed isn't messed up.

I even like when married couples would call each other "Mr.__" and "Mrs.___." Yes, that kind of formality would be over-the-top today, but it sure seemed to help couples treat each other respectfully. Even if you get into a serious fight, you're less likely to get nasty and strike a low-blow when you're referring to your partner as "Mrs." or "Mr."

In a professional setting, you would call your superior "Mr." or "Mrs." Today we call the CEO "Bob" and our immediate boss "Katie." You didn't expect the president of your company or your boss to be your buddy.

Even poor people observed certain rules & expectations of civility. It wasn't just a "snooty rich people thing." People had at least rough concepts of honor and decency. The boundaries of what each person or group considered honorable or decent or acceptable might have varied a little, but there were basic agreed-upon concepts. For example, getting into a loud argument in public would be considered embarrassing to people from every social stratum.

Kids were expected to obey their parents and other adults in authority. They had to show respect. If your mother or father said to eat that piece of food that you dislike, you ate it. If you tried to argue, you'd experience punishment. If you acted up in school, the teachers could take action and your parents would be in full agreement. None of this meant that parents didn't love their kids as much as parents today. In fact, it shows they loved them so much that they wanted to ensure they became successful, productive, honorable citizens.



Does anyone else agree with me, even in part? Do you wish we still had some more formality to our social interactions?
I do.

I especially wish parents were teaching their children manners these days.

Not that some aren't, but it's not the majority any more
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-21-2014, 01:27 PM
 
9,238 posts, read 22,842,854 times
Reputation: 22693
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScarletG View Post
You are over romanticizing an era and overlooking some truly horrible stuff that went on, all under the guise of 'civility'....and nothing to do with actual politeness. I'll gladly take modern life....with all it's current challenges....over fake rules and mores. (Your idea of being married and 'calling on your husband' in his own room so as not to mess up your bed...ah...that strikes of a mental disorder.)

Dress up if you want....beat your children to obey your every word, look down your nose at those that aren't of your social class and standing and keep your husband at arms length so you don't have to deal with intimacy. No one is stopping you, but thankfully the rest of us don't have to be like you.

I felt the need to respond to this one specifically.

No, I did not, and would not get hit with a "fit" of "the vapours."

I was not romanticizing a whole era. I was saying I like, and perhaps romanticize the good manners and sense of interpersonal respect that was more common in that era.

I'm quite sure that I'm not the only member of a couple who prefers sleeping alone over sleeping with my partner. It doesn't mean I have a mental illness, and it doesn't mean I don't love my partner. I just like a good night's sleep, and that's better accomplished without some other body taking up space in my bed. It's not that I'm right or you're right. We both would have lots of people agreeing with us.

Again, it's the politeness I am saying I like, not any nefarious stuff that might happen underneath anyone's politeness. You make it sound like when people are polite and civil, that it's necessarily fake. I disagree. Of course there always were, and always will be people who are not genuine. But many people were, and are polite and respectful because they actually mean it, and feel that way. I reject the notion that manners=artificial.


I don't recall saying that children should be beaten. Just that I think they should be taught good manners and respect. Wanting children to obey the parents that love them and want what's best for them is not an indication of abuse.

And where on earth did I say or imply that I look down at other social classes????? I clearly said how I admired how people of all social classes held similar expectations for social propriety. Yelling and fighting in public would be seen as improper, not just by the wealthy but by the other classes as well. Everyone seemed to have a higher standard for civility.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-21-2014, 01:39 PM
 
147 posts, read 326,916 times
Reputation: 301
I thought about this very thing when I was watching a documentary about the Titanic this past weekend...I was kind of romanticizing how it must have been to "dress for dinner." That being said, as a woman, I could not imagine having to schlep my corset, formal dresses for dinner, hats, gloves, shoes and other accessories on a trip. Can you imagine the luggage fees today to try to pull that off?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-21-2014, 01:55 PM
 
9,238 posts, read 22,842,854 times
Reputation: 22693
Yes, I agree, I wouldn't want to wear a corset, but I know it wouldn't kill me to dress nicely and actually wear shoes if I was having guests over to dinner. It's also a nicer dining experience in a restaurant when people are not in jeans and raunchy t-shirts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-21-2014, 02:01 PM
 
24,245 posts, read 10,556,999 times
Reputation: 46319
Even poor people observed certain rules & expectations of civility. It wasn't just a "snooty rich people thing." People had at least rough concepts of honor and decency. The boundaries of what each person or group considered honorable or decent or acceptable might have varied a little, but there were basic agreed-upon concepts. For example, getting into a loud argument in public would be considered embarrassing to people from every social stratum.

Have you been to Black Friday at WalMart?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-21-2014, 02:03 PM
 
Location: oHIo
624 posts, read 761,374 times
Reputation: 1333
I just saw a bit on my local news affiliate about a special ceremony to honor fallen police officers. Only about half of those in attendance looked like they made any effort to dress for the occasion. One guy was sitting there with a baseball cap on.

I'm no square, but I was taken aback by seeming lack of respect for the sanctity of that particular event. The last time I had the misfortune of attending a funeral, it was the same thing. Teenagers in nylon gym shorts, girls/women dressed like they were going to the club....sad.

I grew up poor, but my Mother was a stickler for dressing appropriately for the occasion. I wasn't allowed to wear jeans to family/holiday dinners at my Grandparent's house until I was an older teenager.

Last edited by Ten Cat; 05-21-2014 at 02:12 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-21-2014, 02:04 PM
 
9,238 posts, read 22,842,854 times
Reputation: 22693
Threestep, that perfectly illustrates my point. Back in Jane Austen's day, or in the world of Downton Abbey, that kind of behavior would be unheard of, and both the rich and poor would be disgusted.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-21-2014, 02:10 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
1,659 posts, read 1,653,659 times
Reputation: 6149
Quote:
Originally Posted by TracySam View Post
Let me be clear: when I mentioned the "formal" things I like and long for, in no way did I state or imply that I also would like or long for the negative things from the same time period!!!

If someone says they like fashions from the 1950s, why would you think that must also mean they like the racism of the 1950s?

If someone likes something nice about the 1850s, why would you assume that they must like slavery?

I never said that I liked the way women didn't have many rights in Jane Austen's time.
I said I liked how people treated each other with respect.

I never said children should be beaten into submission, just that I think they should be taught good manners and respect for elders.

Sheesh! some people really search for things to get p*ssed off about, and if they don't find them, they make them up!
I never said that Where did you get that I was accusing you of any of those things? What I said was that the golden age of the 50's which you seem to pine for had it's share of ugliness that you seem to be forgetting all in the name of manners and gentility. How the 50's got to be the golden age some people yearn for is beyond me.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Non-Romantic Relationships

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:03 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top