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Old 06-08-2014, 06:27 AM
 
Location: Planet Earth
2,776 posts, read 3,041,203 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post

I used the example of the daughter asking her mother to deal with the ex rather than setting clear boundaries herself. Wait, you say - she didn't ask that. She just asked her mother to help her out so she could get to work on time. But this is exactly my point - that's NOT all that she asked. I think the BETTER mother, the one most determined to help her grown daughter stand on her own two feet independently and strongly and with dignity, would take this opportunity to help her struggling daughter learn how to establish healthier boundaries (something that would have come in handy prior to her marriage and divorce!), rather than help her continue on a path of weakness and codependency.

It's not just about setting our own boundaries - it's about helping others in a more productive and healthy way.
I see your point---however I am one who is a "pushover"....even animals push me around. I need to learn how to set boundaries. For people like you mention, above, and myself, it's an epiphany, to learn, one can be somewhat in control of a situation or NOT allow people to impose their will on weaker people.
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Old 06-08-2014, 06:39 AM
 
26,142 posts, read 31,110,978 times
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Old 06-08-2014, 06:45 AM
 
Location: Planet Earth
2,776 posts, read 3,041,203 times
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Symbiotic relationship?
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Old 06-08-2014, 06:49 AM
 
26,142 posts, read 31,110,978 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlowerPower00 View Post
Symbiotic relationship?
That would also be from your post as being a 'pushover even with animals"
There's your care and feeding of your monkey.
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Old 06-08-2014, 07:00 AM
 
1,915 posts, read 3,977,283 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlowerPower00 View Post
I am, extremely, scatterbrained AND have difficulty setting boundaries with people. I know, I appreciate advice on HOW to do these things: remembering and boundaries.

So, what I am saying, is some people need extra suggestions and help.
Children need extra suggestions and help, not mature adults.

How long are forgetful people going to rely on others? My bet is until the line is drawn.

Those that often forget simple tasks should start leaving yourself a note as reminder instead of bothering others, pulling them into carrying your baggage. Call it what you want, but the best way to help an adult is to let them work out their self-sabotaging issues. Now, if you have a medical problem, that's a different story.

My younger brother and I are polar opposites when it comes to time management. He has always been someone that doesn't respect time while I always make a point to be on time or early for planned events. It takes him an hour or more to take a shower and get dressed. He is constantly late, holding up others. He's been this way his entire life. It used to frustrate the hell out of me, until I realized he was doing it with intent. I no longer felt the need to prompt him and I stopped making it my problem.

On our family vacations, you will find everyone sitting in the lobby of a hotel waiting FOREVER for him..... everyone but me! I see this type of behavior as abusive and controlling. I'll give someone a few minutes, but will not be made to miss dinner reservations or a concert.

If something isn't important to him, he could care less of how his actions impact others! Love him, but I refuse be his hostage.
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Old 06-08-2014, 07:05 AM
 
Location: Planet Earth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thursday007 View Post
That would also be from your post as being a 'pushover even with animals"
There's your care and feeding of your monkey.
I appreciate your humor.
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Old 06-08-2014, 07:07 AM
 
Location: Planet Earth
2,776 posts, read 3,041,203 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kharing View Post
Children need extra suggestions and help, not mature adults.



If something isn't important to him, he could care less of how his actions impact others! Love him, but I refuse be his hostage.
I am open to suggestions as an adult! Anything that can improve my performance in this thing called life is welcome.


You know what? That last line of your post helps ME deal with people...I want to help, I want to understand. It is truly hard to discern who is struggling or those who don't care. NOW...I know what to do in a certain situation. Thank-you.
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Old 06-08-2014, 07:19 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
67,652 posts, read 60,379,375 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlowerPower00 View Post
I see your point---however I am one who is a "pushover"....even animals push me around. I need to learn how to set boundaries. For people like you mention, above, and myself, it's an epiphany, to learn, one can be somewhat in control of a situation or NOT allow people to impose their will on weaker people.
Well, I hope thinking through this concept can help you in the future.

It's not my goal or intent to get out of helping people who genuinely need help. But let's look back on the example I gave earlier of my neighbor asking me to go pick up their mail every day rather than putting in a mail hold online. Getting online and submitting a mail hold would take her two minutes tops (and trust me, she's very computer savvy). Maybe she didn't know that was an option. But surely she knows that mail can be held! She was leaving town in several days - it's not like she just forgot and at the last minute needed some help (hey, these things happen). She had plenty of time to put in a mail hold request - even if she thought she had to drive over to the post office and do it in person. Instead, she apparently thought it was a better idea to have her neighbor walk over every day for a week to check her mail and hold it all for her.

Now - this same neighbor had asked me once before to watch for packages placed on her front step while they were gone for a week. This is different - you can't put in a mail hold request with FedEx or UPS. Plus she had ordered something which should have already been in and yet for some reason hadn't arrived yet, and sure enough, it did come in while she was gone and I willingly and cheerfully went over and got it and held the package for her till they got back.

This same family has some issues with "helplessness." I'll give you another real life example, so you can better understand the sort of people I'm dealing with (successfully, I might add!).

A few months ago I had surgery on my right Achilles tendon. Now, I knew this was coming and took great pains to be very prepared to be as independent as possible, even though I had to be completely non weight bearing for six weeks and my husband would be gone three weeks of that time. I hired a housekeeper and a landscaping guy and before my husband left, he made sure that I had a great three week supply of easy to cook meals and all the essentials as well as some little treats. My housekeeper also knew that part of her duties might include running errands for groceries or that sort of thing (for which she would be paid well). Of course if there was an emergency - for instance if I fell and hurt myself or got sick - I would have to call someone to take me to the doctor, but we planned well for as many scenarios as we could possibly imagine, because I wasn't going to be able to drive.

Anyway, one night shortly after my husband left, after I had gotten myself and my ice pack and my crutches and all that settled on my sofa to watch a movie, with my swollen foot elevated as I had to do every night, I got a text message from my neighbor's sixteen year old daughter, asking me if I had an extra phone charger. For what sort of phone? I texted her back and asked this but I also told her that I had several phone chargers - mostly chargers that my son (now away at college) had left over here at one time or the other - maybe I had a phone charger that she could use over here. Now - this young woman knew I had had recent surgery on my foot and was pretty incapacitated.

Anyway, so she comes over. I get off the sofa and navigate to the door on the crutches and let her in. I tried to explain where the drawer was with the extra chargers in it but she clearly had no intention of going back to the guest room and opening that nightstand drawer - she was giving me the most blank look ever - so I said, "OK I'll show you," and I slowly made my way back there and pointed to the lower drawer. She didn't open it, so I put my crutches down, sat down on the bed, and opened the drawer and handed them to her. None of them fit her phone. "Wow," I said, "I'm really sorry. Oh well - we tried!"

This is when she pushed the envelope just a bit too far. She said, "I really need a charger. Mine died on me." I said, "Well, I'm sure they sell them at WalMart." She said, "It's nine o'clock at night. My mom won't take me to WalMart at this time of night." I thought she meant that her mom wouldn't go because there are other, younger kids in the house and she didn't want to leave them or bundle them all up to take them, so I said, "Is your dad home?" "Yes," she said, "But he won't take me either." She was giving me this very pointed stare. I just stared back at her. Then I said, "WalMart is open 24/7. And you have your drivers' license. Why don't you go get one?" "They won't let me drive our car at night," she said. "And I really need a charger. I could drive your car over there."

Look - I couldn't help her any more. And not only that - if I had been ABLE to drive her, I wouldn't have done so. Clearly there was some bigger issue at play here. She had two parents - both able to drive - sitting at the house right across the street, who for whatever reason were not willing to drive her themselves. I'm sorry, but I'm not interjecting myself into that scenario. Someone was dysfunctional - not sure who - but I'm not getting dragged into all that drama.

This is a family which consistently has "emergencies." My husband and I have come to realize that about them. They are helpless and inept on many different levels. One time we looked out our front door and the father was trying to cut down a pretty large tree - by himself with an electric chain saw. And it was leaning toward the HOUSE! My husband darted out the door and said, "Hey, man - first of all, it will take you all day to try to cut that tree down with that small, electric chain saw. But even more importantly, if you do succeed, it's going to land on your house." The guy then asked, "Well, can I borrow your chain saw?" "No way," my husband said, "for a couple of reasons. I don't let anyone borrow my chain saw - but under normal circumstances, I'd help you out myself. However, this is a big job and the tree is already leaning toward your house. Neither of us are tree experts and I don't feel comfortable taking this sort of risk with your property. You need to call a professional." "I don't know anyone like that," the guy said, so my husband actually gave him the name and number of one.

A little while later we noticed that he was out there again, trying to cut that tree down with the same chain saw (and he was also cutting it at chest level rather than low to the ground - what the heck?). My husband went back out there and said, "Did you call that guy?" "Yes, but he wanted $400 to do the job." OK now listen - we live in a very nice neighborhood. No one living out here would fit the definition of "poor." But this family CONSISTENTLY poor mouths -"We have five kids - it's hard to make ends meet" is a constant refrain from them. But the mother was choosing to stay home and have and raise five kids - and they want MORE kids! So, sorry - I'm not buying the poor story - not when I know that they are actively trying to have MORE KIDS! Don't tell me you don't have the money to take care of your property and yet you think you can afford more kids! COME ON, MAN.

I honestly think this guy was hoping we'd chip in or something. NO. Sorry, but no. We did not accept the care and feeding of that monkey, and apparently no one else did either because the next day the professional tree guy was out there removing the tree. I'm assuming he got paid to do so.
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Old 06-08-2014, 07:30 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
67,652 posts, read 60,379,375 times
Reputation: 101025
Quote:
Originally Posted by kharing View Post
Children need extra suggestions and help, not mature adults.

How long are forgetful people going to rely on others? My bet is until the line is drawn.

Those that often forget simple tasks should start leaving yourself a note as reminder instead of bothering others, pulling them into carrying your baggage. Call it what you want, but the best way to help an adult is to let them work out their self-sabotaging issues. Now, if you have a medical problem, that's a different story.

My younger brother and I are polar opposites when it comes to time management. He has always been someone that doesn't respect time while I always make a point to be on time or early for planned events. It takes him an hour or more to take a shower and get dressed. He is constantly late, holding up others. He's been this way his entire life. It used to frustrate the hell out of me, until I realized he was doing it with intent. I no longer felt the need to prompt him and I stopped making it my problem.

On our family vacations, you will find everyone sitting in the lobby of a hotel waiting FOREVER for him..... everyone but me! I see this type of behavior as abusive and controlling. I'll give someone a few minutes, but will not be made to miss dinner reservations or a concert.

If something isn't important to him, he could care less of how his actions impact others! Love him, but I refuse be his hostage.
OMG, your post reminded me of a gnarly uncle on my husband's side of the family.

I never could understand why everyone catered to him. He was CONSISTENTLY late for get togethers - I'm taking about two hours late for things like THANKSGIVING DINNER. He also claimed to be allergic to onions, and paprika, and garlic, and a variety of other common ingredients (don't know if this is true or not but I suspect this was exaggerated at the very least). Now listen - if I was allergic to so many common things, I'd just pack my own meal rather than expect people at a POTLUCK STYLE GET TOGETHER to remember all my idiosyncrasies. But not him - oh no. He expected everyone to wait, and for everyone to cater to him. He expected people to provide two forms of dressing, for example - one with onions and one without.

Well, that all came to an end when we hosted Thanksgiving dinner at our house. This was not without warning. First of all, we told everyone that dinner was going to be served at 1 pm sharp. So at that time, we said, "Ok, dinner's ready - let's all sit down!" and you should have seen the consternation and alarm on some of the faces! "But Uncle Buck's not here!" "Well," my husband said, "He knows that dinner's at 1 o'clock." "Shouldn't we wait a bit longer?" a cousin asked. My husband said, "He's got a cell phone. Has he called anyone here and said he's stuck in traffic, or has a flat tire, or that his dishwasher flooded his kitchen this morning, so he might be a bit late?" Of course not. So we sat down and my husband said grace and we ate.

Boy, was Buck surprised when he showed up an hour later. We cheerfully said, "There's plenty to eat! Help yourself! But by the way, the dressing has onions, so you may want to avoid that. Everything else should be fine." "I can't have any dressing?" he said, "And everything is cold!" I said, "I didn't say you can't have any dressing. I said it has onions in it. And all you need to do is pop your plate in the microwave for about a minute. By the way, what do you want to drink - I'll get it for you!"

Do you know that old coot sat down and ATE THAT DRESSING? Now what's up with that? Oh and POUTY - he was so pouty all afternoon, and when he got ready to leave he said, "I have to go home - my stomach is upset from those onions." OH BROTHER.

No - I do not accept the care and feeding of that monkey.
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Old 06-08-2014, 07:57 AM
 
Location: Planet Earth
2,776 posts, read 3,041,203 times
Reputation: 5022
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
Well, I hope thinking through this concept can help you in the future.

It's not my goal or intent to get out of helping people who genuinely need help. But let's look back on the example I gave earlier of my neighbor asking me to go pick up their mail every day rather than putting in a mail hold online. Getting online and submitting a mail hold would take her two minutes tops (and trust me, she's very computer savvy). Maybe she didn't know that was an option. But surely she knows that mail can be held! She was leaving town in several days - it's not like she just forgot and at the last minute needed some help (hey, these things happen). She had plenty of time to put in a mail hold request - even if she thought she had to drive over to the post office and do it in person. Instead, she apparently thought it was a better idea to have her neighbor walk over every day for a week to check her mail and hold it all for her.

Now - this same neighbor had asked me once before to watch for packages placed on her front step while they were gone for a week. This is different - you can't put in a mail hold request with FedEx or UPS. Plus she had ordered something which should have already been in and yet for some reason hadn't arrived yet, and sure enough, it did come in while she was gone and I willingly and cheerfully went over and got it and held the package for her till they got back.

This same family has some issues with "helplessness." I'll give you another real life example, so you can better understand the sort of people I'm dealing with (successfully, I might add!).

A few months ago I had surgery on my right Achilles tendon. Now, I knew this was coming and took great pains to be very prepared to be as independent as possible, even though I had to be completely non weight bearing for six weeks and my husband would be gone three weeks of that time. I hired a housekeeper and a landscaping guy and before my husband left, he made sure that I had a great three week supply of easy to cook meals and all the essentials as well as some little treats. My housekeeper also knew that part of her duties might include running errands for groceries or that sort of thing (for which she would be paid well). Of course if there was an emergency - for instance if I fell and hurt myself or got sick - I would have to call someone to take me to the doctor, but we planned well for as many scenarios as we could possibly imagine, because I wasn't going to be able to drive.

Anyway, one night shortly after my husband left, after I had gotten myself and my ice pack and my crutches and all that settled on my sofa to watch a movie, with my swollen foot elevated as I had to do every night, I got a text message from my neighbor's sixteen year old daughter, asking me if I had an extra phone charger. For what sort of phone? I texted her back and asked this but I also told her that I had several phone chargers - mostly chargers that my son (now away at college) had left over here at one time or the other - maybe I had a phone charger that she could use over here. Now - this young woman knew I had had recent surgery on my foot and was pretty incapacitated.

Anyway, so she comes over. I get off the sofa and navigate to the door on the crutches and let her in. I tried to explain where the drawer was with the extra chargers in it but she clearly had no intention of going back to the guest room and opening that nightstand drawer - she was giving me the most blank look ever - so I said, "OK I'll show you," and I slowly made my way back there and pointed to the lower drawer. She didn't open it, so I put my crutches down, sat down on the bed, and opened the drawer and handed them to her. None of them fit her phone. "Wow," I said, "I'm really sorry. Oh well - we tried!"

This is when she pushed the envelope just a bit too far. She said, "I really need a charger. Mine died on me." I said, "Well, I'm sure they sell them at WalMart." She said, "It's nine o'clock at night. My mom won't take me to WalMart at this time of night." I thought she meant that her mom wouldn't go because there are other, younger kids in the house and she didn't want to leave them or bundle them all up to take them, so I said, "Is your dad home?" "Yes," she said, "But he won't take me either." She was giving me this very pointed stare. I just stared back at her. Then I said, "WalMart is open 24/7. And you have your drivers' license. Why don't you go get one?" "They won't let me drive our car at night," she said. "And I really need a charger. I could drive your car over there."

Look - I couldn't help her any more. And not only that - if I had been ABLE to drive her, I wouldn't have done so. Clearly there was some bigger issue at play here. She had two parents - both able to drive - sitting at the house right across the street, who for whatever reason were not willing to drive her themselves. I'm sorry, but I'm not interjecting myself into that scenario. Someone was dysfunctional - not sure who - but I'm not getting dragged into all that drama.

This is a family which consistently has "emergencies." My husband and I have come to realize that about them. They are helpless and inept on many different levels. One time we looked out our front door and the father was trying to cut down a pretty large tree - by himself with an electric chain saw. And it was leaning toward the HOUSE! My husband darted out the door and said, "Hey, man - first of all, it will take you all day to try to cut that tree down with that small, electric chain saw. But even more importantly, if you do succeed, it's going to land on your house." The guy then asked, "Well, can I borrow your chain saw?" "No way," my husband said, "for a couple of reasons. I don't let anyone borrow my chain saw - but under normal circumstances, I'd help you out myself. However, this is a big job and the tree is already leaning toward your house. Neither of us are tree experts and I don't feel comfortable taking this sort of risk with your property. You need to call a professional." "I don't know anyone like that," the guy said, so my husband actually gave him the name and number of one.

A little while later we noticed that he was out there again, trying to cut that tree down with the same chain saw (and he was also cutting it at chest level rather than low to the ground - what the heck?). My husband went back out there and said, "Did you call that guy?" "Yes, but he wanted $400 to do the job." OK now listen - we live in a very nice neighborhood. No one living out here would fit the definition of "poor." But this family CONSISTENTLY poor mouths -"We have five kids - it's hard to make ends meet" is a constant refrain from them. But the mother was choosing to stay home and have and raise five kids - and they want MORE kids! So, sorry - I'm not buying the poor story - not when I know that they are actively trying to have MORE KIDS! Don't tell me you don't have the money to take care of your property and yet you think you can afford more kids! COME ON, MAN.

I honestly think this guy was hoping we'd chip in or something. NO. Sorry, but no. We did not accept the care and feeding of that monkey, and apparently no one else did either because the next day the professional tree guy was out there removing the tree. I'm assuming he got paid to do so.
I, clearly, see your point. The 16 y.o needs to learn patience and it sounds like it is a lifestyle for them to be helpless and use people.
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