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After reading your post, all I can say is many kudoes to you for going the distance with your mother, for sticking it out while you were standing up to her bullying, adjusting your responses to her as you needed to, instead of throwing up your hands in disgust and deciding you'd be done with her for good! I'm sure it would have been easier for you to declare yourself done with her for good, and I don't think too many people would have blamed you for doing so. But you know, both you and your mother came out the winners in the long run.
Thank you. My life is enriched by my parents - even though fifteen years ago I wouldn't have believed this could ever be true. And I just talked with my brother for over an hour today and it was such a great conversation! Yes, he's institutionalized and yes, I helped put him there - I guess he could be justified in hating me but instead, our entire family has responded well over time to positive, emotionally healthy parameters.
I'm so grateful that all of these people are in my life.
Kathryn---I read your post yesterday and did some thinking about it.
Kudos to you for being able to train your mother. It sounds like your father didn't try to run interference either. I'm sure that it would have been difficult for you to train your mother had he done so.
I'll give an example. My mother died 15 years ago but she was a narcissistic alcoholic who was good at making life miserable for others. My father, who is still alive, was the perfect enabler. Whenever I would stand up to my mother, he would jump into the fray and take her side. Then, later he would tell me that he agreed with me but please, don't say anything to her because he would never hear the end of it. So...trying to train her would have been a waste of time for me---especially when the rest of the family wouldn't get on board or at least be supportive.
My mother would often lie about me to others. My aunt (her sister) ended up barely speaking to me due to my mother's lies. Heck, my aunt refused to ask for my side of the story. Part of the problem was that my aunt was the favored daughter---the more talented one, the better looking one (according to my grandfather). So, my mother resented her. My aunt knew this so she was constantly defending my mother's actions (still does long after my mother's death).
With all that going on, training my mother would have been a waste of time---never mind emotionally draining. So...when they retired to the other end of the country, I only saw them infrequently and would go weeks between phone calls. It was so nice to have that physical distance!
So...again, I'm glad it all worked out for you in the end. You certainly have the patience of Job.
You probably already know this, but I think I need to point out that it wasn't just your mother who needed training - it was your father as well. He was as much the problem as she was, and you needed to call his hand on it as furiously as you called your mother's hand. Maybe you did this, I don't know. But boy, do I recognize that whole enabler thing with your dad and believe me, I know how difficult that is to deal with, ESPECIALLY when the enabler has "secretly" comforted you and taken your side - you feel like the last thing you want to do is alienate THEM when at least they SEEM to understand the situation.
But they really don't - they're really just throwing us under the bus because they don't want to have to be firm with the other person. Gee, thanks a lot, Dad - way to treat your kid, right? This passive aggressive behavior is just as destructive as the other person's aggressive/aggressive behavior - and it's less honest in fact, it's DISHONEST.
Did you ever confront your dad about his enabling? Did you ever say, "Hey, Dad - you've been throwing me under the bus for years, and I really really really am sick of it." I hope you did that - sometimes these enablers like to think of themselves as long suffering sacrificers - look what they have put up with all these years just to keep the peace! I call BS on that.
I don't know what to tell you about your aunt - I'd say she was expendable - or at least not a person who should be the focus of your efforts. Family things can get very complicated. I'm sorry you had to deal with all that.
Location: Huntersville/Charlotte, NC and Washington, DC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon
By the way, what specifically did I state that you're "not buying?" How does anything I posted conflict with your decision to cut your losses with your dad?
Quote:
If a dysfunctional mother raised you, I can promise you that you have emotional damage from that upbringing. if you just cut her out of your life, that may feel satisfying on one level, but what have you done to "fix yourself?" What have you done to model strength and to model your values to other people?
That was the part of your OP I found most troublesome. The bolded more specifically. I don't owe other people any explanation or any "modeling" of anything. The only person I owe a thing to is myself. I owe it to myself to stay away from toxic situations to avoid being contaminated by them. I deal with the emotional damage and "fixing myself" on my own without allowing the bad influence into my life to do more damage.
That was the part of your OP I found most troublesome. The bolded more specifically. I don't owe other people any explanation or any "modeling" of anything. The only person I owe a thing to is myself. I owe it to myself to stay away from toxic situations to avoid being contaminated by them. I deal with the emotional damage and "fixing myself" on my own without allowing the bad influence into my life to do more damage.
Oh, sheeze, I didn't mean answer ME - I meant ask YOURSELF that question. No one owes me or anyone else on this board an answer to that question - I mean it to be INTROSPECTIVE as I've stated repeatedly throughout this thread.
And if you have children, you DO "owe it to them" to model strength and personal values. If you have a spouse or SO you owe them that as well to some extent. But in the end, you're right - we have to live with ourselves and our own decisions - it's just that sometimes other people do too.
Kathryn---Oh, yes! I did try to confront my Dad. His response was to shrug his shoulders and say "What was I supposed to do?" It was then that I realized that he would never get it.
Yes, indeed---he did throw us kids under the bus trying to play the role of the good guy when he should have been defending us and being firm with my mother. He never did have the courage to do the right thing in this case.
Kathryn---Oh, yes! I did try to confront my Dad. His response was to shrug his shoulders and say "What was I supposed to do?" It was then that I realized that he would never get it.
Yes, indeed---he did throw us kids under the bus trying to play the role of the good guy when he should have been defending us and being firm with my mother. He never did have the courage to do the right thing in this case.
That's very sad. I'm so sorry that he didn't come around.
For a bit of perspective, I have to "teach" my dad how to be firm with my mother over, and over, and over, and over again. It just doesn't come naturally to him - I honestly think it's an alien sort of thought pattern - though he freely admits he admires it in me and thinks I'm pretty badass. Sometimes he even says to me, "Wow, you're so mean," and I say, "No, Dad - I'm not being mean - I'm just not going to put up with the BS. You can if you want to, but when I'm around, it's not going down."
Good example was today:
My mother literally ruined their former home by allowing five - FIVE - un housebroken dogs to pee all over their wood floors for years. Now the house is on the market and everyone who walks into it immediately grimaces and says, "Wow, it STINKS in here!" But you know what - my dad let those dogs ruin that house too, because even though he KNEW they were peeing everywhere, he didn't have the balls to lay down the law with my mother. He'd say, "Now honey, these dogs should be put outside because you know they pee in the house," and she'd say, "I JUST LET THEM OUT SO OF COURSE THEY AREN'T GOING TO PEE IN HERE - WHAT ARE YOU, A DOG BEHAVIOR EXPERT? I WANT THE DOGS IN AND I'M LETTING THEM IN," and my dad would just crater.
Today, in their new house, my mom tried twice to let that dang herd of dogs into the house, and both times my dad got up calmly and immediately put them all back outside. My mother started in again, "OH SUDDENLY YOU'RE THE DOG EXPERT - THEY'RE MY DOGS TOO AND I WANT THEM IN THE HOUSE." And lo and behold, my dad said, "Nope. They pee in the house. They're not coming in the house."
The "rest of the story" is that nearly every day, I have to say, "Dad, are you letting the dogs stay in the house?" and he says, "No, but it's difficult convincing your mother that they're not able to stay indoors." I told him, "You may not be able to convince her - but in the end all you really have to do is put the dogs out."
Now - this is progress, but he's still not completely there -as evidenced by the fact that he allowed my mother to bring all five un house broken dogs to a new home. But at least he's holding firm on not letting them in the house. It's a little victory but I celebrate all little victories!
Kathryn---Oh, yes! I did try to confront my Dad. His response was to shrug his shoulders and say "What was I supposed to do?" It was then that I realized that he would never get it.
Yes, indeed---he did throw us kids under the bus trying to play the role of the good guy when he should have been defending us and being firm with my mother. He never did have the courage to do the right thing in this case.
One more thing - I had to confront my dad repeatedly. Just once wouldn't have cut it. He was in nearly COMPLETE denial of his part in the sick little cycle for several years. It took me telling him over and over again for it to begin to click. Meanwhile, he'd be calling me saying, "I miss my baby girl - please come over this weekend," and I'd say, "No, Dad. Mom is in attack mode, still trying to call me every morning to argue, and you won't stand up for me when she's around. So I'm not coming over. Sorry. You can come over to my house but you need to know that if Mom comes over and starts that mess, I'm going to tell you both to leave. If you can't handle that, you may as well stay home. I miss you too, but I'm not putting up with that from her, and I'm not putting up with you just standing there with that puzzled look on your face when she does it either."
The next weekend, he'd call again, because he wanted his life back - he wanted to be able to see "his baby girl" and he wanted to live in relative peace with his wife as well. This was uncomfortable to him and he wanted things back like they had been for years! He really just wished I'd suck it up "like he had for years" so that we could all be together in our usual dysfunctional wad. But nope. I wasn't going to deal with that anymore and if that meant not seeing them, then that was their choice, not mine. All they had to do was treat me respectfully. That's it. Why was that so hard?
So yes - I know what you mean by your description. AUGH.
I would sometimes say to my father that I didn't want to be around my mother because of her behavior. His response---She will behave this time. Ummm....maybe, maybe not.
As I said, it was a good thing that they retired to the other end of the country. It was nice having the physical distance between us!
I would sometimes say to my father that I didn't want to be around my mother because of her behavior. His response---She will behave this time. Ummm....maybe, maybe not.
As I said, it was a good thing that they retired to the other end of the country. It was nice having the physical distance between us!
No blanket statements are ever correct, sometimes the claim is correct, sometimes the person doing the "severing of ties" is the one that is bat**** crazy.
My group of friends recently had this occur where someone cut themselves out of our life blaming us for all their problems. Reality is that they kinda went off the deep-end and they turned on some of us that had always had their back.
Hoping they pull out of it but my guess is that they are headed towards rock-bottom. Oh well, I have enough people in my life that need something from me and I just don't have any energy to try to force another one onto my back.
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thing to is myself. I owe it to myself to stay away from toxic situations to avoid being contaminated by them. I deal with the emotional damage and "fixing myself" on my own without allowing the bad influence into my life to do more damage.
Sometimes he even says to me, "Wow, you're so mean," and I say, "No, Dad - I'm not being mean - I'm just not going to put up with the BS. You can if you want to, but when I'm around, it's not going down."
