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My mother considers herself a vegetarian, but eats fish. So I don't think it's all that unusual. With regards to walking someone out of the restaurant, best etiquette would probably have required you to walk them out of the restaurant, but it's nothing big enough to warrant that type of reaction.
You were probably lucky that she did take offence to your leaving them in the restaurant, because otherwise the onus would have been on you to eventually decline to meet up with them again in the future (which would have probably been more hurtful for her). Perhaps she knew on some level that you weren't enjoying the lunch so much, so she wanted to get on the defensive and drop you from the group before you could decline any future invitations.
Yup, a lot of people mistake fish-eating to be included in a vegetarian diet, but that is a mistaken notion. There's been analyses of why people think this---and granted, there are differences between fish and chicken/cows/pigs/goats, etc., but vegetarian means you eat vegetation, not animals. What your mom and these people are is pescetarian or pesco-vegetarian.
I'm really not sure she could tell I wasn't enjoying lunch so much---she's not that bright, into herself (for example, I told them how we never travel anywhere and she asked later if we had any plans to go anywhere this summer), we did stay for 90 minutes, etc.
And you are correct in that the onus would have been on me to decline future invitations, which I would absolutely hate doing since I wouldn't want to be hurtful---in this day and age, it's rare when someone reaches out, so I probably would have accepted.
tnff, your FIL sounds like a character---and I'm sure there are other things he has done. Mine was a one-time/first-time thing, not a pattern. I do think that different people function at different speeds, but your FIL does seem to be in one big rush. Not sure the time-urgency has anything to do with him feeling superior, though. Do you mean that he comes across as his time is more valuable than any one else's? Of course we all have the same 24/7...just how we choose to spend it differs. Hopefully he gets a lot done and enjoys what he is rushing off to.
But---his shoving down his food "as fast as possible" (bad for the digestion!) is not comparable to what I did. Our lunch was 90 minutes! The waitress kept coming around to see if she could clear her plates. The restaurant was going to close. Finally I had to say we would need to run. They agreed but didn't make a move to get up (not sure if they were having such a good time or whether it was just inertia//lack of social graces). So finally I had to stand up. We said our goodbyes and then walked out.
I have heard about blind/online dates where someone misportrayed themselves in terms of age/height/weight, etc., and the other person walks out immediately or after just a few minutes, saying there is no chemistry. I didn't feel we had a lot of chemistry and the reason why we were getting together in the first place (our supposedly similar diet) no longer existed, but we stayed for 90 minutes!
I have thought of one scenario where I would totally agree that it would have been wrong to walk off. If it was a restaurant where the husband would have to go get the car from far away, then of course we would have stood with her while he got the car, to keep her company and for safety purposes. This was in a not-busy strip shopping center, though, with parking right outside the restaurant...and she and her husband walked in together, so obviously she could walk in and walk out from wherever they parked.
Last edited by jazzcat22; 07-19-2015 at 08:16 AM..
Looking at the core question here - whether leaving them at the table was impolite - is truly a gray area given today's lack of social standards. Given all the changes of how people socialize (online connections, text communication, etc.) combined with the collapse of general politeness in today's culture there is no clear answer here - it is totally up to the perspective of each person.
However, in reading all these posts (like others I don't know why I find this topic so interesting, but I do!) it does appear that there is an overhwhelming response that the original email sent by the lunch meetup person was inappropriate and over the top. And I agree with that perspective. Which leaves the question of why did this person feel so offended that they had to send that email? Taking pure nuttiness off the table (I'm not saying she isn't, but for the sake of theoretical discussion let's assume she isn't), it sounds like she felt offended at a deep level, and since she couldn't call you out on that, she used the "leaving the table" example as a way to put something quantitative behind her accusation of rudeness. The OP has said several times that this person just isn't that bright both in general conversation and about her vegetarianism. In my experience, people can read when others think they are less intelligent, especially when they are called out in an inaccuracy - as you did with her mistake about being vegetarian (even though you were right). Regardless of how nice the actual words of the conversation were and the actions taken, people somehow always seem to be able pick up on this, and for some reason feeling stupid seems to be a major hotbutton for most of us (and I don't mean that in a sarcarstic way, if you look at things that provoke an emotional response being made to feel stupid is always one of them).
Of course she wouldn't want to send an email saying "hey I think you think I'm stupid, so I don't want to have lunch again" (she probably didn't even want to admit this to herself), so she grabbed on to the the leaving the table issue to express her hurt. There is just a lot more to this than the issue of whether leaving the table was polite or not.
You probably sent the same tells during the dinner -- "I hate this conversation and want to get out of here" and confirmed it by leaving as fast as possible.
He was at this lunch, during the day, for a whole hour and half the poor waitress probably wondered when they were going to leave but the host was so disrespectful she sat on her tuff holding up the table for other customers. In every way, it's been about her. She sounds like a slob
If someone wishes to be walked out, they need to leave earlier. No one has all day to wait for the other stranger and whenever they feel like walking out of a restaurant. It's not about them just because they have mobility issues. They don't become queen of the table deciding when everyone leaves. How rude
The organizer has no class or half way decent manners, as we've seen.
I can't believe I just read through this entire thread and I'm still up at this late hour, almost 4 am where I live. This situation is very intriguing to me. On the one hand I don't think the OP did anything wrong. But if you asked my mother, she would probably say the polite thing would have been to wait and walk out together. I can't ask her though as she is no longer here. However, I do think that certain manners and customs vary with the area of the country you are brought up in. I am from the South where good manners are expected as part of one's social standing. My mother was quick to point out my lack of "good breeding" whenever I did not meet her expectations.
So I feel for the OP because the subsequent email from the meetup host would have left me blindsided. I would have had to question myself if I had done anything wrong. And to be honest, I really don't know. However, whether the OP and her husband have the manners expected by their dining party or not, the email accusation was uncalled for. It was not such an egregious act that they should be reprimanded. It's like speaking of rudeness, look who's talking.
The other thing I want to comment on is meetup groups. When I moved here a couple of years ago, I joined several of them. I have had so much fun doing things with these groups and now have a core group of other lady friends. I knew no one when I came here. There have been a couple of groups that I wasn't so crazy about and not everyone I've met has been my cup of tea. But I think these groups are great for getting to know people, getting out and having fun and if you're lucky, you'll actually make a few good friends. That has been my experience and I'm in my 60s. We don't just go to bars and restaurants. We go to all kinds of places and public attractions. There are groups for people who love hiking, biking, photography, art, cultural events, comedy, music, all kinds of dancing and classes such as Zumba or yoga. There are groups for pizza lovers, cooks, desserts and happy hours. And I do not believe that they are just for social misfits. That is crazy! Sure there may be one or two that don't possess the greatest social skills but they are the minority. I've found most people are very nice. One of my groups has potlucks and games nights. It's good clean fun! Don't knock it!
Well you're also in Las Vegas which is a very transient place. People come and go all the time.
It depends on what you want in life.
I will say this, if you needed someone to drive you or pick you up at the hospital because you had outpatient surgery or God forbid needed help because you became homebound for awhile would any of these women help you out? Or are you on your own?
I would rather have 2 or 3 good friends(and you're lucky in life if you have that many) than tons of acquaintances you meet casually for events, but don't know you if you need any help.
You might want to think about that. Especially being in your 60s.
Nothing wrong with what you're doing, but learn the difference between friends and acquaintances.
Are any of those Meetup people going to come to your aide if you need help?
Thanks again for all the responses. I'm cursed/blessed with seeing lots of shades of gray, so when someone agrees with me, I think, "YES! I'm been vindicated. " But then a second later: "maybe the others were right and I was rude, even though that wasn't my intention." Then I rude the people who were positive I was as rude as rude can be, and I think, "Well, maybe you are right. But then again, I gave them 90 minutes where I was totally engaged and trying to learn all about them and carry on a decent conversation."
My takeaway is that if I had known it would be perceived as rude, of course I would have walked with them to the door/parking lot. I could have expended the extra few minutes; I've spent more than that on CD posting about this. But I honestly didn't think it would matter---as a matter of fact, I thought she would prefer to walk out on our own without my distracting her by talking to her/watching her since she already expressed so much sensitivity about using a cane before we even met. That was kind of a red flag for me right there, because I did think that a 65+ yo woman would be comfortable with herself and not assume that other people would belittle her because of it, especially when the object was platonic friendship, romance.
I understand what some of you are saying that I could have given off vibes that I found them dull and uninteresting. I am 100% positive I did not. I'm that good an actress when it comes to something like this. It may have drained me a lot, but I was able to stay with it for the 90 minutes. If they had picked up on it, why wouldn't they have initiated leaving? (I was recently about to do that when a friend kept playing on her phone since it was obvious I wasn't as interesting as whatever she was doing on it.) She would have mentioned it in her e-mail. It was totally the not escorting them out. Possibly she didn't like being corrected about not actually being a vegetarian, even though I did it matter-of-factly. Truly, there are some people not bright/aware enough to pick up on someone not finding them bright (ever watch a talent show on TV when a contestant is clueless that they can't sing or dance?).
If 10 people could watch a video of the lunch, I believe that 3, as based by how it was running on this thread, would have deducted points for my not walking with them to the door/parking lot. There was nothing wrong with my actual goodbye (I said, "Well, this has been nice. It was good getting to know you a little more.")---just, according to some of you that it was at the table. I believe that for my efforts on trying to find out stuff about them, establish rapport, and volunteer stuff about myself since they weren't asking much (not being good conversationalists and lacking intellectual curiosity) I would have received a score in the 90's----that's why I was so blindsided by the e-mail.
Seain and Jadedlady, again my shades of gray. I agree with both of you.
Seain, you are correct in that the way Meetup is structured, all you will be getting is acquaintances and activity partners who just hang out with you when you both happen to sign up for an event---and you may well not see them ever again. Should you get sick, you don't even have each other's phone numbers or direct e-mails.
Someone locally tried to start a Meetup group called "The New Community" that was supposed to fight this. She envisioned a small, close knit group that would make its own community. It would be more about each other, with the activities being less important. Like most MU groups, it did well the first time because of the curiosity factor (that and she was holding it in her home and offering free Margaritas!). She then posted the next event. No one signed up for it. She got discouraged and immediately stopped the group. I understand where she was coming from----but she shouldn't have expected this wondrous new community to develop virtually overnight!
And as JadedLady said, she made A FEW GOOD FRIENDS. That is key. You won't suddenly have 300 BFF's. I myself use Meetup to find new friends and see them outside of MUs since a lot of MU activities aren't my thing. As an introvert, I much prefer the one-on-one. Virtually all my friends have been carefully picked (okay, the couple in the OP not so carefully---was just trying it out---to see if there was any possibility of clicking) from MUs and I now have folks to get together with coffee, walks, and dinners. That isn't precisely why MU was founded, but it works for those of us who prefer deeper friendships and are willing to put in the effort to form, develop, and maintain them.
I can't believe I just read through this entire thread and I'm still up at this late hour, almost 4 am where I live. This situation is very intriguing to me. On the one hand I don't think the OP did anything wrong. But if you asked my mother, she would probably say the polite thing would have been to wait and walk out together. I can't ask her though as she is no longer here. However, I do think that certain manners and customs vary with the area of the country you are brought up in. I am from the South where good manners are expected as part of one's social standing. My mother was quick to point out my lack of "good breeding" whenever I did not meet her expectations.
So I feel for the OP because the subsequent email from the meetup host would have left me blindsided. I would have had to question myself if I had done anything wrong. And to be honest, I really don't know. However, whether the OP and her husband have the manners expected by their dining party or not, the email accusation was uncalled for. It was not such an egregious act that they should be reprimanded. It's like speaking of rudeness, look who's talking.
The other thing I want to comment on is meetup groups. When I moved here a couple of years ago, I joined several of them. I have had so much fun doing things with these groups and now have a core group of other lady friends. I knew no one when I came here. There have been a couple of groups that I wasn't so crazy about and not everyone I've met has been my cup of tea. But I think these groups are great for getting to know people, getting out and having fun and if you're lucky, you'll actually make a few good friends. That has been my experience and I'm in my 60s. We don't just go to bars and restaurants. We go to all kinds of places and public attractions. There are groups for people who love hiking, biking, photography, art, cultural events, comedy, music, all kinds of dancing and classes such as Zumba or yoga. There are groups for pizza lovers, cooks, desserts and happy hours. And I do not believe that they are just for social misfits. That is crazy! Sure there may be one or two that don't possess the greatest social skills but they are the minority. I've found most people are very nice. One of my groups has potlucks and games nights. It's good clean fun! Don't knock it!
I agree about Meetup. I think it's great and just because the OP met some very sensitive folks doesn't mean anything is wrong with Meetup. I've met many nice people and also have formed friendships with several people and we go to places outside of the groups. It is nice to plan on attending events and know people are going to show up and even if a couple people cancel out, the event still goes on.
Well you're also in Las Vegas which is a very transient place. People come and go all the time.
It depends on what you want in life.
I will say this, if you needed someone to drive you or pick you up at the hospital because you had outpatient surgery or God forbid needed help because you became homebound for awhile would any of these women help you out? Or are you on your own?
I would rather have 2 or 3 good friends(and you're lucky in life if you have that many) than tons of acquaintances you meet casually for events, but don't know you if you need any help.
You might want to think about that. Especially being in your 60s.
Nothing wrong with what you're doing, but learn the difference between friends and acquaintances.
Are any of those Meetup people going to come to your aide if you need help?
I've met virtually all of my good friends through meetup. I didn't know anyone when I moved out here. Of course not every person that you meet is going to become a new "real friend" but it is completely possible to make real friends through meetup if you put in the time and effort and find the right group. Some groups are meant for just casual get togethers and some are more suited for building real friendships. The ones that meet once a month or so are obviously just going to be for more casual get togethers. I only go to one meetup group now and a lot of our activities are things outside of meetup that we just decide to do together. Our group meets several times per week so you get a chance to see the same people all of the time and really get to know each other. We also have a facebook group so people can post ideas for informal or last minute hang outs. I've known most of the women in the group for about a year. Without a doubt, I can count on many of these women if I need help with something. We have done things like pick someone up from the hospital, take care of pets, help someone move, etc. One of our girls was in an abusive relationship and needed to move out of her apartment asap. Within 2 hours she had somewhere to stay, someone going to the police with her, and numerous women helping to move her stuff out and/or offering to store some of it while she looked for a new place. We had another girl fall at a MU and break her ankle. The organizer went to the hospital with her and stayed overnight. She wasn't able to drive for about 6 weeks after that and we made sure she always got a ride with someone and helped her get to the store, doctor's appointments, etc. When my car wouldn't start after returning to the airport once, I had someone to come get me within 20 minutes, even though it was after midnight.
Anyway, sorry for the hijack, I guess I should answer the OP while I'm here. No, I don't think what you did is rude at all. However, I'm only in my 20's, so that may make a difference. I'm 100% positive no one in my age group would bat an eye at someone not walking them out of a restaurant (unless it was a date, which obviously this was not).
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the poor waitress probably wondered when they were going to leave but the host was so disrespectful she sat on her tuff holding up the table for other customers. In every way, it's been about her. She sounds like a slob
