staying out of it: mom and sister issues... (wife, father, husband)

[flyingsaucermom]

I don't like my birth family and I try to mind my own business and let them do as they please. It's been okay for years... I only talk to mom every couple weeks by phone (just to converse about the weather and her visits with friends....), maybe see her 2x a year and I talk to my sister on the phone about 3x a year... primarily to talk about mom and our (warranted) fears regarding her future.

I can give you the nasty history in a nutshell.. mom and dad were multi-millionaires many times over before dad left for a younger woman. Mom stayed financially dependent on him and continued her nice lifestyle despite my voiced concerns that dad would f- her over in the end and that she ought to live within her means and maybe consider a part-time job. That was all 13 year ago and nothing has changed except mom is in her 60's and I'm being told that dad (we're estranged) has 4 years of back taxes on one of his main businesses and both my sister and my mom say he's "into funny business" which, I have no clue what they mean by it... but both are worried that the money isn't really there anymore..

So here is the thing... for the last several years mom has been dropping subtle hints that she wants to move. When she was here last she was asking if there are any "affordable" areas of Seattle and how she could live in my climate. She's talked a lot about income and property taxes being too high in her state of Minnesota. She's been talking a lot about not knowing what to do about retirement and how scary it could be.. that all her friends and her sit around and wonder who is going to take care of them. Of course in the same day she's talking about how delighted she is with her NEW iphone 6, her NEW macbook air, her NEW fitbit... but that she may not upgrade her tablet She's dropped other, less than subtle, hints that *I* will have to pick up the costs or care for her myself if she goes broke.

The thing is... I've been LIVID about her for 13 years and counting. I do NOT condone her lifestyle. I don't live anywhere close as fancy as her and my husband and I are doing all right, but our big dream is simply to send the kids to college and have adequate funds for retirement, not take annual 3 week international tours and travel domestically every month or so. It's NOT having the latest gadget and dining out 3x a week...

The other half is that there were big moments of my life where she could have been there for me and wasn't.. like the time I had my first child, or my second.. or when we got some scary diagnosis (autism) about one of the kids or when I struggled with mild anxiety and depression... for her it was always just "so how's the weather.. Good? okay, well, that's nice... I'm off to Florida now... bye!".

My sister and I have our differences and I'm a little weary of her but I'm more or less okay with her... anyway... she is 100% in agreement about mom... so it's not just me who feels this way.

For the last many years I've been trying to avoid really engaging with mom about her future (she's an adult.. it's her money.. her life... ) but the question in the back of our minds (mine and my sister) is what if she doesn't have enough? We've tried to figure it out and I've asked her point blank in the past year, but she says "it's enough" in very undefined terms or she's said that she won't be okay if my dad goes broke.

So I think "whatever..." again, it's her life, her money... her problem...

Except this week she announced she's moving to Arizona! She's going to sell her townhome in the Twin Cities and move to a place without income or property taxes. She needs to move to a cheaper area of the country in order to maintain her lifestyle.

My sister is upset and says it's "selfish" and that if anything happens to her she'll literally be all alone.. that she needs to stay in cheaper areas in Twin Cities. My mom says she doesn't want to live in those areas ("oh, have you been there lately? I can't live there!"). And then my sister said, "well, she turned it around on me when she said, 'well, it's not like you or your sister are likely to clean me up 3x a day when the time comes anyway, so what difference does it make if I'm in Arizona' " and I said to my sister, "well you know, she's right on that one... at least for me... she's correct".

And that's where I get all weird with my sister... because she starts twisting things: she complains and complains about my mom, but then gets insulted when she says stuff like that, but I'm like, "you can't have it both ways". You can't insult the woman to kingdom come and then expect her to appreciate you!

So it's all kinda a mess and I really don't want any part of it.

Here is how I feel about it all: I don't think my mom is prepared and I think whatever money she might have will be long gone if she lives as long as her mother did (age 90). I think my dad really is on the verge of financial collapse and he's going to take my mom, his wife and their children down with him. I also don't think it's my responsibility to clean up after any of them and have my mother become financially dependent on me... EVER. I live in a cost prohibitive area of the country so it's not even a viable option that she'd move out here without our support (which we're in the accumulation stage of our lives as we have our kids and retirement to pay for). I don't care if she moves to Arizona or stays in Minnesota... it doesn't matter one way or another... it might very well to my sister, but that's really between the two of them to figure out. My sister isn't completely in the free and clear with mom.... she's done her part to keep mom at a distance and I can understand how my mom would just decide she'd be just as well on her own in a different state. I totally get that with my sister. My mom might be irresponible, selfish and self-entitled, but my sister is really chilly (probably because that's her defense mechanism).

Me? I don't know what I come off as.. I think I can be really direct and definitive once I've gathered enough evidence to substantiate my opinion. For example, I'm glad my mom doesn't think I'll be there to clean her up (or pay for someone else) because it's the truth (however hard it is). I really do need her to have the appropriate expectations of me so she can plan well for herself. False expectations would hurt even more. This can change of course as the years pass, but at this point all I can see myself doing is sending her a check for a couple hundred dollars each month and helping her get whatever goverment services she's entitled to.

I hate this stuff.

[photobuff42]

Until your mom comes to grips with her own reality, you can't do anything to change her attitude or comments. Just continue what you are doing except to tell mom that your responsibility lies with your husband and kids. Be sure to tell her that your own responsibilities prevent you from helping her.

[fluffythewondercat]

I don't think you're ready to cut them both off yet but I'd urge you to consider it.

Theatrical people like your mom and sis spread a nasty virus that you don't want in your home. I don't speak to either my mother or my sister because they're always trying to suck me into their latest production of "Look What This Person Did to Me." I don't do drama.

If you've ever found yourself repeatedly complaining to your husband about mom or sis, cut them off. You're infected. They're adults, they can handle their own lives without you.

[convextech]

Originally Posted by flyingsaucermom

This can change of course as the years pass, but at this point all I can see myself doing is sending her a check for a couple hundred dollars each month and helping her get whatever goverment services she's entitled to.

I hate this stuff.

If you don't want to have to take care of her, don't ever send her any money -- not ever.


She is an adult, and she should be expected to take care of her own finances. It's not your fault she has made bad decisions about her future. Just make sure she knows how you feel so she doesn't come a-beggin'.

[Just A Guy]

Your mom is an adult. It's her responsibility to take care of herself and plan for her own future. It's not your responsibility to bail her out or take care of her.

[flyingsaucermom]

Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat

If you've ever found yourself repeatedly complaining to your husband about mom or sis, cut them off. You're infected. They're adults, they can handle their own lives without you.

YES! For YEARS!

And every single stinking time there is a "flair up" (which is appropriate with your virus metaphor!) like right now I end up becoming less mindful and productive in my own life and my precious family!

It's like with my sister. I know she's somewhat mindful of it because she even texted before we talked, "I try not to break boundaries I set" but then when we do actually get on the phone she unleashes a torrent of information that I really don't need or want...

I asked her specifically just to give me the information she knew about my dad's finances, but she took the liberty to talk about unbelievable things that were very disturbing.

I cut off my extended family about 18 months ago and it's proven to be a great decision for me... my sister still keeps in contact with everyone (and everything) and when she told me the latest and greatest in family drama ("so, tell me!... who is sexually being abused now?!?" ... yep, for reals... that level of nastiness) it reconfirmed once again why I don't even like talking to her.

I appreciate your advice. I decided to take my issue here instead of to my husband... he's soooo sick of hearing it.

It's very hard to think I'll end up with no family.

[flyingsaucermom]

Originally Posted by convextech

If you don't want to have to take care of her, don't ever send her any money -- not ever.


She is an adult, and she should be expected to take care of her own finances. It's not your fault she has made bad decisions about her future. Just make sure she knows how you feel so she doesn't come a-beggin'.

In our first decade of marriage she gifted us (holidays, birthdays, etc..) probably about $5,000 total. I feel like it's appropriate for me to give that amount back.

[rrah]

Since your telephone conversations with your mother revolve around non-important issues, take the time to write a lengthy letter or email to her. In that correspondence detail for her your own family financial responsibilities including college, retirement, etc. Offer to help her find a financial consultant to plan for her future, or offer to help her to the best of your abilities (whatever you are comfortable doing here.).

Detail your position on all of this. Under NO circumstances indicate that you will give her a couple hundred dollars a month. People like your mother will use that and keep coming back for more. If at some point you want to send her money, great, but do NOT set up that expectation.

BTW--since your mother never remarried she will be able to receive Social Security as if she was still married to your father--provided they were married more than 10 years (I think it's still 10 years). I would assume that amount is more than she would get never having worked.

Either way you win--if your mother cuts you off, the drama ends. If she accepts your offer--you win.

[crazyme4878]

Originally Posted by flyingsaucermom

Except this week she announced she's moving to Arizona! She's going to sell her townhome in the Twin Cities and move to a place without income or property taxes. She needs to move to a cheaper area of the country in order to maintain her lifestyle.

You're right, it's not your problem, but I can't help commenting: she knows that Arizona has both income and property tax, right? Along with a really high sales tax. And it's not like the property tax is all that much lower than Minnesota's.

I would start scaling back the phone calls. Did you say you call every couple weeks? Move it to once every three weeks, then to once a month, etc. It doesn't sound like you p receive much from your relationship with her; I normally don't think a person is required to "get" something from a relationship for that relationship to be valuable. However, this sounds like it's going to end up in a big ol' pile of manure, and your mom is going to pull everyone in. Totally cutting her off, as suggested, is definitely a legitimate option, but sometimes a person isn't ready for that. Slowly reducing your contact to (eventually) six or so times a year will help eliminate the toxicity, while allowing you to feel like you a keeping up something of a "daughterly duty."

When you do talk with her, don't bring up her future--you aren't going to change her. If she brings it up, commiserate by focusing on yourself and then immediately ending the conversation: "Yeah, it's tough, Jim and I don't know how we'll pay for little Johnny's college, it's hard to budget for all our day to day needs and save for the future. Talking about Johnny, I have to go run him to practice." Then end the conversation. She gets to feel heard, but isn't allowed to go on about it, and is reminded that you aren't a viable option for money. It might act as reinforcement for your own psyche, too, by ending phone calls by saying out loud what you are doing is right.

And may I add that if she suddenly wants to come visit you, make sure you don't have room in your house for her to stay?

[Mikala43]

First, Arizona has property and income tax, but they are both low.

Second, at least she is making a move to somewhere less expensive. (I'm guessing, I don't know that)

If she was married to your Dad for more than 7 (10?) years, she can claim on his Social Security.