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You guys just don't get it. The kid probably dislikes green beans too, that doesn't mean she should go to therapy to talk about it. I'm a grown up, animal rights proponent and have done many rescues of a variety of animals. I don't dislike dogs, I dislike the owners who as a group, are very irresponsible. I go out of my way to avoid them. There is a time and place, and urban areas are not that time or place. You guys refuse to step out of ME-ME-ME and realize lots of people don't like your dogs. The kid is going to grow up just fine. And, still, not like dogs, just like a huge percentage of our population. You think it is your "right" to assault peoples sensibilities with your lack of. No, there are no legal repercussions, no one is going to confront you, but rest assured, every time you go out in a populated area with your dog there are lots and lots of people wishing you weren't there. But, since you are a dog owner, it is your divine right and all those people should get therapy, we get it
I'm afraid you're the one who doesn't get it. This isn't just a matter of pet ownership. Not all dogs are owned. What is she going to do when the next dog that approaches her is a stray? Then there's no one for you to blame. It's her and a stray dog. No owner at fault. So her safety is dependent on HER REACTION to that dog.
I never said anything about therapy. But yes, her parents need to help her to address her debilitating fear. That is no way to go through the life.
And the fact that you compare being deathly afraid of dogs to disliking green beans just underscores how much you don't get it.
A lot of people here are not understanding the difference between a responsible dog owner and one who's not. A responsible dog owner does not let their dog run loose to poop on neighbors' lawns, or allow their dog to jump uninvited on people, or allow their dog to run up to other people they don't know. Responsible owners take some time to train their dogs, only let them run loose where they're permitted to run loose, will pick up after their dogs if needed, and will keep their dogs clean, flea free, licensed if necessary, and vaccinated.
Having said that, yes, there are a lot of irresponsible dog owners around and it pays to know how to deal with them and their dogs, too.
A lot of other people here seem to think some dogs will just "bite" for whatever reason just because they're animals. Well, no. A well bred dog with a stable temperament raised and trained correctly will not bite without a reason. That reason may be because they don't like a child poking a finger in his eye, or being caught in a trap and being in pain, but there is always a reason. And yes, a lot of us have to depend on the dog never biting under normal circumstances and even under extraordinary ones.
Service dogs, the kind that are trained by Canine Companions for Independence, guide dogs, search and rescue dogs, tracking dogs, police and military dogs - these dogs work under very stressful conditions sometimes. One of the ways to get them used to being out in the world and all the noise and commotion is to take them out in it. My own dog went into banks, nursing homes, fair demonstrations, and even to Squaw Valley for training sessions. Puppy raisers for guide dogs are required to bring those dogs everywhere - one of the rules of raising a guide dog puppy is the puppy can't go longer than 8 hours without human contact. So those dogs go to work with their puppy raisers and everywhere else.
The reason for this is to build a bond between the owner and the dog and once you've built that bond, you have something more than just a dog. You have a partnership with an animal that is totally on another level than if you just own a dog, keep him in the back yard, and throw him food once in a while. If your dog is out doing search work, you better be able to read and understand what he is telling you as he searches. When you do search work, the dog is the one in charge and you are following his lead, not the other way around.
I would never force my dog on someone who is afraid of dogs or scared of them, but I'm not going to leave him home all day either because he's "just a dog", even if I never do SAR work again. I've been spoiled by having a partner and companion and just having a dog to hear something bark once in a while is not enough. So if you're asking why some people bring their dog with them all the time, that's why.
Last edited by rodentraiser; 03-08-2016 at 08:36 PM..
Dogs in stores: If the dog is on leash, it's really your daughter who is the problem, IMO, since the dog is under control. It would be no different than someone having a toddler in the store or a turtle or a cat. Any fear of those things that are under someone's control and not acting in a threatening manner, is unreasonable. It is your daughter's issue that you need to work on. She will encounter many dogs in her lifetime. You won't be successful teaching her to go through life asking other people to put away everything that scares your daughter.
It might help her get over her irrational fear.
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait...OP's daughter "is" the problem??? I'm pretty sure you mean *has* the problem. If that is what you intended to say, I agree with you.
One of my four children had an irrational fear of dogs seemingly from birth (which is what all *phobias* are--irrational fear. If they were rational they wouldn't be phobias.) We know there was no trauma or clear cause for her fear because she was a tiny baby who had been away from us when we noticed she would become hysterical every time she saw a dog. Hysterical. Inconsolable. Could not be reasoned with. Tried to climb on my head--as far as she could possibly get from the dog. Her older siblings love dogs, so this wasn't a family culture thing either.
Here's what we did: not much. We acted very calm and matter-of-fact, but didn't tell she was silly or wrong. We didn't take her to therapy for goodness sake! She was a baby/toddler/preschooler! We certainly didn't go to dog parks. But we did frequent a few houses with dogs. Some calm, some hyper. DD was usually in our arms, but we just didn't make a big deal out of it. She would see us and her siblings appropriately, even if minimally, engage with the dogs: ask permission, smell our hands, kind tone of voice, pat on the head, positive words. And that was that. We'd position ourselves between her and a dog if she felt very nervous, but still we would be very discreet about it. Lots of distraction.
Several years later, she's in elementary school and no longer terrified of dogs. She doesn't LOVE them. I can't think of a time she's ever expressed interest in petting an unknown dog. She doesn't go out of her way to pet familiar dogs. But we can go anywhere in public and she won't freak out. She can admire dogs from a safe distance and laugh at their antics. She can spend time with her grandparents' dogs and tell stories about them with sympathy and humor.
No need to be extreme people--just because a preschooler is afraid of dogs she's not destined to a life of people kowtowing to her, or never having a job and living at home at 26 (as one poster wrote )
WOW! You need help. Anyone that has so many issues with dogs needs to seek therapy.
Everyone that suggested the OP get the child some help, it is because the child cannot spend her life in fear, it is more for her benefit than the dog. I'm scared of birds, I find them beautiful and I've learned to deal with my fear, do I expect birds not to fly because I'm scared of them? No, I found ways to help myself deal with it, for my benefit, not the birds. They don't care.
Did you go to a therapist to deal with your fear of birds??
The above is true, but a young child being afraid of dogs is one thing. Being "deathly afraid" of them and having to be picked up when they're simply seen at a distance of 100 feet is something else again.
That is an extreme fear, and it would be to the child's advantage if it could be overcome as soon as possible.
This entire thread is odd - even the title. Why does it have to be a either/or -- either the dog or the kid? Neither are going anywhere any time soon.
I also don't agree with the mom's 'It's her problem' stance. I mean...really? You aren't going to help her? Isn't that your job?
In a nutshell, yes to all of this. I love kids, and I love dogs. There's a reason why they are so often used together in advertising. Kids and dogs are good for each other.
But threads about the issue never end well, because there are always the exceptions, and the rare scenarios that get posted.
I would feel badly if my dogs jumped on a child. Fortunately, they aren't jumpers, we've done the training.
But this little girl has an irrational fear, and it will make her life more difficult if her parents can't help her overcome it.
In a nutshell, yes to all of this. I love kids, and I love dogs. There's a reason why they are so often used together in advertising. Kids and dogs are good for each other.
But threads about the issue never end well, because there are always the exceptions, and the rare scenarios that get posted.
I would feel badly if my dogs jumped on a child. Fortunately, they aren't jumpers, we've done the training.
But this little girl has an irrational fear, and it will make her life more difficult if her parents can't help her overcome it.
Why is her fear "irrational"? How is her fear of dogs (which can be intimidating animals) any different than being scared of water? Spiders? Snakes? People have "deathly fears" for a variety of reasons. That doesn't make them weird, "needing help", or whatever. I still am scared of snakes and NO, I have no intention of having someone wrap a ball python around my neck to help me to get over it because I may meet a snake one day. I am still scared of the water and will never set foot in water over my head (I am close to 6 feet). My mother didn't have a pool or anything to help me overcome whatever fear I had. And even if she did, I probably would never like being in deep water. My daughter, who is being taught how to swim, doesn't like deep water and I'm not gonna force her. My best friend is scared of clowns, spiders, and other things. They're phobias. Many of us have them, well into adulthood. There's nothing peculiar about the way the OP's daughter acted at all.
And for all we know, she may one day overcome her fear. Like I said before, I overcame my fear of dogs in my late 20s, courtesy of a kind, gentle dog. After that, I went on to own a dog. Now I don't think I fear dogs. But I will get uneasy when I am approached by a loose, loudly barking dog. Some things won't change. A dog, when you're a small child, can be VERY intimidating, especially if it is a large breed. A barking, agitated dog is even worse. Why don't we see things from the child's point of view? I'm sure it will be beneficial for her to not be scared of dogs, but this girl joins a long list of people who are scared of animals like dogs. Kids and dogs may or may not be good for each other. It's not always peanut butter and jelly. And even if kids are comfortable with their dog, they may be scared of someone else's dog.
And no, being scared of dogs will not make her life any more difficult than it need be. I survived until my 20s with no ill effects and I'm sure I could continue if I didn't decide to overcome the fear on my own. She doesn't have to own a dog. She can choose to avoid contact with dogs (which can be done). Point still stands that if your dog is in public, it should be leashed. It should listen to your commands. If it is barking loudly (which can easily scare anyone), it should be escorted down another aisle.
And FYI, people were kind enough to put the dog up when I visited when I was younger. It was no big deal for them.
Her fear is irrational because it is out of whack with the actual risk. Approximately 1.5 % of the population are bitten by dogs in a given year, and out of those, 80% do not require medical attention.
Nobody has said that dogs shouldn't be leashed in public. Nobody. But this child is afraid of dogs whether or not they are leashed. And given the 84 million dogs currently in the US, if somebody has to go out of their way to avoid being in the presence of one, they're going to miss out on something, just as those who are afraid to fly miss out on some wonderful destinations. Maybe it's worth it to them. I think it's more beneficial to overcome irrational fears.
I would not put up my dogs in my house. If somebody has an issue with that, then they would be told beforehand it is not optional.
Her fear is irrational because it is out of whack with the actual risk. Approximately 1.5 % of the population are bitten by dogs in a given year, and out of those, 80% do not require medical attention.
Nobody has said that dogs shouldn't be leashed in public. Nobody. But this child is afraid of dogs whether or not they are leashed. And given the 84 million dogs currently in the US, if somebody has to go out of their way to avoid being in the presence of one, they're going to miss out on something, just as those who are afraid to fly miss out on some wonderful destinations. Maybe it's worth it to them. I think it's more beneficial to overcome irrational fears.
I would not put up my dogs in my house. If somebody has an issue with that, then they would be told beforehand it is not optional.
I don't think that it's irrational at all. People have phobias. Some more than others. To a child who is scared of a dog, it doesn't matter about percentages. I sure as heck didn't care. No different than being scared of any of the other things that I mentioned. Sorry, I'm not "missing out" by being scared of snakes. And when I mentioned dogs being leashed, I'm speaking generally, though I didn't parse through every post to see if someone is against a dog being leashed. The dog that ran up to her obviously wasn't leashed, hence my post/point.
And when I was scared of dogs years ago, I guess I wouldn't visit your house. But that's a moot point because I'm not any longer. This girl's fear may be overcome and it may not. If it's not, then it's not.
And another thing (not directed at your post), some people are more fearful/cautious than others. My eldest daughter is definitely more prone to fear than her sister. Her sister is not afraid of water, dogs, whatever. While I do encourage my more fearful daughter to overcome her fears (i.e. water), I'm always mindful that that is part of her personality. I'm not going to force the issues and neither am I going to make her feel like something is wrong with her because she has a fear of [insert here].
I did all that as a child. Except the shedding hair part. Thats just gross
I was pretty gross as a child too. I couldn't believe it. I used to dig up bugs like worms *shudders*. I did something even more gross that I won't care to mention but I was going through a terrible childhood so that probly helps.
Shedding hair? I didn't realize this but apparently hair goes EVERYWHERE. If you have long enough hair, it will go in your sink when you didn't even wash it in there, on the floor...just all over the place.
The human body is just nasty in general to the point I don't even like to think about it. You know they say a dog's mouth is cleaner than a human's? Don't know how true that is when they lick down there and run around getting dirt in their fur but I get envious of my dog's teeth. My one dog has straight white teeth...a lot better looking than mine and I don't do anything with him but I try to take care of my own yet my teeth could never compare to that. I know it's the food you feed them though probly.
Also, there are more human assaults than dog bites.
Not to mention humans have more tools. A dog can only hurt you with their mouth. A person on the other hand could have a gun, knife, kick, punch etc. Dogs are very direct too. They tend to tell you when they're fed up..maybe they put their ears back or they let out a growl. I'm pretty confident that's why people get bit by dogs most of the time because they do not PAY ATTENTION. Use common sense if the dog does not seem happy about what you did then don't do it (unless of course you have to...like my dog hates it when I wipe his butt but have to do it when there's something there so in that case take precaution and talk to them gently)
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I'm pretty sure you mean *has* the problem. If that is what you intended to say, I agree with you. 
