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I'm not judging you nor saying you are the only source of the current problems with your daughter. In any dysfunctional relationship, there are always at least two players (and often more).
But YOU are the only person in this situation that you have full control over. When we keep trying the same things, and getting the same results, it is time to carefully consider how we could change our perspective and approach. Since we can't control or change someone else's behavior or reactions, all we can do is change our own behavior and reactions when we are in a tough situation like this.
So, if you're still open to hearing advice (hopefully you posted because you wanted advice, and not just pity), here's what I would suggest.
First, Re-read all of your posts in this thread as if a stranger wrote them. Read them carefully and with an open mind. What do you notice? What words and phrases are you using repeatedly? What emotions come through in what you have written?
What I (and others) have noticed is that in every post, you seem to be assigning blame to other people for the lack of contact with your daughter, and express a lot of anger towards the people involved (including your daughter). It is likely that some of the blame and anger is justified. All of us would probably react the same way, on at least some level, to what you are describing as having happened to you. So, please note that I am not blaming you for your reaction or suggesting that it is not a normal reaction, just pointing it out to you.
But, here's the rub: in order to move forward, you will need to put all of the understandable negative emotions you feel aside or at least get to a point where they aren't such a central part of your reaction to the situation with your daughter that every time you speak or write about what has happened you feel the urge to rehash all of the past hurts.
Again, you can't control other people's reactions or behaviors. You can only control your own. But it seems to me that you still have a bit of work to do before you can get to the point where you can say, "my daughter and I don't have contact. I don't understand and maybe never will, and it makes me sad. She's had a hard life, between the divorce and feeling so depressed she tried to commit suicide. But I love my daughter and wish her the best in life and want her to be happy and safe, so if space from me is what she needs, so be it, as hard and sad as that is for me."
See the difference? No "I DESERVE an explanation" no "She never thanked me for taking care of her kids when she tried to commit suicide!" No "my ex/sister/daughter's husband screwed up my life!" Instead, just acknowledging and accepting your own reactions and behaviors, the only ones you have control over.
Of course, this is easier said then done. I know this from personal experience as I had a difficult relationship with my son for a time. It wasn't until a dear friend told me something very similar to what I am suggesting to you -- stop thinking about the relationship as something that was only happening to ME and let go of the anger/fear I felt about it -- that I was able to start building a better relationship with my son. It took a lot of work to change my own behaviors and reactions to the situation with my son, but that was all I could fix (and I am still very much a work in progress at nearly 60, so I don't mean to make it sound like I am perfect or have all of the answers).
It doesn't always work out with our children, of course. Perhaps you will re-establish contact with her, but you may not be able to. Either way, moving forward means letting go.
So, let's try this again: what can you do to change or deal with the fear/anger/sadness you feel about your daughter? What about your reaction to the situation can YOU (not your daughter or your sister or your ex or your daughter's husband) change or do differently? Who can help you with the hard work of making those changes or coming to a point of acceptance about the situation so that you can at least move forward in your life?
Best wishes on the tough work ahead. I know it is a difficult situation for any mother, and I wish you all the best.
Once a person becomes an adult, they can choose to sever their relationship with their parents if they want to. Sometimes it's the parent's fault and sometimes it's the child's fault. Sometimes they'll get over it with time. Sometimes it can't be mended.
My husband doesn't talk to his mother. He moved out and quit communicating with her when he was 18. We got married and had two kids, all without me ever meeting his mother. Then our oldest child got really curious about her relatives on her father's side and kept begging to meet her other grandmother. So my husband went to talk to her and see if they could have some sort of friendly parent/adult child relationship. We started to see her a couple of times a year, even though my husband wasn't over the abuse he suffered as a child and he couldn't eat when she was there, or manage to say more than a word or two. After several years, he realized that he was just not comfortable having any sort of relationship with his mother at all. He told the kids that they could communicate with her by phone or email (they couldn't go visit her because of the ways that he was abused by her and the possibility that she might do it to them) but that he just couldn't handle having any contact with her. He did get some closure from dealing with her as an adult. He realized that the things that happened to him as a child weren't his fault and that he hadn't caused any of it and that nothing he could have done would have prevented it. But there was no way to just get over it and act like he was friends with his mother.
My point is that things look different from the parent's perspective than they do from the child's. Your child may feel that she has very valid reasons not to communicate with you, and she may be right. You may feel that she's unfair and unreasonable and that it has more to do with her mental health problems than with anything that you've ever done to her, and you may be right. But once someone is an adult, you can't force them to have a relationship with their parents. It's their choice. She has to do what she feels is best for herself and her children, and you have to respect her decision and leave her alone, as long as she has someone (her husband) there looking out for her mental health.
[quote=countrykaren;43927356]I don't rehash any problems with my sister or ex. They can fall in a hole or just go away. I don't care either way. Just want to establish some small relationship with my daughter so I can have contact with my granddaughters. THEY are the ONLY ones I worry about and want to see.
This is sad. You readily admit that the only ones you care about are your grand kids and not your daughter. She's your own flesh and blood, those grand kids are only a quarter of your blood, yet they are more important. Why?
You carried that child for nine months and you only want a "small relationship" with her?
Do you understand how hurtful that is to a child that you are supposed to love unconditionally?
Do you think maybe your daughter sees that side of you and feels as hurt and rejected by it as she may have when you left her life at an age when a child needs her mother?
You may have been a victim of circumstance when you lost custody but from your daughters eyes she may have felt unloved by you and abandoned, and still holds that same opinion. Deserved or not.
Try to walk in her shoes for one minute and put aside what you want. You may gain some insight into how your daughter feels. You two will never be on the same page until you both understand the why behind the what.
You may also find that your daughter is not interested in having you be a grandmother to her kids. It's not about what you want. It's about what your daughter feels is right for her children.
I was raised in dysfunction and my only living relative is my brother. He has reached out to me a couple of times and I still don't want to revisit that part of my life. Is it fair? I don't know. I remember the abusive side of him and I'm of the opinion that a leopard doesn't change it's spots. So no thanks.
Your daughter may be happy and content in her life and may not want to revisit that unpleasant part of her childhood again.
As a mother that loves her child I would hope that you would be happy for her and would want what's best for her.
Sorry if many people seem to think the problem is me. You don't know me and never will- yet you judge me. ( I divorced because my husband was physically and emotionally abusive. Yet my ex is a great friend and very likeable) Yes, my daughter has mental problems. I went down to NC from NY when I heard she attempted suicide to care for her, the kids, and her husband who was in the marines at the time. I bought food, cleaned, cooked, etc. Never a thank you from her. But she is my daughter and still love her. And yes, I do care for only my granddaughters, not that I care MORE for them- I care about them, my daughter and son in law just as much- I do have some contact with my son in law- I just want to maintain a relationship with my granddaughters (ages 9, 7, 6). If my daughter wants to be mad at me for whatever reason, I can't change that, but they should not be denied a relationship with their grandmother. As a kid, I had a very good relationship with my grandparents and saw them daily. I think I should at least to told why she is mad at me, and let me explain myself (if there is an explanation). It way have been a misunderstanding on her part- I don't know. I can't just go and see them or her- I live in NY- they are in Fl. BTW- I would like a relationship with my sister and did have a small one up until last yr. It's only the 2 of us. Both of them stopped talking to me at the same time without explanation
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I agree that your daughter should tell you why she is mad so you can attempt to remedy the issue. But, she doesn't want to for whatever reason. There's really nothing you can do about your lack of contact with the grandkids. She's the gatekeeper and if she chooses to not allow contact she can. Trying to do an end run around her would cause more harm at this point. She's made it clear she currently doesn't want to be in contact with you and doesn't want you in contact with her daughters. All you can do is continue to reach out to her and hope that one day she reaches back.
Mentally healthy children don't just cut off their mothers for no reason. Either the daughter is suffering from some kind of mental illness - in which case you must find a way to reach out to her; through someone else or write her a letter if she's not taking your calls. The second reason is simple: you did something very serious to upset her. You might not think it was serious but to her it apparently is. It is still on you to find out what you did and try to mend it. I don't know, if you can, show up with a casserole and maybe have a chat.
I don't rehash any problems with my sister or ex. They can fall in a hole or just go away. I don't care either way. Just want to establish some small relationship with my daughter so I can have contact with my granddaughters. THEY are the ONLY ones I worry about and want to see.
This is sad. You readily admit that the only ones you care about are your grand kids and not your daughter. She's your own flesh and blood, those grand kids are only a quarter of your blood, yet they are more important. Why?
You carried that child for nine months and you only want a "small relationship" with her?
Do you understand how hurtful that is to a child that you are supposed to love unconditionally?
Do you think maybe your daughter sees that side of you and feels as hurt and rejected by it as she may have when you left her life at an age when a child needs her mother?
You may have been a victim of circumstance when you lost custody but from your daughters eyes she may have felt unloved by you and abandoned, and still holds that same opinion. Deserved or not.
Try to walk in her shoes for one minute and put aside what you want. You may gain some insight into how your daughter feels. You two will never be on the same page until you both understand the why behind the what.
You may also find that your daughter is not interested in having you be a grandmother to her kids. It's not about what you want. It's about what your daughter feels is right for her children.
I was raised in dysfunction and my only living relative is my brother. He has reached out to me a couple of times and I still don't want to revisit that part of my life. Is it fair? I don't know. I remember the abusive side of him and I'm of the opinion that a leopard doesn't change it's spots. So no thanks.
Your daughter may be happy and content in her life and may not want to revisit that unpleasant part of her childhood again.
As a mother that loves her child I would hope that you would be happy for her and would want what's best for her.
as a daughter who has severed any ties with her maternal mother, please understand, there may be so much more here that this woman has experienced but doesn't want to share....
I'm only asking that you not be critical....and be sensitive to her plight....I'm certain she knows her daughter much better than we do....(just saying)
and she shouldn't have to explain the whole story....
I have not spoken to my toxic mother in over a decade now. I should have cut off all contact with her long before I did, but at least I did it. She was very abusive and nothing was ever good enough for her. She is not very well liked and was a terrible mother -- the kind that should never have had any kids. I am convinced she is responsible for my father's heavy drinking, which I believe led to his early death at the young age of 56... that and my horrid brother's behaviors.
That said, I've noticed with great consistency that if our child/teen or adult-child is close to someone who does not like us (even if we didn't give them reason to dislike us) and especially if they are jealous and/or resentful of us (again, they don't need a reason) they have a sneaky, underhanded, but very effective way of gradually turning our child against us, and one that works. Every. Time. Never allow your kids around anyone who doesn't truly care about you, even if they are good to your kids and you are related. They will turn your kids against you and keep your kids for themselves.
That's why I never, ever let either of my kids around my toxic brother or crazy mother and they have no relationship with either of them because I know they will slowly and covertly turn them against me, even though we have a good relationship and a tight emotional bond. There is no contact with either of them and I purposely live a good distance away because I sense that they are home wreckers and I am not taking that chance. Toxic people destroy families.
Once those who dislike or resent us enter the picture the relationship with our kids goes down the toilet quickly, even if we were a good parent and had a good relationship with our child. If a person likes your kids, but doesn't care for you for whatever reason, it's a huge red flag.... a disaster waiting to happen.... even if you were a good parent.
My kids are grown, both in graduate school now, and since I have the experience of raising a child from birth to adulthood, I have decades to look back on, as opposed to when they were younger. And, I have seen it many, many times. I feel for you. Losing a child is heartbreaking. But, you are not alone. There are online support groups for parents who have been abandoned by their adult children that you may want to join. Wishing you the best.
The best way to regain contact with your daughter may be to put aside your issues with your sister and ex husband.
I don't mean regain contact with your sister or your ex, but rather stop blaming your sister for your daughter not being in contact or rehashing what happened with your ex way back when.
That's all ancient history and you want to build a relationship with your daughter and grand-children TODAY.
So just wipe that slate clean in your mind when you try to re-establish contact with your daughter. Make peace with what happened before you contact your daughter again. If you can't let it go, then as Vasily wisely suggests perhaps a few sessions with a family therapist would help you gain some perspective and distance.
If you're going to be tempted to rehash old family history or grudges when you try to contact your daughter, it's sure to backfire.
I wish you all the best, as I am sure it is very hard not to have a relationship with your daughter and grandchildren. Hugs and well wishes!
I have an aunt, whose two grown up children won't talk to her, and haven't done for about 10 years. One of her children has a 2 year old son - she has a grandson she doesn't even know.
She goes around, acting like she doesn't know why her two children won't talk to her, or indeed why most of the family want nothing to do with her - but deep down, she knows. We all do. She knows what she did to them, and how they were treated - but she won't admit to herself. She has never made any effort to apologise for all of the things she has done and said. How are her children suppose to have a relationship with a woman who can't own up to what she did?
People don't sever contact with their parents for no good reason.
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