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Old 06-20-2016, 08:12 AM
 
28,895 posts, read 54,157,635 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boris347 View Post
Unless you volunteer to do so. Then you should follow through.


If you read the post, OP volunteered to do it, hoping there would be fringe benefits. No one forced him, or said his time and talent had no value.


As far as you "Charging" your friends, to help them, that's not something I would be proud of. I help out friends when ever I can, or they need help. They don't have to pay me to be a friend.
I agree with the first part of your post. I disagree with the second part, if it is a time-consuming endeavor. This is also why I avoid doing business with friends and relatives. I'll give advice all day long. But doing the work is something else entirely, chiefly because I only have so many hours in a day.

But that is not the issue here. It's the fact that she agreed to it. Once again, if you volunteer to do something, you do it and you don't flake out. The OP knew what it would take to do the project she committed to when she accepted the commitment. It's not as if the amount of work comes as some huge surprise. She knew the amount of time and energy it would take. But she blurted out, "Sure, I'll do it" anyway. The onus is on her.

I'm amazed at how much people on this thread rationalize blowing off a commitment, which to me speaks to a lack of trustworthiness. Have I agreed to something, then regretted doing so? Yes, absolutely. There have been a few times when I've had to work until the wee hours or the weekend to live up to a commitment. But that was my fault, not the fault of the person doing the asking. I sure as hell didn't say, "Oh, you know what? I'm now too busy to help out on this project." Short of a health crisis or some similar emergency, there aren't too many excuses that won't make you look wholly unreliable.

I don't know. Maybe I'm old fashioned in that regard. But when you say you're going to do something, you simply live up to your word. Not just when it's convenient for you to do so. Because, in the end, your word is all you have in life.

OP, instead of being a flake here, try living up to your responsibilities and treat it as a valuable lesson in life. And learn to say, "No." You'll be a much happier person in life when you master that ability.

Last edited by cpg35223; 06-20-2016 at 08:33 AM..
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Old 06-20-2016, 08:23 AM
 
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Yup. I say suck it up and do it or just explain the situation to her SO she can make other arrangements.
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Old 06-20-2016, 08:34 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zentropa View Post
Oh. OK. Then I think I'll ask my accountant friend to do my taxes "as a favor." I have a blank wall, so maybe my artist friend will paint something there to help me out. I need a new roof, perhaps I will befriend a roof contractor who would be happy to donate his services because he's a good guy and we get along.
I totally understand, but that's not the point. She agreed to do it. Her fault, not the person doing the asking. Had she said, "I would love to help, but my time is somewhat limited this summer," nobody would have thought badly of her. Now she's essentially saying, "Oh, you know that think I promised to help with? I just don't have the time." This tells the other person three things:

1) The OP makes promises she doesn't intend to keep.
2) The OP can't manage her time.
3) Mostly importantly of all, the person's project isn't all that important to her. After all, the OP has a couple of months to do this, so the protests that she doesn't have enough time is kind of a fig leaf. She could find the time if she really wanted. We're talking party invitations for Pete's sake.

As a writer, there have been times when you've been asked to work on things that might not necessarily add to your income statement. Maybe it was a pro-bono. Maybe it was a friend needing help on something. And, having been asked, did you suddenly blow it off a few weeks down the road? Probably not.

I had one business contact to whom I had steered a LOT of business. We're talking the guy had originally come to me hat-in-hand asking for work because he had lost his job and was in a bad way. I liked his work so I referred him to a number of people, for which I received his profuse thanks. We're talking tens of thousands in billings for this guy, really meaty projects that put food on his table. Fast forward a year and I call him and ask for his help on a modest pro-bono project for a homeless shelter. We're talking about something that would need to be done sometime over the next six weeks. We get a week into the project when I get an e-mail: "CPG, I'm really busy right now, and I certainly don't have time to do something for free." Yep. He said that.

Now, let's review. The guy had no work when he came to me. He had the wolf at the door, worrying about missing his mortgage payment. I stop what I'm doing to find work for him, work that immediately changes his life situation for the better. So when I ask for a small favor in return, suddenly he just doesn't have the inclination? Ask me now how I'll feel about referring more work his way.

Last edited by cpg35223; 06-20-2016 at 09:07 AM..
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Old 06-20-2016, 08:43 AM
 
23,177 posts, read 12,219,693 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FairMindedLL View Post
That's the problem, I don't have time to throw together an easy sample. It would open me up to her endless suggestions & input, which was part of the original reason I regretted saying yes to the 2nd set of invites. I don't have the energy or space in my packed calendar for the time consuming exercise this will become.
You have the right to change your mind, especially since you don't have the free time that you expected to have. But when you do help out, it's also your right to keep it in check and not let it become a big exercise. If you showed a sample and they start making changes you just need to say look, this is what I can do and all I have time to do.
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Old 06-20-2016, 08:47 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangaia View Post
You have the right to change your mind, especially since you don't have the free time that you expected to have. But when you do help out, it's also your right to keep it in check and not let it become a big exercise. If you showed a sample and they start making changes you just need to say look, this is what I can do and all I have time to do.
I don't agree with the first part, but I certainly agree with the second.

If you're doing something gratis, there are limits on what you should be asked to do. Endless changes on the part of someone who isn't paying you just isn't in the cards. That would be taking advantage of the OP's generosity. A backbone would come in really handy at that point.
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Old 06-20-2016, 09:16 AM
 
22,278 posts, read 21,728,906 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
I totally understand, but that's not the point. She agreed to do it. Her fault, not the person doing the asking. Had she said, "I would love to help, but my time is somewhat limited this summer," nobody would have thought badly of her. Now she's essentially saying, "Oh, you know that think I promised to help with? I just don't have the time." This tells the other person three things:

1) The OP makes promises she doesn't intend to keep.
2) The OP can't manage her time.
3) Mostly importantly of all, the person's project isn't all that important to her. After all, the OP has a couple of months to do this, so the protests that she doesn't have enough time is kind of a fig leaf. She could find the time if she really wanted. We're talking party invitations for Pete's sake.

As a writer, there have been times when you've been asked to work on things that might not necessarily add to your income statement. Maybe it was a pro-bono. Maybe it was a friend needing help on something. And, having been asked, did you suddenly blow it off a few weeks down the road? Probably not.

I had one business contact to whom I had steered a LOT of business. We're talking the guy had originally come to me hat-in-hand asking for work because he had lost his job and was in a bad way. I liked his work so I referred him to a number of people, for which I received his profuse thanks. We're talking tens of thousands in billings for this guy, really meaty projects that put food on his table. Fast forward a year and I call him and ask for his help on a modest pro-bono project for a homeless shelter. We're talking about something that would need to be done sometime over the next six weeks. We get a week into the project when I get an e-mail: "CPG, I'm really busy right now, and I certainly don't have time to do something for free." Yep. He said that.

Now, let's review. The guy had no work when he came to me. He had the wolf at the door, worrying about missing his mortgage payment. I stop what I'm doing to find work for him, work that immediately changes his life situation for the better. So when I ask for a small favor in return, suddenly he just doesn't have the inclination? Ask me now how I'll feel about referring more work his way.
I think we agree, because I also believe she should try to live up to her agreement. But she needs to set boundaries in future. No freebies when it comes to your livelihood. If you draw that bright line, and explain to people who ask favors that it is your strict policy, no exceptions, then normal, reasonable people will understand and accept it.

My point was simple and directed to all: If you do not value your skills and time, who will? It's a mistake new artists make all the time. It devalues all artists when they do.
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Old 06-20-2016, 09:27 AM
 
28,895 posts, read 54,157,635 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zentropa View Post
I think we agree, because I also believe she should try to live up to her agreement. But she needs to set boundaries in future. No freebies when it comes to your livelihood. If you draw that bright line, and explain to people who ask favors that it is your strict policy, no exceptions, then normal, reasonable people will understand and accept it.

My point was simple and directed to all: If you do not value your skills and time, who will? It's a mistake new artists make all the time. It devalues all artists when they do.
And a very good point it is. I'm in a consulting business and I even charge non-profits.

Maybe not my full rate, but I charge something. After all, when something is free, people do not value it.
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Old 06-20-2016, 10:10 AM
 
Location: in a parallel universe
2,648 posts, read 2,316,455 times
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You told her yes and you also told her about some designs you had in mind.

That sounds like a commitment to me. I think you should make good on your word BUT just give her one or two designs and if she doesn't like them then tell her you really don't have the time to devote to the project. You're doing her a favor but your time is valuable too.

Most importantly though I really think you should start practicing saying "I have to think about this' or even 'no' when someone asks you to do something.

My husband is another one who never says no and then he stresses out over keeping those promises. He goes through so much angst over something that could have been avoided if he'd just said 'I don't know'.. or Let me think about it.
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Old 06-20-2016, 10:18 AM
 
28,895 posts, read 54,157,635 times
Reputation: 46685
Quote:
Originally Posted by elliedeee View Post
You told her yes and you also told her about some designs you had in mind.

That sounds like a commitment to me. I think you should make good on your word BUT just give her one or two designs and if she doesn't like them then tell her you really don't have the time to devote to the project. You're doing her a favor but your time is valuable too.

Most importantly though I really think you should start practicing saying "I have to think about this' or even 'no' when someone asks you to do something.

My husband is another one who never says no and then he stresses out over keeping those promises. He goes through so much angst over something that could have been avoided if he'd just said 'I don't know'.. or Let me think about it.
This is so true. The problem with saying "Yes" as a reflex means that you suddenly make the sucker list. I don't mean to be cynical about it. But once people find a soft touch, they keep asking. There are indeed times when I volunteer for specific causes. For example, I give my time willingly to a homeless shelter. But by keeping my commitments shorter, I feel better about the work I do when I am in a position to give it away.
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Old 06-20-2016, 10:46 AM
 
22,278 posts, read 21,728,906 times
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Whoever repped me with the question, the answer is that I am primarily a speechwriter and journalist. Am currently ghostwriting a book for an old friend. I am charging him 70% of my usual day rate because he has helped me professionally along the way.
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