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Obviously you are going to call when it is convenient to you, but what is she doing? My retired mom texts me during the work day a lot. Sometimes I can respond, sometimes I can't. My mom and MIL both like to start text conversations at bed time. I guess they forget the time difference. I'm not sure if your daughter's beef is similar.
No, not really, not from what I can tell. It doesn't matter when I call - she usually doesn't even answer and I end up texting her or whatever. For years I've had an understanding with my adult kids that if we can answer the phone and talk, we do - if not, we just don't answer the phone. So her not answering didn't offend me or even bother me at first...in fact, it still wouldn't except that you'd think EVENTUALLY she would call back or text back or something. Example: I got a text message at 5 pm on Easter that said simply Happy Easter from her - nothing more. I should count myself lucky - my mom didn't even get that.
Anyway so if she DOES my some stroke of luck answer, then the first thing I ask is "Can you talk?" I mean, she has four kids and she homeschools them. I don't expect to get a lot of time from her.
I think we have a basic communication issue and that is that I am very blunt and just up front and matter of fact - for instance if you called and I couldn't talk at the time, I'd say, "Hey, can I call you back in about an hour? I'm about to (fill in the blank)." I mean, that's not a personal rejection. And if you said, "Oh, no, I am having a serious emergency and I was hoping you'd be able to talk," then I'd say, "Well I can certainly do that - what's up?"
But her mind doesn't work that way. She is a TERRIBLE communicator. She lets stuff build up and build up, and pretty soon you know that SOMETHING is wrong, but when you say, "Hey, what's going on? I feel like you're upset with me about something," she will say, "Nothing" or just not take your calls, or (my personal favorite) start making plans to move out of state so she doesn't even have to be in the same state as you. Then when she finally does talk, it's in hysterical form and full of crazy accusations like the one about the rug and throw pillows and her electric bill - I mean, come on, THIS DIDN'T EVEN HAPPEN and you've been mad at me for 2 weeks over this??????????????
I could write a book about the insanity of this relationship, and who knows, I might before it's all said and done, but honestly, I know it's not the phone calls really, or throw pillows or electric bills. I do think she needs to get some counseling - I think there may be a bigger issue at play here. I just hate to assume that and just "get off" scot free, but honestly, I have wracked my brain trying to figure out how to make her like me and apparently she most certainly does not.
Sounds as if her perception of your reality is way off the mark. So, for phone calls, don't tell her what else you're doing. Don't mention sitting in parking lots, waiting to see the doctor, etc. Just be there and let her do most of the talking - but pay attention. Defuse this part of the dysfunction.
Would setting aside a particular time or times each week to call her help? She seems to crave your sole attention, and to be easily threatened and made insecure by anything else that may require your attention. Being upbeat and encouraging to the point of flattery about whatever positive things about her you can honestly praise may help a bit - or she may be a bottomless pit of emotional neediness.
However, it's also clear that she is projecting her thoughts and perceptions onto you, as in the electric bill/new throw pillows incident. She described something that never happened, although the elements of her story were there: unpaid bill, new pillows and rug. If you had contradicted her account, it would then become your word against hers and gotten very unpleasantly personal. And that's something a lot tougher to address than the phone call issue.
No doubt she thinks that she really did tell you about her financial problems - it sounds as if she's convinced herself of this. She is also making herself feel better about herself by casting you as the heartless one here, too. That's very hard to deal with. Books like "Stop Stepping on Eggshells" may have a few suggestions, however, especially when disputed incidents are more significant.
As for criticizing her uncle's taste in ring tones, just ignore it. Just reply "to each his own", if something similar happens again, then compliment HER ring tone or whatever. She sounds extremely insecure or maybe she really doesn't like the "Braveheart" theme or maybe she was just (poorly) making conversation.
Has your daughter ever sought therapy? Much of what you describe sounds like behaviors frequent in people with borderline personality disorder. I am not qualified to diagnose, and certainly not on the basis of your descriptions here - but the issues she is said to demonstrate do line up with BPD. Has she ever self-harmed?
We know from your posts that she gaslights, projects her own problems and issues onto others, sees things in black or white with nothing in between, has unstable relationships, is insecure, impulsive, and very needy when it comes to others. Even if this is not an accurate diagnosis for her, I'd suggest reading about how to relate to people with this disorder and how to understand their thinking and resulting behavior.
Best wishes to you.
Thank you for the thoughtful post.
As far as I know, she has never self harmed, though she does chew her nails down to the very nub, including the skin around her nails, and she lost so much weight after having her fourth child that she is literally skin and bones. I mean, she is thinner than I've ever seen her. She told me it was "stress" but she wouldn't elaborate.
She definitely needs some counseling and possibly some therapy. I am not sure how she stays married. She has told me some horrible things about her husband, and at first I believed them, but then I realized that she tells other people horrible things about me that aren't true so why should I assume she's telling the truth about her husband? At least he's sticking with her and supportive of her, though he does refuse to get a job closer to home (he is gone six days and home 3 and often spends that 6 days completely wayyyyy out of town or out of state, very seldom coming home during those 6 days) even though she is adamant that's what she wants. She even told me, "I don't care if he makes $8 an hour - I want him working at (company) right down the street from our house - he could walk there, he could come home for lunch, he'd be home every night." Something tells me he doesn't want to work that close to home.
She also texts him constantly when he's working. And she homeschools the kids, so they don't go to school. They are not involved in any extracurricular activities with any other kids. They don't live in a neighborhood so there are no other kids around them. They don't go to church. They don't go to any meetings or activities other than stuff like she and her husband taking the kids to the zoo - just their kids, no other kids.
In other words, she is in complete control of that household, doesn't want her husband out of her sight, insists on texting him constantly when he's gone, and manages every single minute of every single day with her kids.
And the last time I saw the kids (six weeks ago, even though they only live an hour away), her oldest was extremely standoffish with me - wouldn't even come give me a hug until I basically just went over and hugged her (she was stiff and very quiet around me). This darling girl is 12 and I'm seeing some behavioral issues with her - not rebellion, she is too obedient a child for that right now. I've seen her grab a book and start hitting herself in the head with it when she was frustrated.
In her defense, she is a very conscientious mother in many ways. She keeps her children immaculately dressed and neat and clean. She cooks very healthy meals for them. She is diligent with her homeschooling and takes it very seriously. She immerses herself in their studies, their projects, etc. She sews and has a little garden and is really a Susie Homemaker. She is very creative and artistic and her house looks like BoHo Paradise. She is a beautiful young woman and takes great care of her appearance.
But she has no friends. She's isolated. And she's creating that same situation with her children.
I just don't know what to do. Prior to this past year, I was very involved with her and with her kids. They spent the night at my house often. I would often go get one grandchild at a time and they'd spend the weekend with me, away from the others, and we'd do stuff like bake cupcakes, go eat at a hibachi grill, go to the movies, etc. Now there's none of that.
This has nothing to do with anything happening recently.
This is a long standing problem that started in her childhood with the mother/daughter relationship.
Well, of course I agree that this started a long time ago. But I thought we had moved forward in a lot of ways. She and I are very different personality wise, and always have been. But we have some common interests and I have been so proud of her as she matured -I've been very supportive of her and her choices up to this year.
She began pulling away - after ten years of adulthood and what I'd consider healthy interaction with me, my husband, and my parents - when both my elderly parents got sick. When my dad died, the **** hit the fan with her. I mean, it hit the FAN.
I am very frustrated because guess what - everything isn't about her feelings. Her emotions. Her perceptions. Her interests. My dad, her grandfather, was very sick - and then he died. No matter - she largely ignored him the last year of his life. She would have told you, "I just can't handle seeing him sick." It didn't matter that HE needed HER.
Same with my mom - who is very frail and elderly, and who adores my daughter and those great grandkids. My mom needs HER - but "she can't stand seeing her so sick."
She reminds me of my mentally ill brother (I have two - one is not mentally ill and one is) who actually told me recently that our mother getting old OFFENDS him. As if it is about him. He actually said, "I'm having a hard time dealing with realizing that she can't give me the emotional support I need." I said, "Hey - she needs YOUR emotional support, 45 year old man! She lost her husband of 57 years. She broke her hip. She had a stroke. SHE needs YOU."
But he still calls me after their phone conversations saying, "I'm really trying not to be offended by Mom having such short conversations with me."
I do get it. It's similar to people who only call people while they're waiting in an airport.
They are just calling the person because they are trying to kill time and keep occupied while waiting. It's insulting.
They wouldn't be calling the person unless they were at the airport, needed to kill time, wanting to stave off boredom, and wanted to use the person to keep their mind occupied because waiting in an airport is not fun for many people.
This is similar to calling people while you're commuting or driving - you're trying to kill time and keep yourself and mind occupied while you're commuting or driving. A way to stave off boredom. So the person you are calling feels used. (sometimes)
I do get it. It's similar to people who only call people while they're waiting in an airport.
They are just calling the person because they are trying to kill time and keep occupied while waiting. It's insulting.
They wouldn't be calling the person unless they were at the airport, needed to kill time, wanting to stave off boredom, and wanted to use the person to keep their mind occupied because waiting in an airport is not fun for many people.
This is similar to calling people while you're commuting or driving - you're trying to kill time and keep yourself and mind occupied while you're commuting or driving. A way to stave off boredom. So the person you are calling feels used. (sometimes)
I don't know - seems like a reach to me. I mean, when do you call people to chat? When it's convenient or when it's inconvenient?
For lots of people, they have free time when they're driving somewhere. Sorry, I just don't get why that would be so offensive. I mean, I can understand that if you ONLY called them when you were driving somewhere, talked about yourself for five or ten minutes and then said, "Hey, I'm in front of the store - gotta go!" THAT would be offensive, but like I said, I've often gotten to wherever I was going and then just sat there talking with my daughter ("with," not "to" my daughter) for an hour - because if she can talk, I want to hear what she has to say.
I just think it's really a stretch to be offended by that. It honestly never occurred to me to be offended when someone called me from their car. I never thought, "They don't really want to talk to me - they're just bored." Maybe I'm missing something, but honestly, my mind doesn't work that way, but maybe it's because I DON'T call the people I love just to kill time.
The fact that she felt the need to make the comment tells me that perhaps you aren't as successful as you think at considering whether or not it's a convenient time for her. She apparently feels like you only take your own convenience into consideration, and it's apparently not working for her. Perhaps when you call, start out by asking "is this a good time for you to talk?"
Maybe the daughter is only focusing on the times the OP calls when it's inconvenient to the daughter? IOW, maybe she's only fixating on the negative, and isn't aware that mom will spend 40 minutes sitting in the parking lot to see the conversation to its natural end?
OP, I actually have a couple of the same pet peeves as your daughter, but the people who I have the peeves with didn't show the consideration you explained in your post. I have a friend who pretty much only calls when she's stuck in traffic, or has time to kill while riding a ferry. IOW, she calls because she's bored and needs to kill time. (She uses a hands-free phone in the car.) My mother always used to call me in the afternoon when I was at work. At least half the time, I'd be out of the office, and the supervisor would tell her (every time) that no personal calls are allowed at work. After enough of this, she started lying, and inventing stories about dire family emergencies that required me to call her back immediately. After several of those that turned out to be nothing, I got very strange looks from my super. The deal was that my mother would always be bored in the afternoons, having nothing to do, after having spent the mornings on the phone with her friends. So it was clear she was calling me out of boredom. She never called in the evenings or weekends, when I was free to take calls at home.
In order to change your daughter's perception, why not desist calling her from the car? Then she'd no longer have that excuse to harangue you with. If she complains about you calling when it's convenient to you, not her, simply say, "I thought I had your schedule down, but maybe it's changed. Tell me when good times/days are for me to call you." End of issue. After that, she won't have a leg to stand on to dramatize or whatever.
So, what's the difference if you are at home, on your couch, not doing anything else but completely focused on the phone call -- and have to wind down the call after a certain point because you can't just sit on your couch talking all day?
What's the difference if you are ending the call because you've arrived for your colonoscopy or you end the call because you are tired of sitting around on the couch?
Or I guess she wants to be the one to end the call?
I don't think she meant she's upset by your calling when it's convenient, more the fact that it's only convenient when you can squeeze her in while doing other things. I think it's her round about way of saying she wants more of your undivided attention and for you to make time specifically to converse with her, not just the spare time in between doing other things.
I just think it's really a stretch to be offended by that. It honestly never occurred to me to be offended when someone called me from their car. I never thought, "They don't really want to talk to me - they're just bored." Maybe I'm missing something, but honestly, my mind doesn't work that way, but maybe it's because I DON'T call the people I love just to kill time.
I feel the same. In fact, I appreciate that people call from the car because I interpret it as they want to make sure they get to talk to me as soon as possible, and not put it off until "later" -- when "later" will usually end up not happening due to new distractions or "fires" that need to be put out.
(Now, there are those who I don't want to talk to, who I would probably use the "sorry i have been driving all day and didn't get a chance to call you..." excuse.)
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