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Old 05-07-2017, 10:55 AM
 
Location: in a parallel universe
2,648 posts, read 2,291,858 times
Reputation: 5894

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue17 View Post
I am mostly here to vent, but would love to have suggestions on how to work through my dilemma as well.

My boyfriend (35) and I (28) have been dating for almost two years now. He is the first guy I've ever really trusted and felt he wouldn't try to take advantage of me or drop me when things got tough. And so far he has proved just that. He sticks around. He is great to me. He loves me, I love him. He is not the most romantic guy, but that's not an issue for me. He and I have been talking more and more lately about moving in together and possibly starting a family in the next year or two.

This is the sort of stuff I would like to talk to a parent about. Let them know that, I'm with this guy, we're thinking about our future together. For me, that person is my grandmother. She raised me, so she is really like my mom. It is, however, extremely difficult to talk to her about most things. It has been since the start of my "adulthood." She is always giving me unsolicited advise and letting me know how things should be done - fine, she is a parent, and she only wants whats in my best interest.

It becomes a problem, however, when she insists that I do NOT know what I want, and that I couldn't possibly be able to decide whether this guy is right for me. The argument really started when I told her that we were thinking about moving in together, and she told me that it would be sinful if we weren't married and he would end up leaving me for somebody else and taking everything from me.

I asked her not to be so critical of our relationship and trust that, at nearly 30, I am perfectly capable of deciding what's right for my life. I have told her since I was young that marriage probably wasn't something that I would do, so this shouldn't be a shock to her.

She does not believe we could truly love each other because we don't spend every day together. We have both worked different schedules nearly our entire relationship - of course we can't see each other every day. Even if we did have the same schedule, we are both introverts who enjoy doing our own thing and having down time.

It's just difficult for me to have my own grandmother (mom) speaking so negatively and acting as if I cannot make these decisions. My entire life she (and the rest of the family) have praised me for being so responsible and adult-like. Managing family members money at a young age, etc. What makes it different now that I am older?


I know. This is my life. I have to live it. Only I know what's best for me. But I know how my grandmother operates, and it does pain me that she will just about "disown" me should I decide to move in with my boyfriend (or worse - start a family) without being married.


I don't understand how parents can be so tied to controlling their children's life and being critical of them for their choices. This is something that I hope my future children never have to experience.
I don't think Gram is trying to control your life. She's probably concerned about your statements in the passage I bolded and wants you to avoid making a mistake. Who are you trying to convince with that passage? Us or yourself?

Quote:
He's not the most romantic guy.
.
why did you even need to include that statement? We don't care but obviously you do or you wouldn't have said it.

Quote:
He is the first guy I've ever really trusted and felt he wouldn't try to take advantage of me or drop me when things got tough.
How many other guys has Gram seen come into your life that you've been hurt by? Maybe she doesn't really trust your judgement in men.
She's only looking out for you. Yes, it's your life but I think if you really felt confident in your decision to move in with this guy, you'd just do it and not seek approval from Gram.

If you really want Gram's blessing then let her meet this guy and get to know him. If he's as wonderful as you say, I'm sure she'll come around.
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Old 05-07-2017, 11:01 AM
 
11,337 posts, read 10,984,734 times
Reputation: 14993
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibbiekat View Post
blah, blah, blah. First of all, I never said that. Apparently you focused only on one sentence and ignored the rest of my post that wasn't about you.

Part of me is very traditional. I didn't live with my husband before we were married, and it wasn't really an accepted practice in the older generation of my family. At the time, I felt that if you really want to start your life togeter, get married.

I'm also pretty liberal, for lack of a better word. I know there is more than one way to do things, and that it is none of my business what 2 30-ish year old people do in their personal life. Many, if not most couple live together before marriage these days. It is a good "next" step in many cases, and gives you the experience without legally binding yourself to that person. Heck, part of me thinks marriage itself is outdated and unnecessary.

For me, it worked to just get married (although we practically lived together for months before). For many others, it works to live together first. Who are you to tell the OP what to do? She didn't come here asking for advice on that. She came asking for advice on how to deal with her old fashioned grand mother, whose only real point is that it's sinful.
Better. You're doing better. No personal attacks, just advice for the poster.

So, OP, my advice is the opposite. Don't shack up. Date and evaluate. The purpose of dating is to determine compatibility and character and make a rational decision that will affect your happiness and effectiveness for the rest of your life, and possibly your children's lives.

And your family's opinion and evaluation of your boyfriend IS RELEVANT. Your family, your friends, ALL should like and approve and have a good impression of your potential mate.

Date. And evaluate.

Don't shack up. Not because it's a sin. It has nothing to do with God or religion. The reason not to shack up is because it clouds judgment, wastes valuable time, and confuses objectivity. Once you are sharing Hefty bags and humping each other and time is passing, you will not be able to make a good objective judgment on the value, character, and compatibility of your mate. You will look the other way. Red flags will be ignored. The investment will already be made, the ship will already be sailing in open waters, the port will be past where the rear view mirror can see. Getting out will require great effort, great pain, and admission of defeat (to your ego) and failure of introspection and extrospection.

Date. And evaluate.

If the person is not worth marrying, and does not create the desire of wanting to be married, then you have system failure and it's time to move on.

And moving on will be much easier because you are not sharing Hefty bags, not having to break a lease, not having to split assets, and not having to wonder why he stopped humping you, or you him.

You're not dating him because you love him. You are dating him to discern if he is worth loving. And whether the love will last for the duration of your life.

And in this case, since the romance is already lacking, and the ring has not been offered, but shacking up HAS been offered and is thought to be good enough, I would say this not the right match. In which case, break it off, or continue to: Date. And evaluate.

I don't know how long this has been going on, but if you are over a year or so, and marriage is not in the cards, it's time to pull the plug and find someone else who does qualify for a lifelong commitment. Time is very short, especially the time frame for starting a family. It's basically 28-39 ideally. That means 20-27 to find the right person. You have to use that limited amount of time effectively. Most prospects can be dumped in days or weeks. You have to be smart and energetic in qualifying potential mates. Wasting time with 2-10 year shack ups? Stupid!

I think the common mistake is substituting dating for marriage, and not using dating for what it is supposed to be used for: determining character and suitability for marriage. It's not about love, because love is not enough, or even close. It is necessary, but it is NOT SUFFICIENT.

Damned this is good advice. Is there any way I can monetize this?


Here's a good book that illustrates an approach:


https://www.amazon.com/Profiling-You.../dp/0312362277


Written for women, but guys can use this too. It goes both ways.

Last edited by Marc Paolella; 05-07-2017 at 11:20 AM..
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Old 05-07-2017, 12:51 PM
 
Location: Queens, NY
4,525 posts, read 3,388,111 times
Reputation: 6030
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
Better. You're doing better. No personal attacks, just advice for the poster.

So, OP, my advice is the opposite. Don't shack up. Date and evaluate. The purpose of dating is to determine compatibility and character and make a rational decision that will affect your happiness and effectiveness for the rest of your life, and possibly your children's lives.

And your family's opinion and evaluation of your boyfriend IS RELEVANT. Your family, your friends, ALL should like and approve and have a good impression of your potential mate.

Date. And evaluate.

Don't shack up. Not because it's a sin. It has nothing to do with God or religion. The reason not to shack up is because it clouds judgment, wastes valuable time, and confuses objectivity. Once you are sharing Hefty bags and humping each other and time is passing, you will not be able to make a good objective judgment on the value, character, and compatibility of your mate. You will look the other way. Red flags will be ignored. The investment will already be made, the ship will already be sailing in open waters, the port will be past where the rear view mirror can see. Getting out will require great effort, great pain, and admission of defeat (to your ego) and failure of introspection and extrospection.

Date. And evaluate.

If the person is not worth marrying, and does not create the desire of wanting to be married, then you have system failure and it's time to move on.

And moving on will be much easier because you are not sharing Hefty bags, not having to break a lease, not having to split assets, and not having to wonder why he stopped humping you, or you him.

You're not dating him because you love him. You are dating him to discern if he is worth loving. And whether the love will last for the duration of your life.

And in this case, since the romance is already lacking, and the ring has not been offered, but shacking up HAS been offered and is thought to be good enough, I would say this not the right match. In which case, break it off, or continue to: Date. And evaluate.

I don't know how long this has been going on, but if you are over a year or so, and marriage is not in the cards, it's time to pull the plug and find someone else who does qualify for a lifelong commitment. Time is very short, especially the time frame for starting a family. It's basically 28-39 ideally. That means 20-27 to find the right person. You have to use that limited amount of time effectively. Most prospects can be dumped in days or weeks. You have to be smart and energetic in qualifying potential mates. Wasting time with 2-10 year shack ups? Stupid!

I think the common mistake is substituting dating for marriage, and not using dating for what it is supposed to be used for: determining character and suitability for marriage. It's not about love, because love is not enough, or even close. It is necessary, but it is NOT SUFFICIENT.

Damned this is good advice. Is there any way I can monetize this?


Here's a good book that illustrates an approach:


https://www.amazon.com/Profiling-You.../dp/0312362277


Written for women, but guys can use this too. It goes both ways.
Getting your friends and family's opinion of your SO is fine, but at the end of the day, only you know your SO best, not them.

Besides, some parents simply don't like ANY SO their kid brings around. Are you just going to stop dating every single person just because they don't like them? Lol.

Also, who's to say you can't date someone because you love them, but also see if they're worth loving (if they truly feel the same), and see if it can last? Like you said, love is not always enough.
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Old 05-07-2017, 12:58 PM
 
Location: here
24,873 posts, read 36,055,404 times
Reputation: 32726
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewYorker11356 View Post
Getting your friends and family's opinion of your SO is fine, but at the end of the day, only you know your SO best, not them.

Besides, some parents simply don't like ANY SO their kid brings around. Are you just going to stop dating every single person just because they don't like them? Lol.

Also, who's to say you can't date someone because you love them, but also see if they're worth loving (if they truly feel the same), and see if it can last? Like you said, love is not always enough.
The OP is also talking about her grand mother, not her mother. There is a 2 generation difference there. She specified the reason she doesn't agree with moving in is that it's a sin. Fine for that to be grandma's opinion. Fine for that to be Marc's opinion. But if it isn't the OP's opinion, it doesn't matter.
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Old 05-07-2017, 01:02 PM
 
Location: here
24,873 posts, read 36,055,404 times
Reputation: 32726
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
Better. You're doing better. No personal attacks, just advice for the poster.

So, OP, my advice is the opposite. Don't shack up. Date and evaluate. The purpose of dating is to determine compatibility and character and make a rational decision that will affect your happiness and effectiveness for the rest of your life, and possibly your children's lives.

And your family's opinion and evaluation of your boyfriend IS RELEVANT. Your family, your friends, ALL should like and approve and have a good impression of your potential mate.

Date. And evaluate.

Don't shack up. Not because it's a sin. It has nothing to do with God or religion. The reason not to shack up is because it clouds judgment, wastes valuable time, and confuses objectivity. Once you are sharing Hefty bags and humping each other and time is passing, you will not be able to make a good objective judgment on the value, character, and compatibility of your mate. You will look the other way. Red flags will be ignored. The investment will already be made, the ship will already be sailing in open waters, the port will be past where the rear view mirror can see. Getting out will require great effort, great pain, and admission of defeat (to your ego) and failure of introspection and extrospection.

Date. And evaluate.

If the person is not worth marrying, and does not create the desire of wanting to be married, then you have system failure and it's time to move on.

And moving on will be much easier because you are not sharing Hefty bags, not having to break a lease, not having to split assets, and not having to wonder why he stopped humping you, or you him.

You're not dating him because you love him. You are dating him to discern if he is worth loving. And whether the love will last for the duration of your life.

And in this case, since the romance is already lacking, and the ring has not been offered, but shacking up HAS been offered and is thought to be good enough, I would say this not the right match. In which case, break it off, or continue to: Date. And evaluate.

I don't know how long this has been going on, but if you are over a year or so, and marriage is not in the cards, it's time to pull the plug and find someone else who does qualify for a lifelong commitment. Time is very short, especially the time frame for starting a family. It's basically 28-39 ideally. That means 20-27 to find the right person. You have to use that limited amount of time effectively. Most prospects can be dumped in days or weeks. You have to be smart and energetic in qualifying potential mates. Wasting time with 2-10 year shack ups? Stupid!

I think the common mistake is substituting dating for marriage, and not using dating for what it is supposed to be used for: determining character and suitability for marriage. It's not about love, because love is not enough, or even close. It is necessary, but it is NOT SUFFICIENT.

Damned this is good advice. Is there any way I can monetize this?


Here's a good book that illustrates an approach:


https://www.amazon.com/Profiling-You.../dp/0312362277


Written for women, but guys can use this too. It goes both ways.
re the bolded, she never once said her family doesn't like the guy. She said her grandma doesn't think they should live together.

re the rest, I don't even necessarily disagree with you, but I 100% disagree with your arrogant delivery. There is no reason to pretend you know any more about this subject than anyone else here, including the OP.
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Old 05-07-2017, 01:07 PM
 
11,337 posts, read 10,984,734 times
Reputation: 14993
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewYorker11356 View Post
Getting your friends and family's opinion of your SO is fine, but at the end of the day, only you know your SO best, not them.

Besides, some parents simply don't like ANY SO their kid brings around. Are you just going to stop dating every single person just because they don't like them? Lol.

Also, who's to say you can't date someone because you love them, but also see if they're worth loving (if they truly feel the same), and see if it can last? Like you said, love is not always enough.

I am presuming good parents. Psycho parents who auto-hate everyone their kids date are not included. And parents like that should be dropped from your life in any case. Let's update and improve this. Everyone you are close to and respect should have a decent opinion of someone you are considering marrying. If there are lots of mixed signals, then something is probably wrong and you should consider taking a more critical look.


Or even go into pre-marital counselling to gain more clarity. Because when you marry someone, you are not only marrying them, you are marrying their life, including their family and friends. You are marrying their convictions, both conscious and submerged. You are marrying their limitations. You are marrying their potential. You are marrying their character. And you are marrying their past and where it has left them. Love is sweet and love is mandatory, but love is only a start. And in the final analysis, reason trumps love, and you have to rely on your brains and cognitive skills to assess the REALITY of your partner. Positive emotions of love should FOLLOW and be LINKED to positive assessment and evaluation of your partner's character.


Red flags should short-circuit love, and cancel it out if the red is a bold shade.
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Old 05-07-2017, 01:13 PM
 
Location: here
24,873 posts, read 36,055,404 times
Reputation: 32726
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
I am presuming good parents. Psycho parents who auto-hate everyone their kids date are not included. And parents like that should be dropped from your life in any case. Let's update and improve this. Everyone you are close to and respect should have a decent opinion of someone you are considering marrying. If there are lots of mixed signals, then something is probably wrong and you should consider taking a more critical look.


Or even go into pre-marital counselling to gain more clarity. Because when you marry someone, you are not only marrying them, you are marrying their life, including their family and friends. You are marrying their convictions, both conscious and submerged. You are marrying their limitations. You are marrying their potential. You are marrying their character. And you are marrying their past and where it has left them. Love is sweet and love is mandatory, but love is only a start. And in the final analysis, reason trumps love, and you have to rely on your brains and cognitive skills to assess the REALITY of your partner. Positive emotions of love should FOLLOW and be LINKED to positive assessment and evaluation of your partner's character.


Red flags should short-circuit love, and cancel it out if the red is a bold shade.
Why are you on this tangent, anyway? She never said there were any issues with any of the stuff you are ranting about. Calm down.
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Old 05-07-2017, 01:14 PM
 
11,337 posts, read 10,984,734 times
Reputation: 14993
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibbiekat View Post
re the bolded, she never once said her family doesn't like the guy. She said her grandma doesn't think they should live together.

re the rest, I don't even necessarily disagree with you, but I 100% disagree with your arrogant delivery. There is no reason to pretend you know any more about this subject than anyone else here, including the OP.
I agree with grandma, they shouldn't live together until there is a ring and a date and positive assessment on the character and intentions of the guy. Don't worry about my delivery, I write to inform, but also to entertain myself. And I DO prefer a hyperbolic and arrogant style. It's just more interesting to be blunt and to the point. Those who disagree may offer opposing content and ideas in a style that suits them.
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Old 05-07-2017, 01:18 PM
 
11,337 posts, read 10,984,734 times
Reputation: 14993
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibbiekat View Post
Why are you on this tangent, anyway? She never said there were any issues with any of the stuff you are ranting about. Calm down.
Yes she did. You've got to read between the lines. When someone drops something like "He's not the most romantic guy, but that's not important to me", a whole kettle of fish just dropped from the mezzanine and crashed to smitherines on the marble floor of the lobby, demanding analysis and recommendations.
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Old 05-07-2017, 01:36 PM
 
35 posts, read 38,414 times
Reputation: 17
I'm in a bit of a hurry this afternoon and haven't had time to read through all of the responses completely, but I will add this here for clarification:

My entire family (grandmother included) loves my current boyfriend and his family. They've actually said they'd like us to be married one day. I think this issue with my grandmother is that I'm considering moving in with him BEFORE we go to the church and get married. But again, I have never saw marriage as high on my priority list. I'm not concerned that my boyfriend would ever do me wrong or hurt me in any way. It could happen. Anything is possible. I just don't see it as likely. Even my grandmother has said she trusts him, he's a good guy, he wouldn't hurt a fly, etc.

I have had relationships or dates in the past, but only a couple that were truly a disaster. They have all taught me some life lessons though, and for the most part I do have good judgment. I've actually always preferred the single life and planned to stay that way, before meeting my boyfriend. He and I were friends and co-workers before we got together. I know he's not a bad person, he's dependable, he's loyal, etc. I've experienced this stuff from him on more than a romantic relationship level.


Thank you all for responding. I will read through these more in depth in a bit.
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