Parents/grandparents being judgmental, critical, etc of children. (grandmother, conversation, college)
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Concentrate on the philosophy, not making personal attacks. People don't learn from personal attacks. So in this case, you want to make the argument that it is good and beneficial for the poster to move in with her boyfriend without a commitment and ignore the advice of her grandmother. Stay with that. Personally attacking posters you disagree with will not advance the philosophy. So stay focused and concentrate on why shacking up is good for people and good for the poster.
As far as sex and romance, the poster is settling for one without the other, and that is a big mistake. You don't choose a mate who cannot demonstrate love and respect through tender romantic behavior. You don't choose a mate who doesn't demonstrate love and respect by making a tangible, explicit, lifelong commitment (marriage). A lifetime is a long time, and lack of romance is not something to be accepted at the beginning of a relationship. It is a red flag, in fact, it is a STOP SIGN. It is an indicator of a serious psychological problem, and is a DEAL BREAKER.
That is my advice. Let's summarize. Dude wants to hump me, doesn't want to buy me flowers. Dude wants to move in with me, and SPLIT EXPENSES with me, but does not want to marry me. Is this a good and healthy path to follow? Does my grandmother, who is my mother, who loves me and raised me, and presumably has my best interests at heart, think I am following a good and healthy path? Does the smart real estate agent on the Internet think it's a good idea?
The answers are no, no, and no.
Now, tell her why it's a good idea to move in with and plan children with a person without a commitment, and without romance. Make that case. No personal attacks, just making cases. Can you do that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella
If she knew her own mind, she wouldn't need, or want, her grandmother's approval. If she knew her own mind, show wouldn't drop the bombshell that romance is unnecessary - in a romantic relationship. If she knew her own mind, she wouldn't be against getting married, since it is the exact legal and practical relationship that is designed expressly for loving couples who want to spend the rest of their lives together and perhaps one day bring new life into the world. If she knew her own mind, she would not be seeking the approval or a rationale from anonymous Internet strangers.
The fact is, she is ambivalent, does not know her own mind, is trying to clarify and justify decisions that are soon to be made, and is making errors about the importance of romance and the importance of selecting a good plan for evaluating a potential mate.
Since she is asking, she has questions. They are best asked in a pre-marital counselling session with a professional to guide them. Family members and friends and Internet strangers all have their own baggage, which can lead to stupid advice - like "you know what's right for you", and other such tripe. Many people DON'T know what's right for them, which is why we have smokers, drunks, serial daters, gamblers, Democrats...
Hmmm.
Do as you say, not as you do?
FWIW, the OP didn't ask for advice about her relationship with her boyfriend. You are the one who has strayed far afield of what she was actually asking about, attacking the OP while dropping gratuitous insults of others in the process.
FWIW, the OP didn't ask for advice about her relationship with her boyfriend. You are the one who has strayed far afield of what she was actually asking about, attacking the OP while dropping gratuitous insults of others in the process.
You didn't make your case at all. My description of general personality types that "don't know what they want" was in no way a personal attack on the poster I quoted. Smokers, drunks, druggies, serial daters, etc absolutely don't know what they want. In fact, these are all escapist behaviors that expressly depart from the enterprise of figuring out what you want.
And I am under no obligation to limit my response to a question by making assumptions that you disagree with in regard to its width. "He's not very romantic, but I don't care about that", opens the field wide open, with relevant implications far beyond the concerns with the grandmother.
The problems that are not asked about, but referenced obliquely, contribute to the grandmother's concern. And in fact, having been voiced at all, expose concern from the poster herself with regard to the viability of this long term relationship.
Therefore, on the table, and subject to legitimate discourse.
Why are you only focusing on what the dude wants? Maybe SHE wants to move in with HIM and not get married?
It's a mistake either way. But most of the time, it is the male who initiates a shack up. Not always, but usually. But it's not important. The magnitude and rationale for the mistake does not change with who initiates it.
And the IQ levels I am observing force me to disclaim that my contributions are opinions, and are not based on religion, and do no carry the weight of law. Anyone may shack up with and give their bodies and/or minds to anyone they want, anytime they want, for any reason they want. It's a free country. And people can live with whoever they want, in any arrangement they want. Even if it sabotages their own best long term interests.
Doing what you want and doing what is right are NOT always the same thing. That is why the poster is asking questions in the first place. She obviously wants to move in with the dude, and she obviously will move in with the dude, but there are some nagging questions. Seeking approval from grandma (effectively mom), and making justifications to Internet strangers means there is some DOUBT. In my opinion, CORRECTLY SO. Lack of romance now may not seem like such a big deal. But a lack of tenderness and gentle attention indicates discomfort with intimacy, and an inability to fully bond with a mate, and eventually, kids. So it's a huge red flag. Grandma is not the problem, this is the bigger problem.
I know several successful couples who have raised successful children to successful adulthood without being married, and I also know quite a few successful single parents who have done the same.
It might be far less than you think from outward appearances. The damage from single parenthood is subtle and insidious and is often not obvious. Child seems happy and gets a college degree and gets married with fabulous wedding pictures and gets pregnant 2 years later. But then time goes by and with 2 kids 12 and 14, the couple decides to divorce due to infidelity or verbal abuse or substance abuse or what have you. Was it a personality failure resulting from developmental damage caused by the lack of a father? Guess what? It probably was. But everyone will say everything was fine and I was the "best mother ever" and we didn't need a man and my kids grew up in a loving home and everything was peachy. Except it wasn't. And it couldn't be. Because healthy development of a child requires a mom and a dad, not just one or the other, and no amount of love from one can replace the love missing from the other.
But things can look swell and everybody can congratulate themselves. Until it all goes to sh**. And judging by the 50% divorce rate we see in the single parent daycare-in-loco parentis world we live in, things are going to sh** far too often and in ways we don't fully see or appreciate.
So be careful about lauding single parent households. They are actually an horrible way to consider raising kids and are usually a disaster, sometimes sooner and obviously, but often later and amorphously.
It might be far less than you think from outward appearances. The damage from single parenthood is subtle and insidious and is often not obvious. Child seems happy and gets a college degree and gets married with fabulous wedding pictures and gets pregnant 2 years later. But then time goes by and with 2 kids 12 and 14, the couple decides to divorce due to infidelity or verbal abuse or substance abuse or what have you. Was it a personality failure resulting from developmental damage caused by the lack of a father? Guess what? It probably was. But everyone will say everything was fine and I was the "best mother ever" and we didn't need a man and my kids grew up in a loving home and everything was peachy. Except it wasn't. And it couldn't be. Because healthy development of a child requires a mom and a dad, not just one or the other, and no amount of love from one can replace the love missing from the other.
But things can look swell and everybody can congratulate themselves. Until it all goes to sh**. And judging by the 50% divorce rate we see in the single parent daycare-in-loco parentis world we live in, things are going to sh** far too often and in ways we don't fully see or appreciate.
So be careful about lauding single parent households. They are actually an horrible way to consider raising kids and are usually a disaster, sometimes sooner and obviously, but often later and amorphously.
I'm talking about my friends' children who are now successful adults with children of their own. Also, I'd wager 85% of folks I know that I grew up with come from single-parent homes, mostly from divorce, and the vast majority of them are doing just dandy in their middle age. So, piffle.
I'm talking about my friends' children who are now successful adults with children of their own. Also, I'd wager 85% of folks I know that I grew up with come from single-parent homes, mostly from divorce, and the vast majority of them are doing just dandy in their middle age. So, piffle.
85%, eh? That's a really nice number. And all just dandy. And all from broken families. But perfectly giddy and leading brilliant and well adjusted lives. How lovely.
All I can add is that if you decide not to get married, at least the two of you should give each other medical power of attorney, so that, God forbid, if anything bad should happen, you can make medical decisions for each other. If you're not married, then you're not next of kin. His parents and children are. You won't be allowed into the hospital to see him if he's in intensive care. His parents or children will. Legally speaking, you're really nobody...no more than just a friend. Medical power of attorney would solve that problem. If he should die, you might have his relatives swoop in and take all of his things.......things that would mean a lot to you and your memories of him. So if you buy a house together, be sure it's titled in both of your names or you'll lose half of it to his relatives if he passes before you. Remember, you're not next of kin, they are. His things belong to them.
Marriage isn't just until death do us part. As another poster pointed out, it also affects which way pensions and social security go, although you can make each other beneficiaries for that. Marriage is the "official" way to say I love you enough to put it in writing.
85%, eh? That's a really nice number. And all just dandy. And all from broken families. But perfectly giddy and leading brilliant and well adjusted lives. How lovely.
[quote=Marc Paolella;48079870]Many people DON'T know what's right for them, which is why we have smokers, drunks, serial daters, gamblers, Democrats QUOTE]
Yes she did. You've got to read between the lines. When someone drops something like "He's not the most romantic guy, but that's not important to me", a whole kettle of fish just dropped from the mezzanine and crashed to smitherines on the marble floor of the lobby, demanding analysis and recommendations.
I LOVE your writing style and you have presented dozens of good ideas here along with sound advice. Obviously the op isn't going to hear you and I am sure you already heard from the 'single mothers are the greatest' contingent but when most (if not all) of them are honest with themselves they will realize that they are making the best of a inferior situation. Many (if not all) would have had someone in their lives to say what you have said, they wouldn't be single mothers in the first place. Keep posting....PLEASE! (but lay off the democrats...YOUR ilk voted for that orange thing...NOT US!)
Last edited by 4janeydoe; 05-21-2017 at 06:43 PM..
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