What age does a woman qualify for ma'am? (brother, wife, female)

[PesachSeder]

Originally Posted by Inquest

I've heard that some women see "ma'am" as a form of address that makes them sound old. To them, I ask two questions-1)What age would you be fine with/expect to be called "ma'am" (and how old would a woman look before you would use "ma'am" on her), and 2)How would you prefer to be addressed if not "ma'am," (and what degree of respect would you show to a woman too young for "ma'am")?

Technically since "ma'am" is a contraction of "madame" it's appropriate for a married woman of any age.

[War Beagle]

It's short for madam not "old hag". It has everything to do with respect and nothing to do with age.

Being offended about being called ma'am suggests some significant insecurities.

[Jean-Francois]

Originally Posted by MsMetal

Hmmm, interesting. Not sure what to say to that, as shaking hands is the polite thing to do when introduced in the US, so I can't imagine not shaking hands with any new person I meet on a business level. When it's social, I can just say 'nice to meet you' & not touch. I can understand the touching thing, as a poster below you said he lightly kisses a woman he is introduced to, on the cheek & I would find that extremely presumptuous, invasive & bordering on sexual harassment (in the USA), as I certainly would not allow a stranger to kiss me.

It's the implication that somehow it's acceptable for men to shake hands as a greeting, but not women, that's troubling. I can understand not wanting to touch any stranger (and I'm not even a germaphobe), but I'd rather not. IDK that she "wants" to touch you. It's just considered the acceptable greeting in the US. I'd rather not shake hands with anyone I don't know & I certainly am not ok with kisses from strangers, but it's how we do it here & it would be rude to not shake hands in a business situation. In fact, it could seriously harm your business relationship. I think I'd prefer the Japanese tradition of a slight bow - no touching at all. I just don't understand why it would be okay to shake a man's hand & not a woman's.

I can totally understand your feelings about a man who is a stranger to you kissing you lightly on each cheek, (actually it's more like touching cheek to cheek, than lips to cheek).
It's not something that we Brits ever do with a complete and total stranger, but in an effort to illustrate how innocent it really is, one lunchtime in Lille, northern France, I was enjoying a glass of wine at a sidewalk café with my wife.
At the next table was a couple in their thirties, as a French speaker it was obvious to me from snatches of their conversation that they were co-workers, not 'an item.'
Suddenly a woman, apparently a friend of the female of the couple, stopped to say hello to her.
The women exchanged air kisses, then the first woman introduced the man, "Chlöe, this is Pierre", he stood, put his hands lightly on her arms then kissed her on each cheek, completely natural to a Frenchman being introduced to a female friend of a friend, even though he'd never met her before.
It's just as natural to me if my sister should introduce me to her female friends, they know I'm not hitting on them, I know, and my wife knows, no harm, no foul.
As this form of greeting is virtually ingrained in me, and also in lots of European men and women, I find it difficult to come to terms with anyone seeing it as "bordering on sexual harassment", but I think that I can almost see your reasoning, as I know that Americans can sometimes appear to be a tad more 'tightly wound' to we Brits, or even to most Europeans.
This is not a bad thing, no matter what subtle differences there may be between us, in all my times in the U.S., I've never met an American that I didn't like, but with over 300 million of you there may be one somewhere, but it's not you MsMetal.

[vanizorc]

Just my opinion, but women who hate being addressed as ma'am because it makes them "feel/sound old" come across as insecure and vain.
To me, it's always just been a neutral term of respect (the analogue of "sir" - and I don't hear of many young men taking issue with being called sir because it makes them "feel old").

I'm a relatively young woman (26) and I've been called ma'am fairly often, ever since my late teens. I presume it's not so much how I look, but how I act. My personality is quite formal/serious and business-like. I always liked being addressed as "ma'am" - makes me feel respected. Certainly much, much better than "miss".

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by PesachSeder

Technically since "ma'am" is a contraction of "madame" it's appropriate for a married woman of any age.

How could you possibly know if a total stranger is married or not?

[sheena12]

SOUTH - you will never change the North. When we do not understand what was just said, we will respond with "Excuse me? I didn't hear what you said", rather than "Sir?" or "Ma'am?"

It's just not going to happen in Brooklyn NY or Burlington VT. Ditto most of the upper Midwest and West Coast.

NORTH? - You like the weather in the South and travel their frequently in the Winter. You may have relocated there. While visited QUIT BEING OFFENDED if someone addresses you as "ma'am" or "sir". They are just being polite.

Here is an alternative - never leave your comfort zone. Miss out on meeting other Americans who speak differently than you do. Park your butt in front of a flat screen with a regional beer in hand and watch local programing.

It's an option, but a sad option.

[mash123]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

How could you possibly know if a total stranger is married or not?

A gold ring on the ring finger?

[ncole1]

It's fine when they are old enough that you can "presume" that they are married. I'd agree with the 30 answer many are giving here.

[C24L]

maybe around the 30s to 40s

[Ralph_Kirk]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

How could you possibly know if a total stranger is married or not?

You don't.


Unfortunately, "Ms" (or the much longer-standing Southern version, "Miz") isn't as easily usable as a pronoun as "Miss," so "ma'am" gets pressed into service for both married and unmarried women.