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Old 06-29-2017, 06:59 AM
 
2,380 posts, read 1,211,598 times
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With due respect to all, my original post stated clearly that I appreciated the sentiment in general. I only took issue with one person's extreme confidence that her prayers had gone above and beyond what modern medical science accomplished and repetition of that opinion.
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Old 06-29-2017, 07:10 AM
 
5,450 posts, read 2,294,635 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emotiioo View Post
With due respect to all, my original post stated clearly that I appreciated the sentiment in general. I only took issue with one person's extreme confidence that her prayers had gone above and beyond what modern medical science accomplished and repetition of that opinion.
I'm not speaking to your post. I'm referring to the posts that followed. You know, the usual rote, kneejerk responses.
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Old 06-29-2017, 07:35 AM
 
3,721 posts, read 3,918,901 times
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Originally Posted by MinivanDriver View Post
How do you know what that person is going to do? Aren't you making an assumption about that person without knowing any better?
Exactly!
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Old 06-29-2017, 12:22 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
56,026 posts, read 54,537,410 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangaia View Post
When I see a press conference with emotional appeals for prayers and pleas to God for the safe return of someone who has been abducted, I know that this case will likely end with the discovery of a beaten body.
Yes, unfortunately, we've seen that happen all too often to believe otherwise.

I pray, but I usually don't ask for specifics. Most of my prayers are asking for guidance on what to do. Sometimes they are angry prayers, as in "will ya please stop f**king with me?" Not nice, perhaps, but reality.

If I do pray for someone else, I don't tell them unless I know for certain that "I will say a prayer" is something they want to hear.

As for those people on TV desperately hoping for an outcome they will not likely see, I sometimes say a prayer that they will have the strength to face whatever comes.
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Old 06-29-2017, 12:25 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
56,026 posts, read 54,537,410 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John13 View Post
The same result as talking to a rock. I've seen both sides. Thinking back to when I used to believe prayers never did anything.

I can't remember if anyone ever told me they would pray for me. If someone did tell me that and assuming they meant well I may say "I appreciate your kindness but I'm not religious."
I couldn't bring myself to say "thank you."
I will NOT pray for you, John13, I promise!

But you should be aware that in addition to praying, I also talk to rocks.
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Old 06-29-2017, 12:29 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
56,026 posts, read 54,537,410 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MinivanDriver View Post
I guess the crowning irony of this thread is the number of people who get sanctimonious about what they perceive as other people's sanctimony. Not a lot of self-awareness here, I guess.

Virulent hostility to expressions of faith in this situation is a good deal worse than the original offense. While saying "I'll pray for you" is intended to provide comfort and support to someone facing trouble, taking a king-sized crap on that kind of statement because of whatever animus one has is petty and mean-spirited. Just no other way around it. I mean if someone said, "I'll be thinking about you," would you have the same reaction? Likely not.

And of your circle of friends and acquaintances, how many really come to your rescue with food and errands? A handful, typically, for there typically is not much that can be done. Bring a casserole? Sit with you? Pick up dry cleaning? Okay. So expecting someone who says "I'll pray for you" to transform into some kind of personal valet is not any different than expecting the same from someone who says "I'll be thinking of you." But because someone simply states as much in a way that taps into their core as a person, there are people who want to dredge up every neurosis and tee off on what religion did to them or didn't do for them.

Hey, if someone is just gratuitously blathering on about Jesus at work or whatever, it's perfectly appropriate to have that response. In a situation such as described, it's just not the time and place. You are not drawing some line in the sand against primitive superstition, no matter how much you want to dignify it. Instead, it is really nothing more than a lack of grace on your part, spurning someone who only wants to offer heartful sympathy and hope. If this is your reaction, it says a great deal more about you as a person than the person who is offering prayers. And one's faith or lack thereof has nothing to do with it. The only proper response in this situation is to say, "Thank you," and move on, not indulge in some weird intellectual oneupmanship.

Hey, "I'll pray for you" wouldn't be my response in this kind of situation. My faith doesn't believe in wearing my religion on my sleeve. We don't proselytize, for we believe that faith is best expressed through deeds, not words, by striving for things such as social justice and upholding the dignity and worth of every person. So we avoid those expressions.

But at the same time, their saying so is typically not a) all about them or b) a substitute for offering substantive help. It's stated as a way to offer moral support in a situation. I mean, in my particular faith community, if a member of our church faces issues, we have a community that rallies to their side with food, errands, and companionship in a way that is organized and specific to their needs. There is no ramming of Bible verses down throats but, instead, a quiet presence in that person's life when he or she needs it most.
Well expressed, Minivan Driver.
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Old 07-23-2017, 07:02 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
4,422 posts, read 4,290,930 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MinivanDriver View Post
I guess the crowning irony of this thread is the number of people who get sanctimonious about what they perceive as other people's sanctimony. Not a lot of self-awareness here, I guess.

Virulent hostility to expressions of faith in this situation is a good deal worse than the original offense. While saying "I'll pray for you" is intended to provide comfort and support to someone facing trouble, taking a king-sized crap on that kind of statement because of whatever animus one has is petty and mean-spirited. Just no other way around it. I mean if someone said, "I'll be thinking about you," would you have the same reaction? Likely not.

And of your circle of friends and acquaintances, how many really come to your rescue with food and errands? A handful, typically, for there typically is not much that can be done. Bring a casserole? Sit with you? Pick up dry cleaning? Okay. So expecting someone who says "I'll pray for you" to transform into some kind of personal valet is not any different than expecting the same from someone who says "I'll be thinking of you." But because someone simply states as much in a way that taps into their core as a person, there are people who want to dredge up every neurosis and tee off on what religion did to them or didn't do for them.

Hey, if someone is just gratuitously blathering on about Jesus at work or whatever, it's perfectly appropriate to have that response. In a situation such as described, it's just not the time and place. You are not drawing some line in the sand against primitive superstition, no matter how much you want to dignify it. Instead, it is really nothing more than a lack of grace on your part, spurning someone who only wants to offer heartful sympathy and hope. If this is your reaction, it says a great deal more about you as a person than the person who is offering prayers. And one's faith or lack thereof has nothing to do with it. The only proper response in this situation is to say, "Thank you," and move on, not indulge in some weird intellectual oneupmanship.

Hey, "I'll pray for you" wouldn't be my response in this kind of situation. My faith doesn't believe in wearing my religion on my sleeve. We don't proselytize, for we believe that faith is best expressed through deeds, not words, by striving for things such as social justice and upholding the dignity and worth of every person. So we avoid those expressions.

But at the same time, their saying so is typically not a) all about them or b) a substitute for offering substantive help. It's stated as a way to offer moral support in a situation. I mean, in my particular faith community, if a member of our church faces issues, we have a community that rallies to their side with food, errands, and companionship in a way that is organized and specific to their needs. There is no ramming of Bible verses down throats but, instead, a quiet presence in that person's life when he or she needs it most.
Very well said. You may have even changed my view on it, despite my personal faith being that of a mustard seed. You made great points for sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chiluvr1228 View Post
It's one thing for someone to say "I'll pray for you" and actually do it and quite another for those that say it as another way of saying "hope you feel better - I'll pray for you" when they have no intention of doing so.
I also agree with this.
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