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Thanks, everyone. You're confirming a lot of my general thoughts. I'm just feeling overwhelmed and concerned. To answer a few questions...
Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigCreek
How is her health in general? Does she see and hear well? Any history of falls? Her house could be adapted with grab bars, removal of throw rugs, upgrading to 100 watt bulbs and so on to make it easier and safer for her at little expense. If you visit her, change those light bulbs and get rid of any throw rugs, or put non-slip pads beneath them. Expect resistance from your grandmother, though.
She is in pretty good health considering her age. She has better vision than I do, and I'm only 29! She has no history of falls, though all the rugs were removed and grab bars added for my grandfather several years ago. They also added ramps around the house and lots of extra lights. Is upgrading the lightbulbs meant to keep the house brighter to avoid trips, or is there something more to it? I hadn't thought of lightbulbs!
Quote:
Originally Posted by arwenmark
I didn't see anywhere if the grandfather's will was mentioned? you said the uncle thought he was getting the house he is in. Who's name was that house in? Was it in the grandmothers name of both? There could be legal ramifications.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nov3
This is the accurate questions to have answered.
And yes contingent on state laws...The natural heirs may have certain rights and privileges.
I've not known of an eviction within two weeks of death. There is probate first.
The house was in both of their names, and the will gives everything to the surviving spouse. I saw the will several years ago when my grandfather first had health issues that could be catastrophic and my grandmother showed me where all the important documents and items were. My memory is fuzzy on specifics, but everything would go to the spouse who lived. When they both pass, my uncle was willed the house he lives in and my mom will get the house my grandmother lives in. The other kids/stepkids get percentages (and that's going to be a disaster as they're dramatically unequal) and the grandkids get a percentage equally. My grandmother has a lot of family heirlooms, collections, and jewelry that are specifically willed to either my mother, brother, uncle, or I.
Now, I don't know the legality of such things, but my assumption is that the house would only go to my uncle if it was still left after all was said and done. It is *very* well understood in my family that my mom gets my grandmother's house and my uncle gets the other house, and I really don't think anyone considered that either/or might not be there as my grandparents need to make those assets liquid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by karen_in_nh_2012
Honestly, for me the boldface statement -- 30 YEARS OF RENT-FREE LIVING -- says it all.
They deserve nothing else, family or not. Of course, I would have gotten rid of them years ago, but that's just me. No, I'm not mean or vindictive -- I just believe that you should not expect to be a freeloader throughout life.
I am puzzled as to why you feel bad for ADULTS who chose to spend money on frivolous things, while they lived RENT-FREE for 30 freakin' years? Honestly, I just don't get that at all.
So, I get this. I really do. I am baffled at how they could not have saved enough for at least a downpayment, if not a whole house, by now. While my uncle's heart attack definitely impacted their finances, it's not the full picture. The house seemed like partial payment for running the business, which wasn't all that lucrative as the shop stayed pretty "old school" and couldn't scale. I tried to help there too - built them a website and digital marketing presence for free/references for my freelance gigs - but they wouldn't independently learn new technology to keep the business competitive.
That said, losing their home and livelihood at the same time is reason to feel sorry for me. They have been told for years that they were getting the house and that they were fine living there as long as they maintained the property (and helped maintain my grandparents' house/yard and deal with snow removal), and worked in the shop. They *definitely* screwed up, but they also were led to believe a very different thing from reality.
My grandfather was adamant about no wanting a funeral, but I understand that even cremation is quite expensive. My understanding based on previous discussions was that everything was prepaid. I hadn't thought about losing SS benefits, and that certainly makes a difference. His hospice care was paid for by Medicare according to my grandmother. My grandmother is elderly, but is in fairly good health despite frequent medical appointments. She is adamantly against assisted living, though I suspect that will be the next big battle. I am concerned that she does not want to move into assisted living and sell the house she lives in now because she's expecting to leave the house to my mom. My parents have not put any money away into retirement in well over a decade and are relying on my grandmother - though they will claim up and down that it's not true. My grandmother seems aware that they are irresponsible moochers, but has not changed her habits or behavior regarding them.
In no way am I expecting anything of an inheritance. My big concern here is that my mother is manipulating the situation to best position herself for an inheritance. Unfortunately, I turn 30 next month and am still forced to live with roommates despite a middle management, middle class career due to high medical costs and even higher cost of living. I cannot, for my own mental health and financial future, continue to live in this region. I spent most of my 20s either fighting cancer or its physical leftovers, or fighting to get myself back on track financially after it was over. I admit, I am a little (ok, a lot) hurt that my grandmother has been sending her two grifter children money for years due to their irresponsibility, but I was left completely out in the cold when diagnosed with stage IV cancer 4 months into my first job out of college by the whole family. Would I be more inclined to upend my life to help if I had gotten any kind of support when I was sick? Maybe. At this stage, I can't hurt my own future to help people who have showed limited inclination to help me when I needed it most. That doesn't mean I absolve myself of responsibility to help, but I also am not prepared to take the place of all the help my uncle's family has given over the years. I can't, for instance, take a day off of work every week to take her to medical appointments.
Regarding helping my uncle, I'm not sure what I can do. I wrote to them (they're not taking my calls) to say that I'm sorry about what I have heard is happening, and offered to help them in any way I could: resume and cover letter writing, interview prep (I know from social media that my aunt is applying at daycares after 20+ years of running a home daycare), or whatever else. I can't help financially, and can't help if they won't talk to me.
My parent's offered to either move her to them (far away), or move in with her temporarily until they could find a house more suitable to having all three of them living there. She does not want to leave her house. Moving in with my uncle's family, who are culturally very different from her, is even less of a possibility. I spoke to her this morning and suggested having them pay rent and bringing in an accountant to make sure that she is getting what she is owed at the business. She refused, and said she just wanted to be done with it. This is apparently mounting, but I can't emphasize enough how out of character it is.
After reading this all I can say is let it go.
Move on with your life, these people are no longer your family in their eyes.
There is literally nothing you can do to change that.
I personally can't believe that you are siding with the non-paying uncle, and are of the opinion that your G.Mother is being vindictive.
Do you have any idea what 30 years worth of mortgage payments/or rent would have amounted to?
And, your Mom is the one that told you about your GMother selling the house.....so if she was being secretive I doubt she would have contacted you about that.
It sounds like your GMother should sell the house, and maybe even liquidate the business.
You have to realize at the age of "late 80's" nursing home or assisted living is in her very near future usually 4-5000 monthly for nursing home and because she has assets medicare will not pay....and before that she may need in home assistance, since none of you can be bothered, which will be a few thousand monthly.
So, I hope one of you is smart enough to help her, or call a senior services agency so your irresponsible family members don't commit elder financial abuse. Which some may say they have already been committing by the non payment. A helpful caring neighbor, or pastor or friend or anyone can make those calls too.
I sure hope one of you is looking out for your G.Mother.
Do we call him a "non-paying" uncle when he's never been asked for payment?
Again, I don't disagree: he and his wife are flaming idiots. They should have been saving what they would pay in rent for years. I don't know the specifics of their financial picture, but I also don't know that we can be angry about someone not paying rent when that never seemed to be part of the deal for 30 years. I am ABSOLUTELY not angry that my grandmother needs money. I am aghast that my grandparents could give such a false picture to people who live 5 minutes away and have been so integrated into their daily lives. It is out of character.
"Since none of you can be bothered." The people who she is kicking out of their home HAVE bothered, quite a bit, and that is a big source of my concern. As for me, I stayed overnight sleeping off and on on the floor while my grandfather was in hospice for weeks before he passed, working full time more than 2 hours away AND in grad school, so that my grandmother could get rest when he needed meds every hour. I help as much as I can, but I also am not in a position where I can be more present. I can't control what my abusive parents do to help support her, nor can I control that they are draining her money and perhaps guiding her decisions now. As I have said repeatedly, if she needs the money from the house, she ABSOLUTELY should sell it. I question the timing of 2 weeks after my grandfather's death with absolutely no prior discussion with my uncle, especially with winter upon us when I will be even more unable to get to her quickly. I can't even do my own snow removal due to my lung damage, much less hers! And there's no one else close by.
I have been trying to talk her into assisted living for years. She won't do it because she wants to leave an inheritance. My brother and I could literally care less - we want her safe and comfortable if we have to sell every last Hummel on Ebay to make it happen. But we also don't have a say.
Honestly, for me the boldface statement -- 30 YEARS OF RENT-FREE LIVING -- says it all.
They deserve nothing else, family or not. Of course, I would have gotten rid of them years ago, but that's just me. No, I'm not mean or vindictive -- I just believe that you should not expect to be a freeloader throughout life.
I am puzzled as to why you feel bad for ADULTS who chose to spend money on frivolous things, while they lived RENT-FREE for 30 freakin' years? Honestly, I just don't get that at all.
Because you, person I'm quoting, have a head as hard as I do. I was not raised in a big family, was just mom and dad and me. I fended in-part for myself from about 14-on, then school at 17, then on my own truly at 20. My dad loaned me money and gifted me a few grand here and there until I was about 30 and bought my first property. No money was ever "expected" by me, that was crystal-clear from the time I was twelve: be careful with money, no free lunches. Any one with thirty years of rent-free has been living with a sucker landlord. If I had, I'd have somewhere between $250 and 500K invested from that alone.
Many of the freeloaders in OP's post have no idea they are dunderheads who make "poor life choices." We all do, on-occasion. Difference is, most learn from them. Gifting dummies thousands of dollars reinforces dumb behavior, it does not discourage it. There is no clearer truism in life.
As for me, I'd have nothing to do with any of this. In fact I have nothing to do with extended family, they've been dead to me for literally decades. I'll track down one or two when it's time to pass on heirlooms, but other that that.... I personally "do not invite drama IN!".
I respect OP has another view, many families are tight. Or if not tight, many feel a sense of obligation to bail out losers. If I had brothers or sisters, or loser parents, I might get it. I don't, so I don't, and would leave town especially if I had lingering medical problems and/or lived in a high COL area and/or lived with roommates despite being in middle management.
That'd be the last they'd see of me for a couple years, I'd let the ruckus settle itself. Probably change my phone number along with address, which is btw very effective at derailing pests.
I'm thinking the bold above are important issues. Perhaps your grandmother has been upset about these matters and now has the ability to do something about them.
Maybe grandfather has been protecting these people and now grandma is in charge. And she's not having it any more.
Your grandma could be scared that there won't be money, in case she needs to go into a home. Or she could have demensia, no one knows.
IF these people have been embezziling from the company, they get NO sympathy from me. They are dang lucky no action is being against them. One steals from me and there is HELL to pay when I have documentation. Ask the theives who have tried it. Call me names, my response is you are a court proven thief, I'll take B*tch over a thief anyday as that is nothing but your low awareness level.
Try to stay neutral, I know its hard. That is your grandmothers home. 30 years of free rent, these people should have plenty saved to buy something, or maybe that is giving them too much credit. OK I see they haven't done that, not grandma's problem.
Do not put your life on hold for this.
Last edited by foundapeanut; 11-11-2017 at 07:08 AM..
OP replied:The house was in both of their names, and the will gives everything to the surviving spouse. I saw the will several years ago when my grandfather first had health issues that could be catastrophic and my grandmother showed me where all the important documents and items were. My memory is fuzzy on specifics, but everything would go to the spouse who lived. "
My response. This was your step grandfather,thus the need to clarify that his natural siblings or genetic relatives may (and often should) be advised of the probate of will. Even if it's willed to your grandmother,it can be challenged in court. I by no means am a lawyer here....I was though an executor of a will. And my oath required I follow the states process's. Your grandma might think it all magically transfers to her...but title of home and joint assets need to be retitled . That doesn't happen in two weeks.
As for your uncle...he has tenancy rights whether he paid a dime or not...your grandmother needs estate guidance thru a legal source.
I say this for you and others who may have a lesser grasp of process's and probate when real estate is involved.
Refer grandma to legal counsel. None here can go off of a fuzzy recollection from a few years back.
I sincerely think you are trying to be a concerned relative..and for that I do understand your quandary.
OP replied:The house was in both of their names, and the will gives everything to the surviving spouse. I saw the will several years ago when my grandfather first had health issues that could be catastrophic and my grandmother showed me where all the important documents and items were. My memory is fuzzy on specifics, but everything would go to the spouse who lived. "
My response. This was your step grandfather,thus the need to clarify that his natural siblings or genetic relatives may (and often should) be advised of the probate of will. Even if it's willed to your grandmother,it can be challenged in court. I by no means am a lawyer here....I was though an executor of a will. And my oath required I follow the states process's. Your grandma might think it all magically transfers to her...but title of home and joint assets need to be retitled . That doesn't happen in two weeks.
As for your uncle...he has tenancy rights whether he paid a dime or not...your grandmother needs estate guidance thru a legal source.
I say this for you and others who may have a lesser grasp of process's and probate when real estate is involved.
Refer grandma to legal counsel. None here can go off of a fuzzy recollection from a few years back.
I sincerely think you are trying to be a concerned relative..and for that I do understand your quandary.
We had the same situation. ONLY my dad put the house in joint ownership with his girlfriend who took care of him.
She stole several personal priceless items and made the trust officers job hell.
We asked about contesting home ownership, attorney said you would only be throwing good money after bad. He could NOT in good faith recommend this. Now each state is different. It was my father's intent she gets the house for taking care of him. That is a tough nut to overturn unless you can prove grandfather was forced to sign the document giving grandmother home.
Again OP - go without hesitation and live your life.
Location: Finally the house is done and we are in Port St. Lucie!
3,487 posts, read 3,336,915 times
Reputation: 9913
They are all adults. All of them are disfunctional. You worked hard to not be like all of them but your mother has found that button to push to get you back into the family drama.
Do. Not. Let. Them.
Again, they are all adults to make their own mistakes. Even grandma.
OP replied:The house was in both of their names, and the will gives everything to the surviving spouse. I saw the will several years ago when my grandfather first had health issues that could be catastrophic and my grandmother showed me where all the important documents and items were. My memory is fuzzy on specifics, but everything would go to the spouse who lived. "
My response. This was your step grandfather,thus the need to clarify that his natural siblings or genetic relatives may (and often should) be advised of the probate of will. Even if it's willed to your grandmother,it can be challenged in court. I by no means am a lawyer here....I was though an executor of a will. And my oath required I follow the states process's.
Your grandma might think it all magically transfers to her...but title of home and joint assets need to be retitled . That doesn't happen in two weeks. As for your uncle...he has tenancy rights whether he paid a dime or not...your grandmother needs estate guidance thru a legal source.
I say this for you and others who may have a lesser grasp of process's and probate when real estate is involved.
Refer grandma to legal counsel. None here can go off of a fuzzy recollection from a few years back.
I sincerely think you are trying to be a concerned relative..and for that I do understand your quandary.
I was thinking some of same things. It took my sister several months to straighten out/change the name on various titles, etc. after her husband passed away even though she was to inherit everything. It certainly did not happen within two weeks of his death.
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Call me names, my response is you are a court proven thief, I'll take B*tch over a thief anyday as that is nothing but your low awareness level. 
