Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Non-Romantic Relationships
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 04-12-2018, 01:03 PM
 
Location: New York
1,186 posts, read 961,354 times
Reputation: 2970

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by oh-eve View Post
How can everyone just drop by during work/school/activities - are the adults not working?
Your scenario sounds common for countries where mothers don't work full time or not at all.


In the US, women work full time usually, there is no one home during the week after school. If you would drop by, no one would be home before it is quite late.

That's correct. This is a traditional area; and while the mothers have a lot of activities/events they attend, they don't tend to work full-time. However, that doesn't really change my statement because in this particular culture, there's not such a thing as a 'set' visiting time. So when you drop in, sometimes it's overnight and visitors (regardless of gender) just leave in the morning and go straight to work/school/etc.

When we stay, usually several family members will also bring over clothes/etc and just stay in the house an socialize for a few days, especially when they live in neighboring cities. Or one sibling might stay at another sibling's house overnight rather than drive home, if it's a longer distance. Sometimes you'll book a van and everyone travels to another place for a impromptu weekend holiday at the beach or whatever.

Like I said, the whole arrangement is pretty fluid. Most social interactions are unscheduled.

This is just radically different from the US; neither in a good or a bad way, just different. I think it is interesting though to experience and the effect of this type of culture is that 'family time' and social interactions with friends tend to be the major day-to-day highlights whereas work obligations are merely seen as a means to an end. Here in the US, I can easily say that my work activities tend to take center stage and my family life often gets relegated to evenings/weekends or fit in 'around work. This isn't necessarily my preference, just the way the priorities aligned.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-12-2018, 04:56 PM
 
Location: Dfw
323 posts, read 220,645 times
Reputation: 382
Quote:
Originally Posted by hertfordshire View Post
Not everyone views spontaneity as a good thing. I don’t want anyone to “just stop by” when I’m not expecting them. And I prefer planning get together because I have a lot of things I’m trying to juggle. Not having things planned is too stressful.
Exactly what I was gonna say. I don't want anyone...ANYONE just stopping by. That's rude.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-12-2018, 07:24 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
67,652 posts, read 60,572,966 times
Reputation: 101051
OMG. You mean people might bring clothing, planning to stay overnight or for the weekend, and they don't even call ahead and plan it first?

That would go over like a lead balloon around here. For starters, my husband and I often have plans to socialize (sometimes elsewhere) on any given day. We also travel a lot. So errr, no - don't drop by unannounced with a plastic bag of clothing for the next day or a little overnight bag and expect to spend the night or weekend.

Now if you call first and we discuss this beforehand, your chances are actually very good. But call first because I may have to move some activities around (and often those activities are SOCIAL activities - I don't even work outside the home anymore).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-12-2018, 09:18 PM
 
Location: 53179
14,416 posts, read 22,427,310 times
Reputation: 14477
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyinCali View Post
This is not an American bashing thread. I love America. This is just a commentary on things I have noticed and I am curious to discuss.

I am originally from a developing nation. My wife was born in America but has roots in another developing nation. We often visit both places. The thing that always jumps out most at me is how different the human interactions are from America. And for the better.

Frankly, I think that the American social culture is terrible. Friendships appear to be pretty disposable. Social interactions seem to be regimented, with things needing to be scheduled weeks in advance. Once you are over 25, there seems to be no spontaneity left. Everything needs to be planned - drinks on Thursday with Bob. Dinner on Saturday with Jane and Ray. And the three shall never meet.

The chances of me texting somebody and them agreeing on a short notice to meet up are slim. They will always have something to do. I need to get on their schedule for next weekend.

Nobody drops by. Even your closest friends. Jamal doesn’t stop on the way back from work to chat about politics and have a beer. The visit has to be coordinated days ahead.

Even the fun is coordinated and scripted. We will go to Place A and do Y and X. After that we will go to Place B and do Z.

There is very little spontaneity and just being with. In our countries you constantly see people just being with - sitting on a bench in the park, sitting at a cafe, walking by the river-front. You see that in America but it is different.

It is hard to describe if you haven’t experienced it. The walk is purposeful. You will meet and walk along the river. You dont just organically end there after pointlessly meandering lost in conversation.

You belong to a jogging group. You go hiking. You plan to get wasted next weekend. You travel. The friendship is focused on activities versus just being with and enjoying each other’s company.

You do these things in our countries, too. But they are secondary. The come after being with. They are the cherry on top. Not the only things you do as friends.

In addition, it is amazing to me how disposable friendships are. Part of it is the mobility of Americans. I get that. In most countries people are not as mobile, but here we move states so easily.

But just look at other reasons why people stop hanging out
- they start dating somebody
- they get new friends
- they move to a suburb
- they have kids
- they join some social group

All of these are absurd to me. Just thinking to my friends in my country - they are still hanging out after 20 years. New girlfriends are welcomed. Kids sit in a stroller while parents are sitting in a cafe. Or play unsupervised at the near playground without a parent with outstretched arms by them every time they climb up a yard.

Friends mingle. There is no such thing as work friends, church friends, soccer friends. If you are fun, you are invited to all types of functions. Here people have completely separate groups of friends that literally might never meet. That’s insane to me. How can people who are close to you never meet?

Anyway, it is just some observations. I know they are anecdotal, but I feel pretty comfortable generalizing based on them. I am very good at reading people and I have spent a lot of time reading, researching and observing American society. I think that our social interactions culture is terrible.

Breaking into existing friends groups is almost impossible. Friendships are disposable. If you move after 40, your only chance of a meaningful relationship is joining a meetup with other “lonely losers” like yourself. Your coworker is unlikely you to invite you to a BBQ. And if they do, their friends are highly unlikely to ask for your number and stay in touch unless you literally bend over backwards over several months. So you join a meetup.

Just so strange.

I agree with you. But i think its a fairly new thing. Last 20 years maybe.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-12-2018, 09:21 PM
 
Location: Out in the Badlands
10,420 posts, read 10,801,219 times
Reputation: 7801
Maybe one should return to the developing nation if one does not like it here.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-13-2018, 12:25 PM
 
855 posts, read 621,515 times
Reputation: 1815
Quote:
Originally Posted by hertfordshire View Post
Not everyone views spontaneity as a good thing. I don’t want anyone to “just stop by” when I’m not expecting them.
Same here.

Part of it is that I thrive in solitude, and in my line of
work, I reach my saturation-point rather quickly as I'm
interacting with a pretty much unrelenting stream of
peeps.

-
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-13-2018, 10:03 PM
 
1,425 posts, read 1,382,291 times
Reputation: 2602
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyinCali View Post
This is not an American bashing thread. I love America. This is just a commentary on things I have noticed and I am curious to discuss.

I am originally from a developing nation. My wife was born in America but has roots in another developing nation. We often visit both places. The thing that always jumps out most at me is how different the human interactions are from America. And for the better.

Frankly, I think that the American social culture is terrible. Friendships appear to be pretty disposable. Social interactions seem to be regimented, with things needing to be scheduled weeks in advance. Once you are over 25, there seems to be no spontaneity left. Everything needs to be planned - drinks on Thursday with Bob. Dinner on Saturday with Jane and Ray. And the three shall never meet.

The chances of me texting somebody and them agreeing on a short notice to meet up are slim. They will always have something to do. I need to get on their schedule for next weekend.

Nobody drops by. Even your closest friends. Jamal doesn’t stop on the way back from work to chat about politics and have a beer. The visit has to be coordinated days ahead.

Even the fun is coordinated and scripted. We will go to Place A and do Y and X. After that we will go to Place B and do Z.

There is very little spontaneity and just being with. In our countries you constantly see people just being with - sitting on a bench in the park, sitting at a cafe, walking by the river-front. You see that in America but it is different.

It is hard to describe if you haven’t experienced it. The walk is purposeful. You will meet and walk along the river. You dont just organically end there after pointlessly meandering lost in conversation.

You belong to a jogging group. You go hiking. You plan to get wasted next weekend. You travel. The friendship is focused on activities versus just being with and enjoying each other’s company.

You do these things in our countries, too. But they are secondary. The come after being with. They are the cherry on top. Not the only things you do as friends.

In addition, it is amazing to me how disposable friendships are. Part of it is the mobility of Americans. I get that. In most countries people are not as mobile, but here we move states so easily.

But just look at other reasons why people stop hanging out
- they start dating somebody
- they get new friends
- they move to a suburb
- they have kids
- they join some social group

All of these are absurd to me. Just thinking to my friends in my country - they are still hanging out after 20 years. New girlfriends are welcomed. Kids sit in a stroller while parents are sitting in a cafe. Or play unsupervised at the near playground without a parent with outstretched arms by them every time they climb up a yard.

Friends mingle. There is no such thing as work friends, church friends, soccer friends. If you are fun, you are invited to all types of functions. Here people have completely separate groups of friends that literally might never meet. That’s insane to me. How can people who are close to you never meet?

Anyway, it is just some observations. I know they are anecdotal, but I feel pretty comfortable generalizing based on them. I am very good at reading people and I have spent a lot of time reading, researching and observing American society. I think that our social interactions culture is terrible.

Breaking into existing friends groups is almost impossible. Friendships are disposable. If you move after 40, your only chance of a meaningful relationship is joining a meetup with other “lonely losers” like yourself. Your coworker is unlikely you to invite you to a BBQ. And if they do, their friends are highly unlikely to ask for your number and stay in touch unless you literally bend over backwards over several months. So you join a meetup.

Just so strange.
In my 13 years here, I observed some long-term, real friendships. I formed none. Not that I worked hard on it and failed, so it's not a complain, just a fact. I just assumed I won't ever have this level of devotion in friendship I used to have. In my motherland, a title of a friend always had some strings attached like jumping out of your bed in the middle of the night and driving three hundred kilometers to help a friend who wrecked his car, with no complains. A friend has a bad breakup and is up to drinking and crying on your shoulder all night? Of course, that's what friends are for. Working tomorrow? Who cares? Call in sick, friendship is more important. To be fair, I have to mention that employer-employee relationships were never so inhuman in my motherland as they (often, but luckily now far from always) are here.

Yes, on average Americans seem not to like surprises unless obviously pleasant like a bag of donuts. A friend knocking at the door irritates people more than makes them happy. My doors, at my birth country, were always open for friends. I always viewed unexpected friends' visits as a great excuse from routine chores. And yes, I can cook, talk, and drink with a friend, and let him/her sit alone for 5 minutes while I reload my laundry. And, if my friend doesn't like my "home alone" looks, he'll call ahead next time .

Many of American-born Americans live with a dream to reach retirement and, finally, start living. Sadly, when it happens, the 3/4 (if not more) of life, and definitely its best portion, is far behind. No more youthful curiosity, flexibility, readiness for adventure (if ever), bad (worsened) health, financial struggle, worries, etc. - friendships are not easily formed at this point. Americans work too much. I mean, they just spend too much time at work, and, as many of them believe in a fairy tale of beautiful suburban life, they spend hours in commuting, then feel exhausted, don't want to go anywhere on the weekend, but still get exhausted if they have kids and kids' sports, so they are constantly pushing themselves into this rat wheel and feel tired, tired, and more tired.
They also don't trust their children - kids are not to be alone till age of 12 or even longer, so this also limit their free time. I was going to/from school alone from age 6. I lived in a safe neighborhood, though. Wait, but isn't suburbia supposed to be nice and safe and kids friendly? Actually no, nobody cares and not everybody knows the neighbors names or looks.

I think Americans, on average, have their values skewed to material side a bit too much, and waste a lot of themselves - mean time, effort, energy of their souls - in obtaining "stuff" (G. Carlin, I miss thou!). It enslaves people. I wish more people understood that life is passing by so quickly that it is much, much more wise to limit your consumption to the just above the level of bare necessities, and spend freed time and money on way more interesting and rewarding things.
I like this new trend I was reading about - young people abandoning the Great American Dream of having a big house, and living nomadic lives, moving from one place to another, renting, no burden of mortgages, no garages full of stuff plus sheds full of stuff, just couple of suitcases, all books, movies, and music online, all silverware - disposable plastic. But if further prevents people from forming lasting friendships. Maybe it is just a transgression to a completely new social structure, with little intact rural islands where same gossips are carried through centuries and generations?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-13-2018, 11:42 PM
 
Location: colorado springs, CO
9,512 posts, read 6,059,204 times
Reputation: 28830
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyinCali View Post
It is not about the number of friends, although the end result is that you have fewer. It is more about the interactions with the ones you do have
I think it sounds awesome. I can’t really fit into anyone’s narrative as a friend anymore; with what I have “on my plate” & all.

But possibly a casual environment, without expectations & choreography would work.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-17-2018, 03:40 PM
 
Location: California
1,424 posts, read 1,633,162 times
Reputation: 3144
Quote:
Originally Posted by BusyMeAK View Post
In my 13 years here, I observed some long-term, real friendships. I formed none. Not that I worked hard on it and failed, so it's not a complain, just a fact. I just assumed I won't ever have this level of devotion in friendship I used to have. In my motherland, a title of a friend always had some strings attached like jumping out of your bed in the middle of the night and driving three hundred kilometers to help a friend who wrecked his car, with no complains. A friend has a bad breakup and is up to drinking and crying on your shoulder all night? Of course, that's what friends are for. Working tomorrow? Who cares? Call in sick, friendship is more important. To be fair, I have to mention that employer-employee relationships were never so inhuman in my motherland as they (often, but luckily now far from always) are here.

Yes, on average Americans seem not to like surprises unless obviously pleasant like a bag of donuts. A friend knocking at the door irritates people more than makes them happy. My doors, at my birth country, were always open for friends. I always viewed unexpected friends' visits as a great excuse from routine chores. And yes, I can cook, talk, and drink with a friend, and let him/her sit alone for 5 minutes while I reload my laundry. And, if my friend doesn't like my "home alone" looks, he'll call ahead next time .

Many of American-born Americans live with a dream to reach retirement and, finally, start living. Sadly, when it happens, the 3/4 (if not more) of life, and definitely its best portion, is far behind. No more youthful curiosity, flexibility, readiness for adventure (if ever), bad (worsened) health, financial struggle, worries, etc. - friendships are not easily formed at this point. Americans work too much. I mean, they just spend too much time at work, and, as many of them believe in a fairy tale of beautiful suburban life, they spend hours in commuting, then feel exhausted, don't want to go anywhere on the weekend, but still get exhausted if they have kids and kids' sports, so they are constantly pushing themselves into this rat wheel and feel tired, tired, and more tired.
They also don't trust their children - kids are not to be alone till age of 12 or even longer, so this also limit their free time. I was going to/from school alone from age 6. I lived in a safe neighborhood, though. Wait, but isn't suburbia supposed to be nice and safe and kids friendly? Actually no, nobody cares and not everybody knows the neighbors names or looks.

I think Americans, on average, have their values skewed to material side a bit too much, and waste a lot of themselves - mean time, effort, energy of their souls - in obtaining "stuff" (G. Carlin, I miss thou!). It enslaves people. I wish more people understood that life is passing by so quickly that it is much, much more wise to limit your consumption to the just above the level of bare necessities, and spend freed time and money on way more interesting and rewarding things.
I like this new trend I was reading about - young people abandoning the Great American Dream of having a big house, and living nomadic lives, moving from one place to another, renting, no burden of mortgages, no garages full of stuff plus sheds full of stuff, just couple of suitcases, all books, movies, and music online, all silverware - disposable plastic. But if further prevents people from forming lasting friendships. Maybe it is just a transgression to a completely new social structure, with little intact rural islands where same gossips are carried through centuries and generations?
That's a good post. I like the drive 300 km example. I remember when our car broke once in the pre cell-phone era. My aunt and I hitched back, while my dad stayed with the car. Then my aunt called her mechanic friend, who then went and fixed the car at 11 pm under a flashlight. Then he got home and went to work the following day.

The assumption that people in developing countries don't work is not an accurate one. All of my friends in my native country are very well educated who work for western companies. Very few people can afford to lounge around and drink coffee.

People in America tend to overestimate their importance. Very few people work solid 9-5. You take lunch breaks, you chat around the cooler, you browse the internet, you do your online shopping etc. But if you are not "doing work" you feel guilty. If you are not driving your kid to 80 activities, you seem like a lazy parent.

I disagree with you about the nomadic culture. I think it is pretty stupid. It is another example of extremes. My wife was showing me this documentary on Netflix about minimalism. All the interviewed people were like "all I did was work work and accumulated things. Now I have only a backpack and I am so happy." I told her they just replaced one extreme with another. There is no moderation. You either have 10 TVs or you live in a shipping container, sorry tiny home, and NOTHING IN BETWEEN! I think life is about moderation. Anything that becomes an obsession is likely to lead to extreme behavior.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-17-2018, 03:48 PM
 
Location: California
1,424 posts, read 1,633,162 times
Reputation: 3144
Quote:
Originally Posted by a little bird View Post
I read this entire thread as I find the sociology of it fascinating. I was waiting to see if someone echoed my thoughts and some words from GusLevy below come close.

OP, I've spent time in a country with a culture very much like what you describe. There's a beautiful more relaxed air, time goes slower and people naturally congregate on porches and cafes and think nothing of dropping in on each other.

Because a large amount of them are unemployed or underemployed. That is the reality of it. Families are more tightly knit and young people don't move out of their parent's home as many times there is maybe one or two people working and supporting a household of five or ten.

So yes, it has an idyllic air to it....all this free time....but one of the darker sides is sometimes loved ones go without basic medical equipment (like a wheelchair) so they're confined to a bed for the rest of their life...or they go without necessary medicine.

So yes, American social life sucks...but it's just the nature of culture with the majority being employed full time.
The assumption that people in developing countries don't work is not an accurate one. All of my friends in my native country are very well educated who work for western companies. Very few people can afford to lounge around and drink coffee. It is not like unemployment rate is 40%. It is usually high-single digits at most. In the big cities, most people are employed. It is in villages and small provincial towns where the unemployment is an issue.

People in America tend to overestimate their importance. Very few people work solid 9-5. You take lunch breaks, you chat around the cooler, you browse the internet, you do your online shopping etc. But if you are not "doing work" you feel guilty. If you are not driving your kid to 80 activities, you seem like a lazy parent. If you bring your kid to a restaurant at 8 pm (not a crying toddler, mind you) you look irresponsible. It is all about dumb perception.

I used to do the same thing early in my career. My co-workers would tell me how they are "crushed" and I used to feel guilty, because I always had so much free time to mess around. I realized I just worked a lot more efficiently than them. Here I am 10 years later, with multiple promotions, behind my back and yet I have time to type this post.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Non-Romantic Relationships

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:37 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top