Why is NOT wanting kids looked at as "different"? (grandma, wife)

[Sand&Salt]

Originally Posted by Irishtom29

Well, it <is> different. And different things are looked at as...different. Imagine that.

I don't think it's even that "different". No kids here, and no one questions it. Comments I've gotten are "Good for you, to know your own mind that well" and similar. Never had anyone criticize it.

[BlueLuce]

Originally Posted by cremebrulee

I'm going to state a fact...most, not all, but most of the illegals entering into the U.S. are below average Scholoastically, which means, the U.S. will turn out a below average society, in years to come....I agree with you, we can't afford more children, however, our colleges also need an intellectual overhaul. They need to get started on throwing out those mandatory classes that add nothing, to the end result of the degree.

Mandatory courses are usually to provide a foundation of knowledge before moving on to more complex topics. Unfortunately, business has become too closely tied to education and is attempting to turn college into a a place focused more on churning out graduates to be automatons in the corporate workforce rather than independent thinkers.

The problem is that many students who would've normally been routed to trade/ vocational schools, went to college. Some people are better with different types of tasks (handy and can put things together vs. likes to analyze numbers and produce reports), very few are good at both. Trade schools have a valuable purpose and I think their resurgence is helpful to the workforce and economy. Some high schools have programs where students can go straight to becoming an EMT or a mechanic at a vocational school instead of going to college. However, that is one path. A college degree is another path. It is not meant to be where you only learn the specific topic listed on the degree. You are supposed to gain a more-informed view of multiple topics and think of how they can be applied in a variety of spaces. It is supposed to be a time to explore different avenues and develop a passion in a particular area.

Originally Posted by cremebrulee

We need to have college professors who care more about teaching than they do about turning all college students into dems.

I couldn't agree with you more on every point...

College profs really don't care to turn college students into Dems. That is a false narrative meant to demonize colleges and those who work there. Most college profs support open discussion, it is other students that create the hostility that you see on the news. Younger generations seem to be less tolerant of differing views, opting to end discourse rather than use knowledge and intellect to highlight the faulty logic in their counterparts' ideas. Sure there might be a few college profs that have extreme views and aim to "enlighten" others with their views. A majority of college profs want students to think from multiple perspectives, enjoy learning, apply what they learned elsewhere, and become life-long learners.

Originally Posted by newtovenice

If you think your choice is just another choice, why do you think they are envious of you?

PS. They aren't. Most parents would give their lives for their children. That's how deep the love goes. Would give up your life for whatever hobby you have? Methinks no.

Many parents, love their children dearly, but miss their child-free life. Having time to do whatever they wanted to do, putting themselves first. They would never give up their children for anything in the world. But let's not kid ourselves, children can be exhausting all the way from birth to age 18 (assuming they leave your house). It doesn't mean they are a bad parent because they miss their long-term "Me" time and they might be a little envious. The same way those who are single with no kids (but who actually want marriage and kids) may be a little envious of those who are married and/or married with kids. The grass is always greener...

Originally Posted by MechaMan

Fixed.

We have a problem in America. 50% of marriages end in divorce and 40% of households are headed by a single mother. We do not have the proper social constructs in place to welcome healthy balanced productive adults into this society. Why do you think the "Make America Great Again" slogan came up. It is referring to the "golden age" where we still had problems but they were manageable. Now it's out of control and there is no structure. This society is a joke!

The problems might have been manageable for some; unbearable, extremely problematic, and deadly for others.

Originally Posted by MechaMan

This is with America's birth rate being low and supplemented with immigration, mostly working adults. So imagine the chaos that will happen if we increase the birth rate? We can ingest more immigrants because they add immediate economic value. However, as a nation we can barely properly educate, train and employ the existing youth there is no way we can handle more burden than this.

Whenever they talk about needing to increase the birth rate, it is typically among the highly educated that they are concerned with. Whereas a majority of women had kids in their early mid 20s, now many women are waiting til 30 or later. If they have fertility issues, they may have none or just one child. This is what they are concerned with.

Originally Posted by MechaMan

We are telling kids to get educated meanwhile many Millennial college grads in their 30's are still underemployed and only 30% have a Bachelor's or above. Imagine when 50% have a degree. We can't even support jobs for the existing 30%. This society can't afford children right now. Ironically we need the migrant labor now more than ever. Because we don't have to pay for their costs as children yet they benefit us by paying taxes as adults!

Let's not forget that business is not very forgiving. Many millenials graduated during the recession and took low-wage jobs to make ends meet. They probably racked up debt and interest on any student loans that were taken. Once the recession was over, many employers didn't want to hire those workers. They didn't want to hire unemployed people. They opted for the new college grads instead. Thus, some millennial got stuck in low-wage jobs, with very few options to get out of that rut.

[AK-Cathy]

I'm 60, female, long time married and child free by choice. It's an unusual choice for people in my age group/demographic. I've had some conversation about it over the years, usually when someone inquires if I have children but I rarely bring the subject up myself. I have a "spiel" answer that covers the gist without getting into the complexities of the matter.

Some people feel sorry for me, some judge, some express envy but none of it matters as I am certain that we've made the right choice for ourselves.

[otterhere]

This post suffers from "misnomer syndrome." The majority of people have children, so obviously not having children is regarded as "different" because it IS "different" from the norm. More precisely, why is it suspect or looked down upon?

[elnrgby]

@MechaMan - re problem with needing immigrant workforce yet not having resources to support impoverished immigrants and educate their children, I am aware of an option (btw, I am a 58 year old child-free legal immigrant professional woman). A mechanism has been in place in the US for many decades to secure lower-level medical services while limiting the number of fully trained physicians by allowing foreign medical school graduates to come to the US for training, but training only, on a J-1 visa. The holder of that visa has to go back to the country of origin and live there for 2 full years before being able to even visit the US again in any capacity. It secures a cheap junior physician workforce for routine tasks (which these physicians perform while in training), while protecting the jobs of fully trained US physicians by keeping the number of fully trained specialists fairly low. Some of the foreign physicians do end up staying in the US after training (mostly if they accept to work in the geographic areas of the US which are unattractive to the US-born physicians, where the needy hospitals sponsor waivers of J-1 visa home return requirement), but the great majority still go back to their home countries.

If a better system existed in the US of such temporary visas (with the requirement of return to the home country) for LOW LEVEL JOBS such as these presently performed by the illegals, I think it would solve many problems for the US, namely:
(1) the foreign labor supply would match the US demand
(2) low-skilled labor prefers to go home anyway after they make some money in a foreign country because (a) that money typically goes much longer way in their home country than in the US, and (b) people naturally prefer to live at home rather than abroad unless they are fleeing political instability and danger to their life (ie, the true political refugees)
(3) it is easier to keep an eye on legal, registered visa holders than on illegals, thus preventing importation of foreign criminals
(4) the need to support impoverished foreigners and their children, from already maximally strained social security/welfare resources, would diminish or disappear

The way in which my post is related to the subject of not having children is the following: these immigration measures would enable maintenance of a civilized low birth rate in the US while also maintaining the size of the necessary labor force in the US. Western Europe had been doing this for a very long time rather successfully, while the migrations from Eastern Europe, Middle East, North Africa and the British Commonwealth were overwhelmingly economic migrations (economic migrants did not cause overwhelming problems until Europe started accepting large waves of political refugees, whose numbers were liberally infiltrated with criminals and potential terrorists, as Western Europe hasn't had any good measures in place to screen these out - which is now changing). Frankly, this is a fairly obvious solution to the US immigration problems, and I am not sure why nobody has thought of implementing it already, particularly because the system has already been in place for many decades for foreign physicians.

[roddma]

^Little late. but yes yes and yes to the above post. Things like education and health are necessary as nearly all go to doctors or hospitals at some point and all of us go to schools.The thing is nobody gets rewarded for keeping it in their pants so they don't have a dozen starving kids that need government assistance.

I cringe at all these reality shows with big families because it isn't real. I recall the "Kids by the Dozen" special where the dad of like 16 boasted about getting donation boxes on the porch. Two other families on other shows said the same and one said they didn't have health insurance for half the kids and ER is good health care. They fail to see they cause the system to be more expensive. Those types just become parents for the sake of it as said with not thoughts to the well being of the next child..

[MisterWright]

Just tell me where to mail the check.

[Mightyqueen801]

Originally Posted by otterhere

This post suffers from "misnomer syndrome." The majority of people have children, so obviously not having children is regarded as "different" because it IS "different" from the norm. More precisely, why is it suspect or looked down upon?

Good job. Often people don't take the time to choose their words more precisely when creating thread titles, I've noticed.

[Bayarea4]

People with children find it hard to understand why others choose not to be parents. My stepmother, for example. She had three children by the time she was 24, and she could never seem to accept that I didn't want any. Every time I saw her, at some point in the conversation she would look at me with a curious expression on her face and ask, "So, is it true that you never wanted to have children?" As if that made me some sort of circus freak. I would always smile and simply say, "Yes." Then I'd change the subject.

I tactfully refrained from mentioning one of the big reasons: I spent much of my late childhood and teen years as a built-in (unpaid) babysitter for her three kids while she and my Dad worked. These years of involuntary servitude made me realize how much work it was and that I didn't feel comfortable around kids. I am a quiet, introverted bookworm type, and the noise, fighting and constant intrusions didn't agree with me at all. This led to my later decision to not have children.

I'm 70 now, and I know I missed out on a lot by not having children, but I also know that in choosing The Road Not Taken, I did the right thing for myself. So perhaps my stepmother did me a favor after all.

[Whiskey-Pete]

Originally Posted by papafox

I'm a guy in my mid-late 30's, and I have absolutely NO desire what so ever to have kids. I never have.

When I see how much less free time my friends with kids have and how much more busy they are, this just absolutely reinforces my desire to never want kids.

What I don't understand is when I mention to them that I have no desire for kids (or even other childless people who are younger) they look at me funny, and often say "Oh.....why not" as if to think that I'm the odd one out.

I really don't understand how not wanting the burden of kids, not to mention the tremendous financial cost of raising them, should be looked at as "unusual".

Isn't that the equivalent of being looked at funny for going to trade school to be a plumber right after high school, instead of a 4 year college? I mean one isn't better than the other, they are just different paths.

Same with wanting vs not wanting kids, right??

I guess I'm at a loss to understand why others think I'm "unusual" in that regard. There are plenty of things I want to do with my life (become an airline pilot) that is totally in my blood, that others have no desire to do. It makes perfect sense that not everyone wants to fly jets for a living, even though I can't picture myself doing anything else for a career.

So why can't these parents see past their own situation and understand why someone their same age would not want kids, the same way I can understand why the next guy has no desire to pursue a career thats in my blood??

Is it largely because they secretly are envious and resentful that I'm free and can do whatever I want, whenever, wherever, and have an order of magnitude more freedom they they do?

I like kids but my wife and i didnt want to have kids . For many years as other family members and friends had kids we were always asked......When are you guys gonna have kids? As if it's illegal to not have them ffs. it is now close to 20 years later and those people are now crying the blues because they are emptying their bank accounts to send their kids off to college , buying them cars. Car insurance rates doubling and so on. meanwhile, my wife and i are talking about where we will be taking our next vacation
Anyway, do what you feel is best for you. Dont have kids just because everyone else is telling you that you have to . They just want you to share their misery LOL.