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I agree, pretty much. That's why I posted on another concurrent thread, that the first 6 years are crucial. It's essential to create a strong bond with the infant and toddler. it used to be common NOT to do that, though; doctors used to tell parents to let the baby cry itself to sleep, and to keep it in a room as far from parents as possible, so the parents could get their sleep. This didn't work, on a lot of levels.
Very true. I was one of those babies - Dr. Spock told parents to not feed for FOUR hours . . . most breast fed babies want to nurse every two hours - and breast-feeding was also frowned upon.
When I had my kids, it was not much better - infants were supposed to be in playpens or infant seats - people didn't just carry their babies around skin-to-skin, as they do now. They whisked the baby away at birth, so no initial bonding took place. And all of that has an impact.
I've done the best I can possibly do. I try to live with integrity. I make amends when I am aware of unskilled words or deeds. They do not. I have never received an apology for anything, and there have been some very bad things that have been done.
I do sleep well, thank you.
I just "miss" the family I "thought" I had. I guess I was in denial. THAT is definitely one of my "faults" (don't know how to fix it because you don't know when you are in denial, so . . . )
Some years my sisters and I have issues with each other. Many of our issues can be traced back to the way we were raised. I would never apologize to my mother for the way she set us against each other and made us go after one another.
It doesn't much matter because I don't celebrate holidays with my extended family anymore. My health just can't take it anymore.
My brothers were twins and were as close as could be. Then they had a falling out with each other when they were about 18 and really haven't been close since. It doesn't help that one is on one coast of the country and the other is on the other coast.
Recently one of the brothers seems to be reaching out to the other, which is a good thing. They're 59 now.
Neither of them will talk to me, though. One brother and his wife, and also my other brother, think I'm a freeloader on my mom and a freeloader in general. This has all happened since 2008 when I lost my job and a place to live and ended up on food stamps and subsidized housing, never mind that I previously worked 35 years supporting myself with no help from my parents or anyone else.
My mom kind of takes the middle road. She'll tell me what each of them are doing sometimes, but she doesn't talk trash about them and so I assume she does the same if she talks about me to them. I also know she gets along fantastically with one brother's wife (the other isn't married) and my SIL has done many things for my mom. Under no condition will I try to break up this relationship. My mom still goes back there to visit once a year and spends about a month to six weeks with them. I know this is something she really likes to do.
I've told my mom that I am always willing to talk to my brothers and be friends with them, but it's their turn now to move forward. Like with my dad, I spent a lot of time trying to make the first effort and basically got slapped in the face for it, so I feel I've done what I can and now it's up to them.
If they want to have a relationship with their sister, I'm here. But as I told my mom (and I think she's passed on to them), I won't be disrespected or called names or told what a failure I am. This will be a two-sided relationship based on respect and if they can't do that, they may as well never contact me.
I'm not going to confront my mom with all the things that she and my dad did to screw us kids over when we were growing up. She's 88 and deserves her peace now and what good would it do anyway? It might help me with my anger, but I can deal with my anger instead of taking it out on an old woman. So I hold it in, even when she still occasionally says something that bothers me. She's not going to change at this late date, although I will point out when she says something really hurtful. I know that's just how she is and while I'll say something about what she says, I won't be confrontational about it.
But my brothers don't get the same pass. They're my brothers, not my parents, and while I won't be confrontational with them either, if they don't want to give me the respect I'm due, then I don't need to talk to them. Respecting me is the cost of communicating with me and if they don't like that cost, then it's no skin off my nose to not talk to them. I'm not going to be a verbal punching bag so they can feel good about not being at odds with their sister. The olive branch is there. All they have to do is pick it up, but they aren't entitled to hit me with it.
Grown adults can look back on their lives and see things they are disappointed about, or where their parents shortcomings were. I did it myself. I thought I had a terrible childhood because I was focusing on particular incidents where I felt abused.
Then, one day, I went over each decade, and was able to reframe my childhood. Now I see how privileged I was - doesn't mean the disappointing or abusive things did not happen, but now I am truly grateful for how many blessings were bestowed on me.
As just one example of how I changed my perspective, early on - I blamed my parents for not teaching me anything or giving me guidance.
I still "wish" I would have had some guidance, but I was able to figure stuff out over time - now I absolutely appreciate being what I call a "free-range kid." I was BENIGNGLY neglected - which caused me to become independent - get myself to school, figure out how to do stuff - it fostered good survival skills AND my childhood as I see it now was mostly amazing! I had no parents breathing down my neck - I was allowed to roam free from dawn till dusk, with no questions asked. I honestly would have hated having those helicopter parents who won't let their kids out of their sight these days! I loved the freedom I had to explore my town and to visit my friends, and do just about anything I wanted. I am SO grateful for my experience!
My kids had their own challenges and I am sure plenty of "beefs," but they got stability, a great neighborhood, plenty of fun, great holidays and birthdays, and a close, loving family (from my perspective - I think they would agree about the fun parts).
So the people who have responded who still hold grudges about their parents short-comings, unless you were beaten and starved, you might want to give your parents another look and see if there is anything you can appreciate about them.
My brothers were twins and were as close as could be. Then they had a falling out with each other when they were about 18 and really haven't been close since. It doesn't help that one is on one coast of the country and the other is on the other coast.
Recently one of the brothers seems to be reaching out to the other, which is a good thing. They're 59 now.
Neither of them will talk to me, though. One brother and his wife, and also my other brother, think I'm a freeloader on my mom and a freeloader in general. This has all happened since 2008 when I lost my job and a place to live and ended up on food stamps and subsidized housing, never mind that I previously worked 35 years supporting myself with no help from my parents or anyone else.
My mom kind of takes the middle road. She'll tell me what each of them are doing sometimes, but she doesn't talk trash about them and so I assume she does the same if she talks about me to them. I also know she gets along fantastically with one brother's wife (the other isn't married) and my SIL has done many things for my mom. Under no condition will I try to break up this relationship. My mom still goes back there to visit once a year and spends about a month to six weeks with them. I know this is something she really likes to do.
I've told my mom that I am always willing to talk to my brothers and be friends with them, but it's their turn now to move forward. Like with my dad, I spent a lot of time trying to make the first effort and basically got slapped in the face for it, so I feel I've done what I can and now it's up to them.
If they want to have a relationship with their sister, I'm here. But as I told my mom (and I think she's passed on to them), I won't be disrespected or called names or told what a failure I am. This will be a two-sided relationship based on respect and if they can't do that, they may as well never contact me.
I'm not going to confront my mom with all the things that she and my dad did to screw us kids over when we were growing up. She's 88 and deserves her peace now and what good would it do anyway? It might help me with my anger, but I can deal with my anger instead of taking it out on an old woman. So I hold it in, even when she still occasionally says something that bothers me. She's not going to change at this late date, although I will point out when she says something really hurtful. I know that's just how she is and while I'll say something about what she says, I won't be confrontational about it.
But my brothers don't get the same pass. They're my brothers, not my parents, and while I won't be confrontational with them either, if they don't want to give me the respect I'm due, then I don't need to talk to them. Respecting me is the cost of communicating with me and if they don't like that cost, then it's no skin off my nose to not talk to them. I'm not going to be a verbal punching bag so they can feel good about not being at odds with their sister. The olive branch is there. All they have to do is pick it up, but they aren't entitled to hit me with it.
It is obvious you have done a lot of self-reflection and have so much insight into yourself and your mother and siblings. It sounds like you have taken a "fair" stand with your siblings - it makes sense and you are very kind to spare your mom your anger about her failings.
What do you do, as parents, when some of your grown children don't get along? There is obviously nothing you CAN do (from what I have read) to solve the problem - which usually stems from some deep-seated sibling rivalry. The causes of the problem can also be unconscious - so one or both of the parties might have animosity and not really have examined the core of it.
In my family, there are two daughters who were very close as children. There were circumstances that arose that caused friction. I remember when they were 18 and were screaming at each other at Christmas. I could not fathom that anyone would have a fit and try to ruin a holiday for others, but they seemed to have no qualms about it. Neither one of them ever apologized for it, and in fact, they did it again at another Christmas years later. I found this behavior extremely traumatic, as I cannot handle any displays of aggression or incivility and I also regard holidays (holy days) as sacred, due to my upbringing.
Still - they were very, very close as children, as teens, and as young adults. They had lots and lots of fun together - then something "happened" in the family that caused a lot of trauma to the entire family - too personal to discuss details - involved another person and these two . . .
Fast-forward to today. They have been "estranged" for around five years. There were a couple of family occasions this summer where they both attended. One of them would not take a family picture with the other and now, it doesn't appear they will both be attending upcoming holidays.
My take is that I think they both "owe" each other apologies for certain things that happened. I have not given my opinion to anyone and I doubt they would be inspired to do anything if I said anything anyway.
The issue is MY feelings. I cannot have parties in my home like I used to (I tried to have one and one of the people had a fit saying I was crazy under the circumstances to even THINK of it). And I am SAD that holidays won't include both of them. I hate knowing there are hard feelings, envy, resentment.
Any parents going through this and if so, any advice?
For fighting adult siblings: Do you care at all what your parents think of your estrangement and how it affects the family, or is it just "tough beans?"
They don't "owe" each other anything. Perhaps they simply do not like one another and do not want to be a part of each other's lives.
My sister and I never got along. He was always asking me to "be the big one" and to make amends after a particular argument. Why me? Because I was the "eldest and the more sensible".
That eldest thing gets tired when you are both in your 40s and no longer think of her as your "baby sister".
I suggested that my father just invite one of us and the rest to one holiday and the other to the next one. Or invite us both. There were plenty of other people to talk to. I had no problems avoiding her. He had a 3500 sq ft house, and holiday meals were served buffet style.
If he wanted a family portrait I could just say "hi" and sit for the picture. He never asked for that.
Just see them separately. You can not control your adult kids. Also, do not mediate or get involved. Love them both. They love you. But, perhaps they don't like each other.
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