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Old 02-04-2019, 12:57 PM
 
Location: Living on the Coast in Oxnard CA
15,681 posts, read 26,629,497 times
Reputation: 20256

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. In-Between View Post
Why should she do that? She's already paid for the bed and the sofa. They belong to her now, that's a done deal.

The closet? That one, I'd put out on the curb a half mile away and text her the address to come and get it.
The "friend" changed the parameters of the deal. The OP may have paid for the items but the price has been changed. "Friend" would need to pay back the OP for what she has into the deal and come and get the items. If "Friend" can not retrieve items the OP can assume that "Friend" has abandoned the items and does not want them anymore. The OP can choose to discard or keep the items if they are not picked up.
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Old 02-04-2019, 11:40 PM
 
Location: Caverns measureless to man...
7,242 posts, read 4,625,720 times
Reputation: 16316
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOON2BNSURPRISE View Post
The "friend" changed the parameters of the deal. The OP may have paid for the items but the price has been changed. "Friend" would need to pay back the OP for what she has into the deal and come and get the items. If "Friend" can not retrieve items the OP can assume that "Friend" has abandoned the items and does not want them anymore. The OP can choose to discard or keep the items if they are not picked up.
In what world does a seller have the right to change the terms of a deal after accepting payment? The seller quoted a price, the buyer agreed and paid the agreed upon sum, and the seller accepted the agreed upon sum as payment in full. That's it. It's over. That's as done as a deal can get. The OP now owns the items that she paid for.

If you buy a house, and a week after you close and move in the seller calls you up and says, "Hey, listen, we've been talking it over, and we've decided we didn't charge you enough for the place. We'd appreciate it if you'd send us a check for another 20 grand. K? How soon can we expect that?", are you going to write a check - or are you going to laugh hysterically and hang up the phone? I can tell you which one I'm going with, and it sure wouldn't involve writing a check.

Same deal here. The OP doesn't have to do a thing at this point. She bought the items, and spent another $170 having the items moved. Considering what an obnoxious pain in the ass the seller has been, if I were the OP, all I'd do is stick the closet in a parking lot a half mile away, text the address to the seller, and then let her do whatever.
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Old 02-05-2019, 08:34 AM
 
800 posts, read 434,683 times
Reputation: 734
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. In-Between View Post
In what world does a seller have the right to change the terms of a deal after accepting payment? The seller quoted a price, the buyer agreed and paid the agreed upon sum, and the seller accepted the agreed upon sum as payment in full. That's it. It's over. That's as done as a deal can get. The OP now owns the items that she paid for.

If you buy a house, and a week after you close and move in the seller calls you up and says, "Hey, listen, we've been talking it over, and we've decided we didn't charge you enough for the place. We'd appreciate it if you'd send us a check for another 20 grand. K? How soon can we expect that?", are you going to write a check - or are you going to laugh hysterically and hang up the phone? I can tell you which one I'm going with, and it sure wouldn't involve writing a check.

Same deal here. The OP doesn't have to do a thing at this point. She bought the items, and spent another $170 having the items moved. Considering what an obnoxious pain in the ass the seller has been, if I were the OP, all I'd do is stick the closet in a parking lot a half mile away, text the address to the seller, and then let her do whatever.
Your comment is not accurate; this doesn't happen in this case unfortunately.

First: BOTH the seller & buyer, due to their friendship, they didn't use the formal procedures to sell/buy items and that's what made whole this problem, there is no bill of sale to apply the same known criteria.

Second: The seller changed her opinion DURING the sale process, NOT AFTER that. Op mentioned that when she had moved the items to her new apartment, the seller CHANGED her opinion about the price; then the case developed about the whole sale process and her friend no more want to sell; Although, the Op CONTINUED and sent her money that they were agreed upon it before their conflicting (Like to force someone to sell because you are upset about changing the price and losing 170$ that will produce due to the sale cancel.)
It seems that she sent the money through the bank. IF someone sent money to your account by bank, it will enter to your account normally but it doesn't mean that you accepted it and satisfied about it. In this story, it's obvious that the seller expressed her resentment and rejection by resending to the buyer that, either pay the price she wanted or get her items back. (it means doesn't want to sell because she doesn't agree about the money that buyer sent).
Look, I'm not saying to send her money she wanted, it will be stupidity too. What I see what I mentioned in my first post.

Third: If you want to buy a house, don't say that you will buy it in the same way Op & her friend used
No one buys a house depending on facebook discussion without having an OFFICIAL bill of sale that proves that the property transferred from this person to this person and both accepted it with their signatures. I've never heard of this honestly, but I don't know about laws also.



Hope the problem has been solved by now
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Old 02-05-2019, 01:06 PM
 
Location: Living on the Coast in Oxnard CA
15,681 posts, read 26,629,497 times
Reputation: 20256
Let me explain my post.

The seller is a friend of some kind. The buyer and seller know each other any way.

The Buyer wants the items that the seller is selling. The buyer wanted to pay the original price although no set price on one item that the buyer removed from sellers home. There was no agreement on that one item.

Since the price came out for the third item and the price was increased for the other item, I will agree that the seller has no leg to stand on for the first items and only the third item.

Seller has asked for a price that buyer does not want to pay.

Problem is that seller is moving or has moved. Seller is not in a position to take back the items that are now in the possession of the buyer. Seller has to liquidate or walk away. Seller is not in a position to wait for someone to offer more money for the items.

To save face with the seller, since they are "friends", an offer is made to return the items. A time frame is set. Seller can claim the items within the time frame. After the time frame buyer can say that seller abandoned the items.

Tell me, since the seller has moved or will be moving, do you think that she is going to come back and pick up the items she sold?
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Old 02-06-2019, 08:54 AM
 
800 posts, read 434,683 times
Reputation: 734
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOON2BNSURPRISE View Post
Let me explain my post.

The seller is a friend of some kind. The buyer and seller know each other any way.

The Buyer wants the items that the seller is selling. The buyer wanted to pay the original price although no set price on one item that the buyer removed from sellers home. There was no agreement on that one item.

Since the price came out for the third item and the price was increased for the other item, I will agree that the seller has no leg to stand on for the first items and only the third item.

Seller has asked for a price that buyer does not want to pay.

Problem is that seller is moving or has moved. Seller is not in a position to take back the items that are now in the possession of the buyer. Seller has to liquidate or walk away. Seller is not in a position to wait for someone to offer more money for the items.

To save face with the seller, since they are "friends", an offer is made to return the items. A time frame is set. Seller can claim the items within the time frame. After the time frame buyer can say that seller abandoned the items.

Tell me, since the seller has moved or will be moving, do you think that she is going to come back and pick up the items she sold?

Look, from morality side, it's very bad to give a specific price to something then to change it later especially if there will be a loss for the buyer and especially if this happened on purpose; if this didn't happen on purpose, such as confusion or so on, It's OK (could happen); BUT STILL unacceptable to cause a loss to the buyer due to that unintentional mistake without at least taking the responsibility of it. PLUS it's unacceptable for the buyer to force the seller to accept the sale process if he/she strongly insists to cancel it.

So, in the Op story, I'm not with the seller and I'm not against her; and I'm not with the buyer and I'm not against her; I'm with what I see is right and what makes me feel comfortable.

Simply, what's known about sale is a process between 2 parts that requires ACCEPTANCE of the BOTH parts.

Let's suppose that A and B are friends and wanted to sell/buy in the same way Op & her friend used (Informal way.)
A had gave a price;
B accepted the price;
B Sent the money to A and informed him to check about it;
A received it and accepted it;

Finish

*******

What I'm seeing here (in this story) in my eyes, is not a sale, rather a "conflict DURING an informal sale process" or a "problem during an informal sale process".
At the time that the Op about to pay, there is a problem happened when the seller changed the price for one item, and the price came out for the third item.
Here, I see, in my view, since there is "interruption/problem" during the sale process, the buyer should STOP, NOT to continue, continuing is wrong, 2 wrong will not make right. When you STOP, you will be between 2 paths:

Either
1-Solve the problem cordially (based on friendship& trust) and continue.
Or
2-End the sale process.

I choose the second one when I see that the first one will not happen or doesn't seem to happen since they started calling names and accusations and doubts (I mean the seller who called names, according to Op), it's not in the buyer's favor to continue;

I choose to end/cancel the sale process AND what I mentioned in the page (6).


____________

*In relation to what I colored in purple:
Just because you have the items doesn't mean that you are the owner of it since you know previously that the seller had refused to sell and unsatisfied about that. And EVEN if the buyer feel that the 2 items already paid according to the previous agreement before their conflict, still there is the third item that there is no any agreement on it before, and still in the Op's apartment.

Whether the seller is in a position to take back the items or not OR in a position to wait for someone to offer more money for the items or not, that's her own business not our business. Whether She has enough time or not, what to do or what not to do, if she choose to give the items for her brother, for instance, or any one of her family members to sell it for her; or even if she choose to donate it for charity, that's her own business too. What's important is to take the responsibility of the loss she caused then get her items back.


*In relation to what I colored in darkorange:
This didn't happen in the Op's story; Op didn't offer her friend to come to take the 3 items.
what happened that the Op sent her friend the money to the 2 items that they were agreed on it BEFORE their conflict, then she told her friend: since there is no agreement was made on the third one (closet), come to pick up the closet. ONLY closet.
Her friend refused the money for the 2 items by speaking/writing, (she didn't turn the money back to the Op yet) and said: She wanted the 3 items back, she wanted to to hire some movers to come to take the 3 item from Op's apartment before her traveling and kept saying that but she needed Op to tell her the address which Op refused to give. Because she scared, since she's a girl who lives alone, what guarantee that she wouldn't hire some huge men to come and take all the 3 items and then she couldn't do anything. Re-read what she wrote again.


*About the last question:
What I can't understand by the first place that why most of you would suppose that she will not come back, just because she will go abroad she will never come back to her country? I don't suppose that she will comeback soon, but later maybe.
Look, if her friend really feel injustice, I don't rule out that she would comeback for this issue.

According to me, I don't care if she would come back or not. What I really care about is doing the right thing that makes my conscience comfortable.
On the other hand, don't think that her friend would be satisfied if she moved, the friend feeling is no less than Op's feeling or even worse especially that she is going to travel while feeling there is something behind unsatisfied about it, I do care about both feeling. If you truly feel injustice regardless that she committed a mistake claiming that was "confusion" and in a good financial situation and can afford those items but to feel injustice is really a bad feeling. IF this was her right, give her her right but with taking the responsibility of the loss she caused to the Op.

That's why, what I see what I mentioned in the page ( 6 ). It's my opinion, if I were in Op position that's what I imagine I would do because I'm convinced about it, then I would cut all communication off with her.
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Old 02-06-2019, 09:10 AM
 
6,270 posts, read 2,249,718 times
Reputation: 14444
Quote:
Originally Posted by historyfan View Post
She did not have a Bill of Sale & she removed property that belonged to another. What someone "said" can always be debated. If you get your paperwork straight first, there will be no debate later.

Do you remove an item from a store without a receipt for it?

She has a text trail...all she'd have to do is print out the texts.
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Old 02-06-2019, 12:23 PM
 
6,018 posts, read 2,768,209 times
Reputation: 15219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassybluesy View Post
She has a text trail...all she'd have to do is print out the texts.
I often delight in the anonymity of texted conversations. Be it text or other apps. How can you verify that the person utilizing either phone is the person you are actually in discussion with? Short of you standing beside them and texting each other...Which is in itself bizarre ( yet ohh so common for folks to NOT use their VOICE !!) .

I have absolutely borrowed phones for a day . And my oh my how hard would it have been to create a dialogue and use it as proof?

I am a realistic skeptic by nature when it comes to text messages....anyone can be on the other end.
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