Quote:
Originally Posted by recondite
Hey guys,
I need your opinion on something, because even though I already have a strong opinion on this and def think I'm right here I keep questioning it and myself, because this is about a friend that I've had for six years.
So, this friend and I have never been BFFs, but we've been knowing each other for years and hang out probably once a week or every two weeks. We even did two weekend trips together. She met this guy last year and now she's leaving the country to live with him (if it matters for the rest of the story, he's an investment banker and makes really good money), so she's leaving her apartment and sells all of her stuff. She told me a few weeks ago that she needs to get rid of everything fast, because she's leaving the end of January already and she pointed out how stressed she is about everything.
Well, I'm actually moving to a new apartment this week and I need to buy furniture, so I thought it's a win-win. I get her furniture (it's cheap Ikea furniture so good for my budget, haha) and she gets rid of it quickly without having to give it to strangers. I told her I'm interested in her couch, in her bed and in her closet. I asked for the price while we were talking on Facebook. She told me $70 for the couch, $180 for the bed, which was totally fine with me. I checked on this second hand app and prices on there for these kind of things were similar. She didn't tell me the price of the closet so I reminded her, and she said she's gonna 'send it to me' in a bit, which I found a bit odd but ok. Then I forgot about it unfortunately, and the next day was already my big move to the new apartment (I'm moving in tomorrow but a few days ago the landlord allowed me to already bring furniture there).
So, the big day of my move. I hired a van and two professional movers to help me. My friend wasn't at home when we got to the apartment, she told me the neighbors have the keys. When we opened the door I realized that she hadn't dissembled anything, not the couch, closet, or bed. Pretty annoying but ok I thought, we can do it. It took a LONG time to dissemble everything, and it also took a long time to get everything to my new apartment and rebuild it. I paid the movers $170 for everything because it literally took over 3h. And i took a day off work. Oh well, I thought, it's normal.
Then, a day later, this friend messages me and says 'So here are the prices for the furniture: Bed 180, couch 250, closet 300'. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. She just changed the price of the couch from 70 to 250, and the closet 300? Guys, it's a three years old white Ikea closet. I went on Ikea and I found a very similar with the same measurements for 250 NEW. So basically she wants the NEW price for a piece of furniture that's over three years old and isn't even in perfect condition anymore (some scratches). And the couch? She literally wants almost FOUR times more than what she initially asked for. The couch also def looks used, it has a big stain that's impossible to remove. So I told her ummmm you said 70 for the couch. I even have a screenshot of her saying that. Her answer? 'Hmm ya I must have gotten confused. So please pay me the real price thanks'.
Without going into too much detail about the discussions we had over the past two days, here is the sum up: First she told me to pay the full price for all three pieces, even though I kept pointing out how she cannopt just change the price AFTER I already moved her stuff to my new apt, and I also told her that this closet def isn't worth $300, since I found it NEW for 250. I told her: I'm gonna give you 70 for the couch as we agreed on, 180 for the bed as we agreed on and since you never told me a price for the closet (even though I asked several times, but I admit this is also my fault) you can decide: Give it to me for 180 (which is a very good offer IMO) or come pick it up and sell it to someone else. She got mad. Told me a couple of times again to just pay the full price. She told me she can't come pick up the closet because she's leaving the country ina . couple days. I told her I understand, but I'm not gonna pay that ridiculous price. I told her I'd be willing to put up the closet on the internet for 300 for a week, and if anyone is interested I'll gladly sell it to them for 300 and send her that money, but if it isn't sold within a week I'll keep it for 180. OR she can come pick it up before she leaves and sell it herself.
Then she just changed her mind and said: Ok now I don't want to sell you any of my stuff anymore. I will put everything back up on the internet and I will schedule visits, so be prepared that people will come to your apartment to look at the things and then you can sell them. I was like 'Umm what? First of all, I'm working full-time and don't have time to constantly have randos show up at my house to look at YOUR furniture (for ridiculous prices nobody is gonna pay anyways), second of all how do you think I'm going to live at my apartment if I basically have to be prepared that my bed and closet will be sold at any second (will I sleep on the floor for a couple of days after the bed is sold? Since I won't be able to buy new stuff now either, since two beds or two closets or couches don't fit in my apt). And third of all, I already paid big money for that transport, took a day off work and wasted that day dissembling and transporting your stuff, I'm not just gonna lose all that money and time because you got 'confused'.
So I gave her the options again: 1. Accept my offer. 70 for the couch and 180 for the bed as we agreed on, 180 for the closet which is a good offer. 2. Since the closet is the only piece that we didn't agree on before the moving, come pick it up anytime this week or let me put it on the second hand website online and try to sell it within a week for the price you want. 3. Come pick up ALL of your stuff but reimburse me the full transportation/moving costs.
She completely ignored all of it and just kept saying that I'ma thief and i'm stealing from her and that I'm a horrible person and that I'm not helping her. That she wants her stuff back and that I should tell her my address so someone can come pick up all of the stuff because she doesn't want to lose that money (funny that she cares so much about 'losing' $200 while not caring at all that I already paid $170 for the movers etc). I told her again that it doesn't work this way. That she cannot agree to sell me stuff, tell me prices and then once the stuff is at my apartment just raise the price. And the price of the closet is just ridiculous but I understand we didn't agree on that before, which is why I offered her to pick it up or have me put it on the internet. She just kept repeating herself that she needs my address to send people there to get everything. I stopped answering for now, this is ridiculous. Yesterday I already transferred her the money we agreed on before, the 70 for the couch and the 180 for the bed. I'm waiting with the closet because as I said, if she wants JUST the closet she can come get it, or let me put it on the internet for sale.
What do I do now? I am right here, right? This situation is just so unbelievably ridiculous and insane that I really can't wrap my head around it, and i never expected this from someone I've been knowing for so long. She doesn't care at all if I lose money, she just cares about herself. This has kept me awake til 3am last night because I'm really in shock kinda. Btw in case it matters, she isn't poor by any means. She has a good job in a stable company, we earn more or less the same and the boyfriend she is moving in with is an investment banker so financially she doesn't have to worry. Also, her past behaviour has worried me before- Like last year her wallet got stolen so she didn't have any cards, so she asked me to lend her $1000 and promised to pay me back as soon as she gets her cards back. I gave her the money, and a few weeks later she had her cards back, but then told me that she will pay me back small amounts over the next couple of weeks. I told her I'd prefer a bank transfer with all the money, but she just didn't listen. She took six months in total to pay me back, she paid me back in like 20 small payments. Even though I mentioned several times that I'd like all the money back in one transfer. I guess I was too nice or naive to really do something about it.
Any advice? How would you feel about this? Sorry for the long post.
Thanks!!
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Look, what it seems from individual views that you are in right and that's was her own mistake but also not completely which means you also have your own mistake when you put a hope on friendship and forgot to take into consideration the formal procedures and to ask about the closet's price, and then you took it without having an agreement on it.
From this issue I understand that the items that you have a conflict over it are 2, the couch & the closet because the bed's price still 180$ which means she didn't change its price, but at the end the case developed by your friend and turned to not desire to sell ALL her 3 stuff.
Now, the most important thing in this case, that you need to consider and based on it you can decide what to do, is to know the view from the law side (court). Why? because even if it seems you are right from people's side; if there is something considered unacceptable or uncompleted, for instance, from the law side, then you could face a trouble later. So from the beginning work in avoiding that, otherwise you could need to go to a court later. What you need to know now about the law side is this question:
Is it OK/acceptable to buy something such as furniture without having a sale of bill?
knowing that there is a previous agreement over 2 items price throughout E-mail, and already have or can get a proof that the buyer transfered money that = (...) throughout the bank, all this happened without sale of bill and the seller changed her opinion during the sale process and AFTER transferring the items to your place. (Only this what you neet to know and based on it you can know what to do)
Why is this important?
Because, at the time you already moved her items to your a new apartment and about to pay the price, she changed her opinion about the couch and raised it more claiming that she was confused before, it's bothering and unacceptable, of course. Whether she was really confused or did it purposely for some reason. it's unacceptable and should have taken the responsibility.
If she had changed her opinion about the old price BEFORE moving the items to your a new place, then it would be FINE/NO PROBLEM for both. Because there will not be any loss for both of you. Then, If you both disagreed over the new price, you would have time to change your opinion from buying and she would have time to change her opinion from selling. (
Now, I GUESS/MAYBE it's possible but with taking responsibility about the loss.)
Changing her opinion about one item's price AFTER ALREADY moving the items to your place is the factor that made a problem, not pay her attention _from your side_ to ask and to have an agreement over the third item, is another factor.
Now, you paid the price you both agreed on it before by transferring it throughout the bank, according to what I understood, while she's disagreeing about it and wanting the new price or to get all her stuff back; and there is no sale bill; at the same time, if you don't pay, you would lose 170$ due to moving the items to your new place because of her confusing & price changing.
Thane's why you need to know and to make sure from the law side, if it's OK to buy depending on what you stated without a bill of sale? Even if this was required, it doesn't mean that you will lose completely, I think they would take into consideration the loss that you got due to moving the items and changing her opinion about the price AFTER you already moved them. Regardless she meant it or not, it looks like a cheating or let's say, someone wants to get advantage of the another part to force him to pay or you will lose more. If non of it, she would take a responsibility about the loss she caused in anyway.
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From my view (If I were in such position, regardless of what law said):
*I would wait before paying a previous price that both agreed on it BEFORE and she changed her mind about it NOW. And I see that everybody needs to take his own responsibility of his own mistake (whether it was on purpose or not).
So, if she claims she was confused and wants to turn back about the previous sale agreement (that happened without sale bill), it's OK/fine BUT on the other hand, she has to take the responsibility about the loss she caused to the buyer.
*About you as a (Buyer), there is a loss you got from moving an item that there was no agreement over it calming that you forgot to ask about its price before transferring it. So, you also take your responsibility about your own mistake. Therefor, the time and effort spent to move a closet will NOT be calculated on your friend's side. Because although it's not stealing since she was agreed to take it, but BASICALLY you shouldn't have taken it since there was no agreement over it, and even don't know its price.
You paid 170$ to MOVE 3 items to your new place. So, the equation will be like this:
The Total cost paid on moving the couch& bed&closet - The cost paid on moving the closet = ( ....$ ) (
Look, I just mean moving the items, so I'm talking about 170$ you already paid to the movers/workers.)
170$ - the cost paid on moving the closet = (.......$)
The result that we got between (.... $ ), your friend should pay it since it was her mistake to change her opinion AFTER MOVING the items; I didn't count the closet here because it was your mistake,
(even if she did it on purpose.) Like I said, basically you shouldn't have taken it since there was no agreement over it.
Since you already paid the previous price that you were both agreed on it for the bad& couch, so :
FIRST: she has to give back the money paid for those 2 items that you had transfered it to her throughout the bank and she refused it due to changing her opinion about the price.
SECOND: She should pay the cost spent on moving the 2 items (bed & couch) WITHOUT calculating the cost of moving the closet. (If you choose to give it up, it's up to u, you can take it as a lesson)
THIRD: She accepted to bring some workers to take the 3 items back although this will required her to pay the cost of moving the items as well, at the same time, she needs your address that you don't want to give her. I agree to NOT give her your address even if that would produce some loss to you. Therefor, since the rejection will be on your side, so move the 3 items to some place (safe place) not street or ... and tell her to receive them at that address, be careful that the 3 items will not get any damage, and take a formal paper (prove that you gave them back and she received it.) If there are males on your family side_at least 1 and 2 women_ take them with you as witnesses and for general safety, too. If you choose to bring the 3 items directly to her apartment and put them outside, then she can bring them inside. It will be better but don't forget the formal precedes that proved you already gave her items back; don't go alone, too.
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Some notes on this topic:
1-If your friend did that on purpose ( I mean let you bring the items to your place to lose money, then changed the price of 1 item, then give a big cost for the third one who didn't have any agreement over it as a kind of pressure on you in order to pay the whole price she wanted.)
I said IF she did it on purpose, then she would be a very stupid fraudulent.
2-If she didn't do it on purpose, and just was confused and got mistake like what she said, she would only be fool, exactly like you (
Since "fool" has a lot of meaning in translation, so I mean by fool, the person who doesn't necessarily have a bad intention but acted inappropriately and didn't think about the consequence).
3- When I read your thread, you gave the reader impression that she did it on purpose, after I completed reading her responses, I really couldn't determine whether or not it was on purpose, because when I think about it, I find that it's not in her favor to do something like that since there is no guarantee about it while she only have a few days to travel abroad (
Only if she is a stupid person).
4- When I look at the prices she put, I found that she didn't change the price of the bed, it's still 180$, and the couch changed from 70$ to 250$, it's a big difference!; so that what makes me wonder if she really was confused and had given another price by mistake. (
Go to the ikea and look if there is the same second hand couch with 70$, this is just to have an idea about that; there might not be such a price and she was really confused).
5- From her reaction, your friend seems really believe you are a thief, and she's really not convinced that her items costs another price regardless whether she was right or not, she seems really wants her items back and prepared to lose the cost of moving them from your apartment. so I don't see to ignore her. If you are sure 100% that you are right, then you can suggest her to complain to the court hopefully both of you know his own mistake and take her full right.
6- If I were in your position, I would do what I mentioned above between the red lines regardless of what law says, I would give all her items back and I would take a lesson, basically I would feel disgusting every time I see those items that related to this person or that incidence.
7-Don't allow anybody to call you a 'thief' when you see that she is a 'fraudulent'. At the same time, take a responsibility from the fatuity you committed.
8- Just because she will travel abroad doesn't mean that she can't complain, or do anything if she truly believes she is right and legally she still own those stuff, why would you assume that she will not come back to her country, is she immigrant or foreigner, for instance?
If not, why not to comeback? if she has a family such as parents, siblings ..etc, she could comeback to visit them on vacations, if she doesn't love her life abroad or got any trouble there, she most likely will comeback. No guarantee.
You need to care about doing the right thing, not to get rid of her. After doing the right thing, then cut all communication with her.
9- Next time, don't accept to enter someone's home to pick up items without him/her being there even if you were not alone, and even if he/she was the one who gave you the permission to do that. If the person was from your family such as a brother/sister..etc who you do know well or close to, then it's OK, it's better not to do, though; especially in your culture.
10- Friendship is a thing and business is another thing, so don't put a hope on friendship to the extent you forget taking into consideration the formal procedures such as a sale of bill that guarantee the right for both of you; I know a lot o people who do the same thing, you are not the first one.
11- Don't sell any items for her, it's not your business.
12- Next time, before moving any items to your place, make sure first to send a
verification msg to the seller, and inform him/her that you are going to transfer the items into your place, and the costs you agreed on it as following:
Ex: Couch ...$, bed ...$, closet ...$, Total=...$, are you still agreed on it before moving them? any change in price after moving the stuff, you will take the full responsibility for any damage or loss could happen. If he/she said: yes I agree, then go ahead and start.
13- This is not something you have to follow, it's just opinion. Since you are going to to move to a new apartment and don't have time to buy a new stuff or can't afford it right now. Why not to wait for some time, you can buy cheap clean and NEW bed better than expensive but second hand, it's just for
temporary time, until you have a vacation then you can have time to design/buy the new furniture that have a quality and satisfies your taste. Just let every thing new. If there are scratches and a big spot on some of those items, it's really not a good looking, originally it doesn't worth to buy it!
At the end, I just want to know your opinion over this issue, let's suppose that there is a friend wanted to sell you a piece of her jewelry ( let's say a neckless), and she wrote to you by E-mail that its cost 5000$, and you agreed. Later, you discussed with her by writing throughout Social Media and she told you, you can go to her apartment to pick up the neckless, and the keys you would get it from her neighbor, you went there and took her neckless to your home. After that she sent you a msg saying that she want you to pay 10000$, you asked her why she changed the price that you both agreed on it before by E-mail. she said: I must have been confused and now you need to pay the 10000$ thanks. What would you do?
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