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Old 02-09-2019, 09:08 PM
 
18,350 posts, read 23,515,236 times
Reputation: 34397

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actions or in-actions are louder than words..

see it for what it is ...not what you want it to be..
and be careful trying to guess/conclude another persons motive....


these are big decisions... id back off

what was doesn't mean what WILL

I had a coworker give me an all or nothing ultimatum in a similar situation.... we are no longer friends.. that says it all

if its clarity you absolutely need....then throw him out an open end question...
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Old 02-10-2019, 06:58 AM
 
16,019 posts, read 19,670,751 times
Reputation: 26200
Quote:
Originally Posted by matisse12 View Post
I do not understand needing to or wanting to work as a twosome so strongly.
I agree. OP, you are shooting yourself in the foot making Bob a part of any new job criteria. Why?

You may need to explore this situation as it seems unhealthy emotionally and financially.


Make Bob a friend....But stop sabotaging your self professionally.

Your statement upthread about Bob possibly not wanting to say No to you. You seem like a person who does not take No for an answer. Perhaps all this dodging is a clever ruse Bob has undertaken to get rid of you as his competition...You did say he got promoted after you left. Something to think about.
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Old 02-10-2019, 07:08 AM
 
3,964 posts, read 1,693,299 times
Reputation: 8072
Quote:
Originally Posted by unknown00 View Post
+1 sounds like the only logical explanation

As I mentioned previously, in my market/area, one of the top reasons pple change jobs is due to personal referrals & relationships. I'm in the latter part of my career and people around me make me just as successful as myself
People often change jobs because they already know people working there or are familiar with the work the company does through their current job. They donít change jobs and then expect someone else to go with them unless it is a start-up situation.

Clearly in this situation, your friend is in a situation where he just got promoted at Company A. They like him and he is doing well there. He probably has accrued better benefits after several years of service and would have to give up some PTO, any vesting in a 401K, etc. to go to a new job. That can be important, particularly near the end of a career when you donít want to have to wait several years for vesting at a new job if you already are vested. I know people at my last job who just stuck it out in mediocre positions because they were vested in their retirement benefits and probably wouldnít be able to get much elsewhere.
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Old 02-10-2019, 07:39 AM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
1,885 posts, read 1,843,914 times
Reputation: 1492
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvert Hall '62 View Post
Friendship and business, analogous to oil and H2O.


Ditto with loaning money to a friend.


As well as co-renting with a friend.


Friendship almost always suffers.
And I would add having a friend as a real estate client! Sometimes you find out how crazy they are.
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Old 02-10-2019, 08:07 AM
 
1,017 posts, read 1,151,019 times
Reputation: 667
Quote:
Originally Posted by JanND View Post
I agree. OP, you are shooting yourself in the foot making Bob a part of any new job criteria. Why?

You may need to explore this situation as it seems unhealthy emotionally and financially.
Said this many times - in my position/area/market, the people I interact with day by day has a direct effect on how successfully I am (including financially) at my job
Quote:
Originally Posted by RamenAddict View Post
People often change jobs because they already know people working there or are familiar with the work the company does through their current job. They don’t change jobs and then expect someone else to go with them unless it is a start-up situation.

Clearly in this situation, your friend is in a situation where he just got promoted at Company A. They like him and he is doing well there. He probably has accrued better benefits after several years of service and would have to give up some PTO, any vesting in a 401K, etc. to go to a new job. That can be important, particularly near the end of a career when you don’t want to have to wait several years for vesting at a new job if you already are vested. I know people at my last job who just stuck it out in mediocre positions because they were vested in their retirement benefits and probably wouldn’t be able to get much elsewhere.
Can easily refute your post (though I'm not saying I disagree with it)...
  • Yes this is a startup situation
  • Being at both companies - benefits are more/less equal
  • Both have unlimited PTO (as with most startups)
  • Same 401K vesting
  • Same equity vesting
Only thing that I'm thinking is the recent promotion/reputation he has earned.

Though I still don't get, if he really wasn't interested, why he wouldn't just tell me from day 1...
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Old 02-10-2019, 09:59 AM
 
117 posts, read 49,789 times
Reputation: 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by unknown00 View Post
Bob and I are really good friends. We met from a previous job (company A) and were an amazing duo. We were both highly recognized and praised together by many and worked together every day for 4 years.

Unfortunately, eventually I had to leave company A but we always wanted the opportunity to work together again. We have always kept in touch as our friendship was more than just being coworkers.

Last year Bob was thinking about leaving and going to company B. He reached out to me and asked if we wanted to work together again and be the dynamic duo. Of course I said yes. When I started interviewing with company B, I told them I was only interested if Bob joined. Bob eventually decided not to move forward.

Now 2019, I'm thinking about leaving and going to company C. Of course, I reached out to Bob. He seemed optimistic. I had gotten a job offer from company C (time bound as usual) and asked Bob if he was serious about joining me because I know he just got promoted at company A. I told him I wouldn't accept the offer unless Bob would eventually join too. Bob agreed, so I accepted the job offer. Bob continued through the interview process, but was super flaky. We kept in touch through the process and he often had to "reschedule". I continued to promote and pump him up with company C saying how great of a guy Bob is and how Bob is serious about joining. Eventually, but very slowly, he was down to the final rounds. I double checked with him a couple days before his final rounds to make sure he was serious and he assured me he was. He even asked me for prep material and I spent time writing a long email to prepare for him.

This is where the red flags started...
  • As I said, I sent him a long email to help him prep. By default in my Gmail, I have an email tracker (see when people open/read your email). He opened my email once the day I sent it to him, and never again.
  • Today is 1 day supposedly after his final rounds. I called him last night, he didn't pick up. I texted him today, he never responded. Bob is a very direct/open/responsive person, and this has me very concerned.
  • Lastly, selfishly, my reputation is at stake with company C since I vouched for Bob. Also, Bob not joining definitely makes me reconsider (even though it's too late)
For those saying
  1. Why don't I just check with company C? I haven't officially started, but of course when I start I could
  2. Maybe Bob is afraid to say no to me? As I said, Bob is a super direct/open/responsive person so that's not him

//end rant. Just feel very betrayed and let down
First: are you positive, Bob is still alive?
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Old 02-10-2019, 12:28 PM
 
6,839 posts, read 3,713,227 times
Reputation: 18078
Quote:
Originally Posted by unknown00 View Post
Said this many times - in my position/area/market, the people I interact with day by day has a direct effect on how successfully I am (including financially) at my job

...
Sounds like that dynamic duo may have been one way. You need him to be successful. From what you've written, it doesn't seem like he needs you.
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Old 02-10-2019, 01:59 PM
 
Location: on the wind
7,098 posts, read 2,911,245 times
Reputation: 24022
Quote:
Originally Posted by unknown00 View Post
Though I still don't get, if he really wasn't interested, why he wouldn't just tell me from day 1...
It may be as simple as...he didn't know on day 1. He's taking time to weigh his options. Complicated decisions like this usually end up in the grey zone, neither black or white. Until he does decide he doesn't want to give you false impressions. Maybe he doesn't want to burden you with his thought process...it is private after all. Just leave it alone for now. Whatever he decides you need to respect it. If he's the straight shooter you say he is, you'll find out soon enough and his reasons.
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Old 02-10-2019, 02:42 PM
 
659 posts, read 324,577 times
Reputation: 1974
Open your eyes. You are no longer a team. Do not ask Bob to do this again. He is giving you his response by his actions.
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Old 02-10-2019, 05:41 PM
 
Location: Kirkland, WA (Metro Seattle)
3,983 posts, read 3,252,328 times
Reputation: 7072
Quote:
Originally Posted by matisse12 View Post
I do not understand needing to or wanting to work as a twosome so strongly.
To the above and other person who thought it 'bizarre':

High performance teams produce better results than the sum of their parts, just about every time. They never last. I've been on exactly one in my career, five of us at Director-level (account leadership) who were superstars and made millions for the mothership on Microsoft, HP, and Cisco accounts.

Now someone will point to Elon Musk, Jobs, Gates, or some other brilliant, brittle, half-insane 99.99% intellect who flies solo and produces more than ten, a hundred, or thousands of strong men on their own. Those people need no one nor does anyone want to be near them (think: Isaac Newton, a sonofabatch if there ever was one, but then again I couldn't write something like 'Principia Mathematica' on my own, either).

I've seen high-performance duos a few times in my career. My mentor Mike and I were one for a couple years running an analytics and PM organization, see "high performance teams", each with a domain of expertise but with overlap so we could cross-check. In fact last place I worked had an Ops Dir and a Dir of Acct Exec as the dynamic duo, they came over together from elsewhere couple years ago and I'm sure will be fired together since that place is a train wreck anymore. Not from lack of trying, though, and they are complementary to one another. Lastly, a boss twenty years ago worked closely with this wife, also with complementary skills. They were each an intellectual terror alone, and astounding together.

Don't knock it until you've seen it, when it works it can be scary-good in terms of results.
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