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Old 02-26-2019, 02:44 PM
 
Location: Southern California
5,413 posts, read 8,119,255 times
Reputation: 5046

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YOUR OBLIGATION IS NOTHING. DON'T YOU DARE DO IT! I wouldn't even if she was my full-blood sibling. You have YOUR own family/child & she has hers. Her rough life, misfortunes, bad luck, etc. are NOT your responsibility. Sure you may feel bad for her, but it's NOT your responsibility. You'd be putting your OWN family at risk & who's the priority here, your OWN family or hers?! You shouldn't even have to think about that for a second.

I'm skimming through this thread to read your posts & I hope you're not trying to convince us & yourself w/ excuses of why you should do this ("she's in a bind, she's been struggling, I feel bad, she's desperate, she's been fired, she's in low-income housing, she'll get her life back if I just do this one favor, but the kid is getting better, etc., etc., etc.") Again, all that is NOT on you to do anything. Don't let her pigeon-hole you, make you feel guilty, or like the lowest person on the planet if you don't do this. In fact, that would make me even more so NOT want to do this, which I wouldn't in a million yrs anyway. So she's shooting herself in the foot w/ any sob stories because I'd really be on deaf ears.

And just so you know, I used to be a special ed teacher & worked w/ kids for a good 14 yrs, so it's not like I'm some cold-hearted person. I like children.

Also let me remind you of these kids:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/j...-a8203306.html

10 Absolutely Brutal Child Killers - Listverse

https://thoughtcatalog.com/charlie-s...thic-behavior/

Last edited by Forever Blue; 02-26-2019 at 02:52 PM..
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Old 02-26-2019, 03:50 PM
 
53 posts, read 10,582 times
Reputation: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by emotiioo View Post
And to those who have asked, father is not in the picture. The marriage broke up when the child was 5 and his mom refused to get him inpatient care after he attacked another child violently. No one knows where Dad is. He refuses all contact. I had heard that he had set up some kind of arrangement to pay support through an attorney at one point but the cost of this child's care is heavy. Mother doesn't have a professional job and works in restaurants.
Quote:
Originally Posted by emotiioo View Post
This is her situation. She's desperate.

I feel for her. I do. I can't imagine what it's like to have a child like this. There's a bit of denial about how bad it really is on her part. No other relatives want him at their house even with her supervising him. He was actually one of the subjects in a documentary about violent kids and for those who have not seen him in a while it was enough to convince us we don't have the stamina or training to deal with him.

I have offered to help pay for her to stay elsewhere as this program is really supposed to have fantastic outcomes but the issue is that she can't get away long enough to check him in early and attend the meetings she needs to. So she wants someone to transport him to the facility on the first day of the intake and she's supposed to show up for the appointments she needs to attend. She's worried about him being late and she found transportation options that will get him to our house a day early. To which I shudder. This child is not equipped to handle solo travel. But again, she's desperate. I doubt that this would be acceptable I'd the program knew about it as they take kids like this pretty seriously as a possible threat to others.

She is always frazzled and overwhelmed and she's trying to make it work. I just can't help. She needs to be with this kid for the duration of the trip. I'm not going to be responsible for him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by emotiioo View Post
She's been fired a bunch of times because of issues with the kid. She lives in a low cost of living area that isn't the most exciting economically so I gather that jobs don't grow on trees. She can't move. She had to buy a place because she was kicked out of several apartments when the kid got into altercations or made disturbances. She's been through the ringer. Her house is not in a very nice area and it's barely liveable but it's what she can afford. We have sent her funds over the years to help with roof repairs, furnace etc.

If she gets this kid into this program she might get a piece of her life back. I agree she needs to throw herself? N the mercy of the program but she seems hesitant. No doubt she's scared of screwing up the chance her kid will get accepted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by emotiioo View Post
There was a treatment facility that was willing to take him. I know for a fact because one of my other relatives is a child psychologist who had ties to it. Step sisters husband'd family was willing to do whatever it took to pay for care. Which would have been a huge financial burden. Step sibling refused as she couldn't bear to put her child away. The child got worse. I would say that he manipulated the situation and drove a wedge between his parents but at 5, I can't believe he was capable of doing that consciously. His behaviors we're very different based on whatever parent he was with. He told his father he was "going to make him die" one day because "it will be funny to me" and that was the final straw. Mom never believed he would say that. And dad got the heck out of there. Later Mom found drawings of a man bleeding and asked him who it was. Nephew calmly said 'its daddy. But he's gone now so I don't need to do this."
This is rough. There have been a few instances where a friend/acquaintance will tell me that a child relation did something horrifying, and showed no remorse or comprehension. It made me wonder what I would do if it was my child. I have no answer and some people have no choice.

It's understandable to say "not my problem" or "my family/needs come first", but there should at least be some hesitance if one is a decent human being.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coschristi View Post
She's not in denial. People think I'm in denial. Neither of us are in denial. We just have a broader perspective of what we are capable of. If anything; everybody else with their first world problems are the ones in denial.

You'd be surprised at how far you can push yourself until there is nothing left of you to give. And then give a little more. If you keep giving you will eventually forget that you had nothing left. If you live this cycle for a few months it will turn into years. You, personally; cannot be expected to have what it takes to do this. You are not his mother. People, please. I know there are some awesome self-sacrificing dads out there but most of them wouldn't last a day in my shoes & by the time someone asks; "Where's the dad in all this?" Don't we already know?

You, personally & as a whole (as in everyone reading this thread) probably do have what it takes to kick in a few bucks to help but you know what? You shouldn't have to because ... you already have been! Assuming ya'll are taxpayers.

At some point someone will have to make a stand because there are more & more kids succumbing to these neurological disorders every day. Callous and Unemotional traits (CU) was just recently added to the DSM in 2013 (& just don't even with the "We're just better at diagnosing!").

See; you have spent a lot of money already for her kid & mine & so many others but as long as there are mothers like us to be exploited by the federally sanctioned human trafficking that your tax dollars support? Medicare/Medicaid is banking over $4 Million per kid to be regurgitated later for substandard care provided by minimum wage workers.

Here are your dollars at work for 3 different scenarios:

1. Cost to taxpayers if kid diagnosed by age 5, assuming a 65-year life span for the kid if Mom were to pull a Dad & POOF: $8,803,800 (based on Medicaid reimbursement for Residential Psychiatric facility of $402/day or $146,730/year).

2. Cost to taxpayers assuming same life span for the kid if Mom spends her life in abject poverty to care for kid until she is 60 years old & kid is 30: $4,944,363 (based on Medicaid reimbursement for Residential Psychiatric facility for 30 years plus Mom's subsidies of $542,463).

3. Cost to taxpayers assuming same life spans for both kid & Mom if Medicaid/Medicare were to reimburse Mom enough for her to hire therapy & respite care for kid; totaling 42 hrs a week, provide residence, meals, transportation, NOT live in abject poverty & be able to set up special-needs trust for kid for when she is over age of 60 or dies: $2,200,950

Scenario #3 just saved taxpayers almost $3 million dollars over #2 & over $6 million dollars for #3 ... for just one kid & it would have spared you from being put in the awkward situation you have been put in.

Scenario #1 will start happening a lot more if scenario #2 is all there is to look forward to. I personally, would have more autonomy & a higher standard of living if I had been bought & sold in the Philippines & brought here to work for a wealthy family. But I just love my kid. As your sister does, I'm sure.

(reimbursement rates are for the state of Colorado: https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/hcp...s-fee-schedule)
I'd rep this post but I can't rep you any more...

Medicaid is very poorly managed and backwards, like most aid programs. I'd be very surprised if this boy gets any real help if the mother is poor. I mentioned somewhere else on these forums about being prescribed antidepressants as a teenager, paid for by Medicaid, while I was homeless. Truthfully, the public school system was a major driver of these prescriptions. I learned that spotty attendance in school is a problem with the brain, not with being destitute. Medicaid seal of approval.
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Old 02-27-2019, 12:58 PM
 
16,025 posts, read 19,609,150 times
Reputation: 26195
Quote:
Originally Posted by emotiioo View Post
This family member has been struggling financially and with the kid being how he is visiting wasn't in the cards. Mom says he's better and it's a big deal he was accepted into the program he wants to visit. I think she wants him to go so that she gets a break as much as he gets help. We live within an easy drive of the facility.

I do think it's a LOT to ask.
I think you are having a moral dilemma. You've stayed in touch because you felt it was the right thing to do. Now, that you've been asked to prove your support you are not wanting to.


Perhaps you should simply be honest with the relative, that you do not feel capable of hosting this young man. It would be kinder to do this asap so that she can possibly find another host family.


What you should expect is that you are no longer looked at as supportive. Because you obviously are not.


I feel that you've mislead this relative, pretending to care and be supportive. It could even be that she researched programs for her son based on the fact that she thought that she had your support.


Question....Would you have the support of the professionals while he was residing with you? Could the mom possibly come stay with you during this time, even if it was only on weekends?

Personally, I would do it. Especially since your Mom is close by...and it is a professional program....and he has obviously made the strides needed to participate.
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Old 02-27-2019, 03:22 PM
 
Location: Texas
9,237 posts, read 3,570,432 times
Reputation: 19098
Quote:
Originally Posted by JanND View Post
What you should expect is that you are no longer looked at as supportive. Because you obviously are not.
.
This poster is not obligated to give support to this person particularly not at the expense of his/her own family. There's no way I'd want him in my house, anywhere near my pets or kids.

It seems you are trying to throw little shame nuggets at this poster and/or make this person feel guilty. Hopefully they won't buy into that.
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Old 02-27-2019, 03:38 PM
 
2,358 posts, read 1,194,164 times
Reputation: 5081
Thanks for all if the input. I have decided we can't host this young man. We spoke with my step sister and got more information on the program. It seems that she wanted to fudge some of the information she was telling the intake professionals so that she could take off less time from work and attend sessions she needed to. She actually wants the program to list as as emergency contacts when he is in residence and she is out of state. So once I found this out it was very easy to refuse. We want nothing to do with being legally responsible for this child. If anything happens we would be the first call when she wasn't available.

I did struggle with this as I honestly believe this kid has the potential to be seriously harmful to others. This program may be the last chance to save innocent people from him years from now. But I can't sacrifice my own family or peace of mind. I think many who feel this is the wrong decision would make a similar one if they saw this child in action. But if no one helps him his future is pretty well decided.

We did offer to pay for lodging and transportation for both of them on a plane. Together. Where Mom can be alert to his every move. But she said she can't risk losing another job and take off the time she needs. We are looking into whether we can get the program to arrange something but honestly it's doubtful. The slots are in demand... sadly there's many kids with these issues and not enough facilities to help.

But he's not coming to our house. Just not happening. We have not been told the entire truth. I understand why. But that's not fair to us. And there's a good chance that our good deed would open the door for our home and family to be targeted by this child during an "episode'.
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Old 02-27-2019, 05:20 PM
 
3,744 posts, read 9,582,130 times
Reputation: 6997
You made a rational and well thought out decision.
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Old 02-27-2019, 06:16 PM
 
945 posts, read 286,451 times
Reputation: 2067
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetana3 View Post
You made a rational and well thought out decision.
Absolutely. The only decision the OP could have made.

My sister-in-law is bipolar with hallucinations. I did not allow her to babysit my kids. So, I was the villain of the family.

About a decade ago, there was a news story from Katonah, NY about a woman with bipolar with hallucinations. She was babysitting for her nieces. She stabbed them with a kitchen knife. When she woke up from her trance, she saw her nieces covered in blood. Thankfully, she called the police and the nieces survived. She was committed to a psychiatric institution.

When I heard this story, I knew I made the right decision with my sister-in-law. Not that my mother-in-law would ever agree with me.

You made the right decision too.
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Old 02-27-2019, 07:16 PM
 
Location: Southern California
5,413 posts, read 8,119,255 times
Reputation: 5046
Good! But for me personally, it wouldn't take any kind of thinking, considering, etc. I just wouldn't do it.
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Old 02-28-2019, 05:01 AM
 
42 posts, read 10,746 times
Reputation: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by JanND View Post
I think you are having a moral dilemma. You've stayed in touch because you felt it was the right thing to do. Now, that you've been asked to prove your support you are not wanting to.


Perhaps you should simply be honest with the relative, that you do not feel capable of hosting this young man. It would be kinder to do this asap so that she can possibly find another host family.


What you should expect is that you are no longer looked at as supportive. Because you obviously are not.


I feel that you've mislead this relative, pretending to care and be supportive. It could even be that she researched programs for her son based on the fact that she thought that she had your support.


Question....Would you have the support of the professionals while he was residing with you? Could the mom possibly come stay with you during this time, even if it was only on weekends?

Personally, I would do it. Especially since your Mom is close by...and it is a professional program....and he has obviously made the strides needed to participate.
Pardon me but this is absolutely absurd. A person can be supportive and wish well on a family member without opening up their home and putting their family in harm's way. There are degrees. Its not either/or.

I have a cousin was I close to as a kid. He has mental health problems and is in jail for killing someone. He is up for parole in two years. I will not be offering to let him stay with me when he gets out. Could he be rehabilitated? Maybe. I don't think you understand that certain problems can't be "cured" but only managed. As the parent of a teen son, I can tell you that even the most normal kid has trouble with impulse control. I can't imagine a child with a sociopathic personality at 14 trying to control themselves.

I am glad you say you would do this. Maybe you can reach out to the OP and offer up your home for this child to stay. But you know what? I doubt you would put yourself in the line of fire if really faced with this situation.
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Old 02-28-2019, 05:34 AM
 
Location: North Dakota
7,679 posts, read 8,978,074 times
Reputation: 11027
Quote:
Originally Posted by emotiioo View Post
Thanks for all if the input. I have decided we can't host this young man. We spoke with my step sister and got more information on the program. It seems that she wanted to fudge some of the information she was telling the intake professionals so that she could take off less time from work and attend sessions she needed to. She actually wants the program to list as as emergency contacts when he is in residence and she is out of state. So once I found this out it was very easy to refuse. We want nothing to do with being legally responsible for this child. If anything happens we would be the first call when she wasn't available.

I did struggle with this as I honestly believe this kid has the potential to be seriously harmful to others. This program may be the last chance to save innocent people from him years from now. But I can't sacrifice my own family or peace of mind. I think many who feel this is the wrong decision would make a similar one if they saw this child in action. But if no one helps him his future is pretty well decided.

We did offer to pay for lodging and transportation for both of them on a plane. Together. Where Mom can be alert to his every move. But she said she can't risk losing another job and take off the time she needs. We are looking into whether we can get the program to arrange something but honestly it's doubtful. The slots are in demand... sadly there's many kids with these issues and not enough facilities to help.

But he's not coming to our house. Just not happening. We have not been told the entire truth. I understand why. But that's not fair to us. And there's a good chance that our good deed would open the door for our home and family to be targeted by this child during an "episode'.
Good for you.
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