Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I like the graphic but I'm not understanding how "rabid liberals" are related.
I hesitated to post it knowing how irritating those moving ones can be. But that was the picture I had in my mind and who can resist Monty Python?
Although I like to think of myself as a Moderate and social-issue aware I did belong to a UU for several years trying to find my spot. It's a rare UU which would have a majority of Conservative or even Moderate members. I think they'd be uncomfortable.
Would have left your own church because of something someone in the choir said??
It was the worship LEADER and music director - every single Sunday - not just some member of the choir, one time. But that's not even really the point.
The point is that often there are massive "artistic egos" at play and that really doesn't sit well with the congregation, many if not most of whom are there to worship, not to watch some show.
I don't understand cultures like this. So, boiling everyone down to mediocrity is their goal? That's a good thing?? They don't want anyone in their community to be good at anything? They don't want people to contribute their talents toward building a healthy, happy, prosperous community?
I don't know what church Steve attended and I don't recall seeing what I would call self-righteousness in my childhood church but I'd like to comment on this.
I grew up in a small community developed by Norwegian immigrants in the late eighteen-hundreds. There's a place to start - with isolation. There's a strong need for everyone to get along because everyone's related or related by marriage and still dependent upon each other for social and commercial needs That's explanation number one.
Explanation number two is something I thought for years was a culture-specific quality of Norwegians. And that was a reluctance to stand out in a crowd, a sort of false humility. If you were complimented it was expected you'd downplay whatever it was that was being seen as exceptional. Never, ever recognize yourself as gifted in any possible way.
(I once shocked my daughter at a family meal when she said how good the food was and I answered, "Yes, it was really good, wasn't it?" She said, "You're not supposed to say that!" So it looks like I was still carrying that old rule well into young adulthood.)
Later I began to realize that this may have been less a quality of Norwegians and more a tendency of immigrants at that time and place. People were expected to assimilate fast, not be different. Accidently speaking the native language might bring scorn or other social consequences so people tended to be withdrawn socially in the earlier generations.
There were no social services and you also didn't want to call any attention if you had more material things than others for fear of envy or theft. The banker's wife, our church soloist (way past the time when her voice worked well) nearly died of loneliness because people feared they couldn't live up to her educated standards, poor thing. She told my mom one time, "I'd drink coffee out of a cracked cup if someone would invite me."
I'm only second generation American and these were still the standards in my community while I was growing up. Some of these community "rules" can last for many generations, long past the time they are useful, in a small place or a given church.
I can't say for sure if my perceptions of why they existed are accurate, but I have given it a lot of thought and this is what I've decided. Change is painful to the established.
100 Hail Marys for those who envy, that's what your church leader should order.
If you sing so beautifully that other feel intimidated, should people with beautiful exterior wear burkas?
Weird logic of truly bad people.
Envy is disgusting and it ruins people from within.
There was a Kurt Vonnegut story about equalizing everyone by preventing special people from using their gifts.
Beautiful people had to wear bags over their heads. Smart people wore an irritating device that kept them from concentrating. Talented dancers wore weight on their legs so they wouldn't be graceful.
Maybe you should pass that book around, then offer to wear a gag while you sing.
I hesitated to post it knowing how irritating those moving ones can be. But that was the picture I had in my mind and who can resist Monty Python?
Although I like to think of myself as a Moderate and social-issue aware I did belong to a UU for several years trying to find my spot. It's a rare UU which would have a majority of Conservative or even Moderate members. I think they'd be uncomfortable.
That wasn’t the case in the one I went to, although Christian. Conservatives wouldnt be attracted to it. It was too secular to me, I felt like I was in a history class during some of the sermons. They weren’t really opinion pieces though and no one told anyone how to live. That part was what I was looking for, God without the heaven and hell and “you better live like this or you’ll fry for eternity” stuff. There were mostly older hippie types there so it was a liberal leaning congregation but I dont t recall that reflected in the church services themselves. There was a big emphasis on community, volunteering in the community, etc and you were asked to bring food for the local food bank to services.
And it's really surprising to me that a church like this would want to do old style choir music and hymns instead of more contemporary music with a band.
We have a band that performs contemporary music two Sundays/month. The choir only sings one Sunday/month partly because there is indeed a preference for contemporary music and partly because no one (neither me nor the choir members) wants to do more than that.
Also, the choir sings a mixture of “serious” contemporary music, world music, folk, gospel and choral arrangements of more “anthemic” rock. We do do straight classical, but usually not more than 1x/year.
This is a side note but I am just curious. You're not happy there are more and more kids in your church? You do know that's how religions grow? A church filled with old people won't be around for very long.
Yes, this is the argument that is always made: “Children are our future!”
My rejoinder to this is that, yes this is true for most congregations, but not actually for us because:
1) We are in a retirement state— Florida— so we do get a consistent influx of older new members and at the same time
2) We are a very educated congregation and the vast majority of the children who grow up in our church leave the area to pursue their studies elsewhere and do not come back, so they do not actually grow our congregation.
It was the worship LEADER and music director - every single Sunday - not just some member of the choir, one time. But that's not even really the point.
The point is that often there are massive "artistic egos" at play and that really doesn't sit well with the congregation, many if not most of whom are there to worship, not to watch some show.
l can appreciate your sitch l had the same problem at art school. And yeah , even the teachers didn't know what to do with me , or like me very much bruised egos , students complaining, all sorts of crap.
ln the end l had to quit it was pointless me going. The teachers could still show me stuff but it was so far out of step with everyone else it basically needed to be one on one..
Maybe like me and my art, you should just be making your own music and putting it out there.
The bottom line is that "you sing too beautifully" was someone's way of being gentle. "A couple of people have said" could also have been down-played - it may be more than that. I don't blame you for feeling hurt. But part of the problem is that you don't know the real truth yet.
The actual complaint against you is something different that they are avoiding saying.
We don't know what that actual complaint is, but it could be one of several things that you have alluded to. Or it could be something different that we haven't touched on.
The point is, there's something more to these complaints. Perhaps you could sit down with the director and tell her that you sense that the meat of the complaints is being kept from you in an attempt to be kind, but that you really want to know the full truth of why people (whether "a couple" or more) are dissatisfied with you. Because of your confident personality, she may be hesitant to come out with it. Try to assure her that you really just want the truth, and intend to go home to think it over before responding.
If she tells you the truth, thank her and leave. Do not get defensive and offer retorts about your extensive training, why you've picked certain pieces, etc. That defensiveness is not going to help your case, even if you're completely justified.
This could also be done over email, if you think it will help get the real truth out. If she tells you over email, sit on your hands for 3 days. Resist the urge to respond right away.
If you are told the truth behind the discontent, just really think it over. Think about if there's a kernel of truth to it. Approach it humbly at first, like your only job is to divine if there is any truth to the "real" complaints about you. When you get to that conclusion, think about any compromises or adjustments you can make to satisfy the complaints and also keep yourself involved in a meaningful way.
Then go back and continue the discussion and negotiations with the director. Good luck!
*I have a background similar to yours. Singers and first violinists can be very, very difficult to criticize. Just be aware of that.
Again, I am the “director,” and have been for quite a few years now. The woman in the official capacity complaining leads the committee about worship services. She likes to sing, but her very first performance experience ever was actually when she joined the choir I started. She was a very enthusiastic founding member. She was so enthusiastic in part because she “had always wanted to be in a choir,” but had never before done so (for whatever reason).
Lodestar was mentioning PC culture and the prevalence of SJWs in UU churches. In our UU church, the vast majority of the congregation lean liberal, but are definitely not full-blown SJW. However, there is a core group of about six or seven who are trying very hard to push us that way. I would say that this woman is the informal leader of this unofficial group. (I would also say that she is the warmest, more reasonable committed SJW I know, although I also realize that “warm, reasonable SJW” is a bit of an oxymoron.)
So, I think she and some others might be inwardly coining the expression “voice privilege” when it comes to me, I don’t know.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
