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Old 06-12-2008, 02:42 PM
 
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Lets everybody play the blame game here. The mom may have been too unassertive but she was clearly more supportive and probably much more caring than the father.

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Originally Posted by laysayfair View Post
I was thinking the same thing. Your mom is just as guilty if not more so than your dad. Why do you give your mother a pass?
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Old 06-12-2008, 02:50 PM
 
3,413 posts, read 6,441,924 times
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Originally Posted by artsyguy View Post
Lets everybody play the blame game here. The mom may have been too unassertive but she was clearly more supportive and probably much more caring than the father.
Are you sure about that? The mother has alot to answer for. Maybe she "hates" her father because she has made him bear the entire burden of keeping her idea of her mother "untainted". If she casts Dad entirely in the "Black hat" she never has to deal with any negative feelings about mom and what mom has done, not done and allowed to be done.
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Old 06-12-2008, 02:52 PM
 
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Sure that could happen. Who knows for sure though. The original problem could have been rooted in the mother. She hated her father and recreated the situation with her daughter.


Quote:
Originally Posted by laysayfair View Post
Are you sure about that? The mother has alot to answer for. Maybe she "hates" her father because she has made him bear the entire burden of keeping her idea of her mother "untainted". If she casts Dad entirely in the "Black hat" she never has to deal with any negative feelings about mom and what mom has done, not done and allowed to be done.
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Old 06-12-2008, 03:02 PM
 
Location: Up above the world so high!
45,270 posts, read 88,319,180 times
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REGARDLESS, of who did what and who deserves more "blame" - this young person needs help - and not the kind of help any of us can give. Though I think it would be nice if we could all just be supportive and wish her well. I'd also like to remind her that none of this is her fault - you don't get to pick your parents. Get some recommendations for a good therapist and get some help with all this.
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Old 06-12-2008, 03:02 PM
 
Location: Windsor, Vero Beach, FL
897 posts, read 2,569,154 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artsyguy View Post
Lets everybody play the blame game here. The mom may have been too unassertive but she was clearly more supportive and probably much more caring than the father.
Agreed as well - but to be entirely truthful, the mom shares some of that blame getting involved with a married man. Sometimes you just have to take the blinders off and through in the whole kitchen sink, if you will, to really fix the problem.

I had an issue that was eating me up for years, and solely blamed one person for the entire problem. A friend bluntly set me straight and told me that my tunnel vision (focusing in on one person and not all involved parties) was the key to solving my problem for good. My friend was right, I let it all out and everything became clearer and the problem as of today is non-existent.

Now while my problem was no where near as severe as the OP, using my friends advice helped me with this and a few other small incidences.

IMO, therapy is only needed if the person cannot funtion in everyday life. So if the poster's hate for father is so severe that life is not normal, therapy may be a good idea. I think too many people rely on therapy for mundane issues and, in turn, severly ill people wait too late for help.

Disclaimer - I am not a professional
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Old 06-12-2008, 03:13 PM
 
3,413 posts, read 6,441,924 times
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Originally Posted by GeminiGal View Post
Agreed as well - but to be entirely truthful, the mom shares some of that blame getting involved with a married man. Sometimes you just have to take the blinders off and through in the whole kitchen sink, if you will, to really fix the problem.

I had an issue that was eating me up for years, and solely blamed one person for the entire problem. A friend bluntly set me straight and told me that my tunnel vision (focusing in on one person and not all involved parties) was the key to solving my problem for good. My friend was right, I let it all out and everything became clearer and the problem as of today is non-existent.

Now while my problem was no where near as severe as the OP, using my friends advice helped me with this and a few other small incidences.

IMO, therapy is only needed if the person cannot funtion in everyday life. So if the poster's hate for father is so severe that life is not normal, therapy may be a good idea. I think too many people rely on therapy for mundane issues and, in turn, severly ill people wait too late for help.

Disclaimer - I am not a professional
I agree with you Geminii and had the same thing happen. I was fixated on this one person as the cause of my distress and when someone pointed out to me all the shared responsibility, especially my own, the world got bigger in an instant, I could breathe again and felt so much empathy for my former "enemy". I've never looked back since that day.
This help came from someone I didn't even know. She just put her finger on the shaky part of my story and it all came tumbling down.
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Old 06-12-2008, 03:28 PM
 
Location: in my imagination
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For what it is worth I feel damn proud of you man.You are strong enough that you followed your dream no matter and lucky to have a supportive mom.

I suppose in a sense you are lucky that you had your dad in your life somewhat,but I have known toxic people also and the best thing is to stay clear of them.

You may feel some bitterness but don't dwell on it otherwise it will bring you down,all in all I think you are doing alright.


good luck
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Old 06-12-2008, 03:30 PM
 
Location: State of Being
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I think our OP is a guy, isn't he? He referred to his dad not coming home to his son, I thought . . .

First of all, what OP is trying to do is find some resolution w/ his conflicting feelings. He has memories of his father (b/f he knew he was his father) that are pleasant. Then, some destructive incidents occurred and really affected this young man's feelings about his father - as well as himself. (Who am I if this guy is my dad???)

On top of it, his father did not support his dream of becoming a dentist, and is still disparaging about this milestone success of becoming a dentist.

We all want to feel our parents are proud of us . . . and it is very puzzling and hurtful when they aren't - especially when we have been "good people." And no doubt, this young man has been not only a good person, but a son that anyone should be proud of.

First of all, blame and fault and guilt are all destructive and so assigning blame, finding fault and feeling guilty take us nowhere but down into an abyss. So let's not even go there.

As adult children, we have to come to terms w/ things about our childhood that just were not that pleasant. Not everyone has a great childhood, LOL. Yes, this was an unusual situation, and yes, this young man had to deal w/ some things that he should never have been faced w/ at such a tender age (i.e., finding out about the circumstances of his birth, finding out a "friend" was really his bio-dad, finding out his father had hurt his mother by cheating, finding out bio-dad had fathered yet another child, etc). All these things are confusing for anyone at any age, but to have to face all that at such a young age - well - talk about making a person's head spin . . .

So now we are left w/ trust issues . . . and conflicting emotions.

All anyone can hope to do when caught up in a narrative like this is work towards healing. it doesn't really matter who did what to whom. Not in the end. Sure, there is plenty of blame to go around . . . but in the end, it is what it is!!! The circumstances of this young man's life are what they are!!! He did NOT make the decisions - his parents made decisions that affected him. Fair? No. But does it help to continue to feel angry about it? No. It may be necessary to work w/ all that anger for a while b/f one can progress on to distancing one's self from the chaos created by his parents. But really, in the end . . . even being angry won't get a person anywhere but depressed.

As for toxic . . . I am not so sure. For some reason, his dad feels compelled to put down his decision to become a dentist. Strange, right? Most of us would find that odd. After all, I would think most of us would be VERY PROUD if our sons became dentists!!! In fact, what parent would not be proud? Hmmmm. That tells us something about his dad. WHY is his dad not proud of him?

Sometimes, a parent can feel challenged and even castigated when a child is more successful than they are. Maybe it makes his father feel very very small that his son managed to reach a goal and stay committed to it - when his own father could not even be committed in his marriage. Maybe his father feels it somehow just points out what a lousy person he is for not being there when his son was young. Maybe he is embarrassed. Who knows? And does it really matter? All this young man knows is - his dad puts him down - for no good reason!!!!

But what to do about that??? Does it mean he should cut his father out of his life and label him "toxic?" Well, not necessarily. Maybe his father is acting out his own embarrassment about the way he has conducted HIS life. Maybe seeing his son be successful makes him feel bad about his own decisions. Maybe the father feels very humiliated and angry that he did divorce his first wife and marry his son's mother - and tried to be a good dad - and his son has rejected him. Doesn't matter if the dad did all sorts of things to break his son's trust!!! People see things from their own perspective. Maybe Dad thinks - wow - I tried to "make things right" w/ my son and this is how he rewards me for that? Acting like I am some horrible person and he is so much better than me now that he can call himself Dr???

We just never know how things get twisted around in someone else's head!!!!

But the point is . . . this young man has no clue how to resolve all this. Loves is right -going to a great therapist who can guide a journey towards resolution would be like lifting a huge burden off his shoulders!!!! But today, he came here and asked if any of us had thoughts on this subject.

So here is what I think. Love can transcend all sorts of hurts and injustices. That is what I know. And forgiveness is possible even when the the infractions are seemingly insurmountable. Our young man is not sure that he wants to forgive (and it is doubtful he will ever truly forget). However, it is possible to re-think one's history and find a new context . . . wh/ makes it all easier to deal with.

So here is my advice: Forgiveness does not mean one is condoning or forgetting the acts of the past. Forgiveness is what we do FOR OURSELVES to unburden . . . to let go of the baggage that is weighing us down . . . Coming to the place where one can forgive is a process - and a DECISION. Perhaps you are not ready to forgive at this point in your life. Perhaps you need to hear something from your father. You may never get an apology; he may feel he "did right" by you and your mom by marrying your mom and providing you with a home. So you need to think all this through. What do you really want to happen? Do you want your father to acknowledge you as a worthy person he is proud of? I just bet he already feels that way, but there has been so much water under the bridge, he is caught up in acting out his own humiliation at feeling rejection. Yes, you have on some level rejected your dad, even if only out of anger at his being less than truthful w/ you and embarrassing you and hurting you.

So the first step should be - decide what you want out of this . . . to find a way to construct a workable relationship w/ your dad? B. to find a way to distance yourself from your dad w/o feeling guilty about it? What do you really want?

Last edited by brokensky; 06-12-2008 at 03:35 PM.. Reason: misspell
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Old 06-12-2008, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
8,309 posts, read 34,303,061 times
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Forget about blame. Forget about love and hate. You have outgrown your parents and their drama. I can understand your confusion and angst but its time to let them go. Counseling may help but the healing will have to come from you either way.

Your mother will always be your mother and I suspect from your account, limited though it may be, that she has always tried to do what she thought was best for you. Right or wrong, she has been there for you, has she not? Regardless of how you feel about her or the judgements you have passed on her decisions, I can tell you for certain that you will never be sorry for being good to your mother. Do you think she did her best? If so, you have to forgive her. It will kill her if you don't.

Fathers are different, though. If your father doesn't want to behave like a grown-up you'll just have to shame him by being a better man and a better father than he was. Let him contemplate that in his twilight.

...Just my nickel...
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Old 06-12-2008, 04:16 PM
 
Location: Way up high
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OP-Don't feel bad at all. My father is a total tool.
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