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Old 07-30-2008, 09:43 AM
 
13,092 posts, read 13,652,414 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sierraAZ View Post
Now that they no longer do it, they start preaching. IMO, the reason behind this is that deep down they still WANT to do it! If whatever you have and/or do is sooo great, enjoy it and more power to you! Why do you need other parishioners...?!
If someone is whining to me endlessly about the alcoholics in their lives, I say "Al-Anon can help you with that" because it helped me when I was dealing with the very same problem. Same way I'd recommend a dentist or a mechanic if someone was troubled by toothache pain or a car that broke down.

Then it's up to them if they go or not.

But if they continue to whine about it repeatedly (without doing anything to improve their situation) I am not going to sit around and listen, I have better things to do with my time then take part in someone's endless drama.
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Old 07-30-2008, 09:53 AM
 
28,906 posts, read 46,638,972 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DimSumRaja View Post
if someone is upset and complains to their friends that their car doesn't start, their friends are likely to say, "hey go to a mechanic for help with that." If someone is frantic because there is blood gushing from their arm and they are complaining to their friends what problems this is causing in their life, they are likely to be told, "hey, go to a doctor for help with that"

if someone goes on and on and on (for instance over dozens of posts in this forum alone) about how bent out of shape they are over how the alcoholics in their life are behaving, they are likely to hear "hey, go to an Al-Anon meeting for help with that"

now if a person refuses to go to the mechanic, or to the doctor, or to an Al-Anon meeting, or whatever, for the very thing that is causing them upset and trouble in their life, choosing instead to stay stuck with their upset and drama and complaining and whining about how uncomfortable this is making their life, well, if they are refusing to go where there is help to fix the problem.....that is their choice. to stay stuck in the drama and upset, or go get help.
Total, absolute nonsense, cribbed from pop psychology books. Yet it doesn't seem to help your reading comprehension skills. We're not the ones with the problem. She is the one with the problem, and has rebuffed family members who have gone to her about this issue.

So now, in predictable fashion, you're throwing the problem onto my shoulders and everybody else's, advocating our camping out at AA meetings to cope with this one family member. So should all 35 members of the family go? And what possible purpose would this serve?

And, in an admirable bit of verbal jujitsu, it's all our fault for leading healthy, well-adjusted lives. And despite the fact we don't have dependancy issues, despite the fact that our family is a well-adjusted bunch, my expressing annoyance at a SIL for wrecking yet another dinner party is somehow or another a character flaw on my part. I think you really need to get a grip.

Being a typical AA alum, you want to suck everybody into the program, seeing it as the typical end-all, be-all elixir for whatever neuroses one has. Ticked off at your dad for not buying you a car at 16? Go to AA. Mad because the neighbor's dog won't quit barking? Head on down to the AA meeting. Don't particularly like your job? Why, AA has got the ready-made solution for you. Just come to our meetings, talk about yourself and your problems non-stop.

It's like some weird cult, except you're not all banging tambourines at the airport and selling daisies. I'll give you that.
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Old 07-30-2008, 10:02 AM
 
Location: syracuse ny
2,412 posts, read 4,509,007 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cricket_factor View Post
[QUOTEoptiflex]

AA meetings can be fun lots of times, but they ARE support groups for people trying to better themselves and their life situation. I haven't seen the "outsiders in droves" phenomena, but then, I haven't been to Syracuse, New York, either.
We have open meetings here too. Once a week usually, for a daily meeting. What's disturbing is her becoming practically enraged when questioned or talked to about it. That's not very humble or getting out of self. Anybody can verbally say they have improved, gotten spiritual, gotten help, it's their actions that say the most.

This smacks of turning AA into ones religion and looking to convert people and get them to go to ones church. We are not a church. We are a program thats sole purpose is to help ALCOHOLICS. Many other spiritual programs and things are designed to help people with myriads of other problems. We have no outside issues, we cannot help others with problems that don't relate to ALCOHOL. We have allowed cross addicted people to join, as long as they keep their problems discussed AS THEY RELATE to their alcoholism. And We pretty much state this at every meeting.
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Old 07-30-2008, 10:06 AM
 
28,906 posts, read 46,638,972 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by optiflex View Post
We have open meetings here too. Once a week usually, for a daily meeting. What's disturbing is her becoming practically enraged when questioned or talked to about it. That's not very humble or getting out of self. Anybody can verbally say they have improved, gotten spiritual, gotten help, it's their actions that say the most.

This smacks of turning AA into ones religion and looking to convert people and get them to go to ones church. We are not a church. We are a program thats sole purpose is to help ALCOHOLICS. Many other spiritual programs and things are designed to help people with myriads of other problems. We have no outside issues, we cannot help others with problems that don't relate to ALCOHOL. We have allowed cross addicted people to join, as long as they keep their problems discussed AS THEY RELATE to their alcoholism. And We pretty much state this at every meeting.
THANK YOU. That's exactly what I'm talking about. So why on earth is DimSum trying to drag our entire family into the meetings?
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Old 07-30-2008, 10:14 AM
 
Location: The #1 sunshine state, Arizona.
12,172 posts, read 15,429,291 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
Be that as it may, it really throws a damper into every dinner party, get together, conversation, and social gathering. I think the people who go through this should, at some point, learn awareness.
You can't change the way people act, you can only hange the way you react. So next time you see you S-I-L coming, head for the nearest gin mill!
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Old 07-30-2008, 10:22 AM
 
28,906 posts, read 46,638,972 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zonababe View Post
You can't change the way people act, you can only hange the way you react. So next time you see you S-I-L coming, head for the nearest gin mill!
Really. Too bad we can't stop asking her to things.
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Old 07-30-2008, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
1,577 posts, read 2,384,879 times
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Quote:
if someone goes on and on and on (for instance over dozens of posts in this forum alone) about how bent out of shape they are over how the alcoholics in their life are behaving, they are likely to hear "hey, go to an Al-Anon meeting for help with that"
I see him recommending Al-Anon which is not AA. That's like saying the American Dental Association is the same thing as the American Medical Association.

Quote:
Look, it's very simple. How do we get an obviously fragile (Which is what she is, believe me) and defensive person to not babble endlessly about her addiction. At the dinner party in question, she managed to interrupt the flow of conversation several times just to talk about that, and then she went on and on about her Arbonne.
I like to keep things simple as well............ stop inviting her to your dinner parties and the problem is solved. This is obviously a big issue for the family and maybe they need to only include her in major holiday celebrations so that they aren't bothered by all her drama.

You have two choices, deal with her as she is, or stop having her involved in your social life. Only you can decide which option is most tolerable for you.
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Old 07-30-2008, 10:57 AM
 
Location: syracuse ny
2,412 posts, read 4,509,007 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
Total, absolute nonsense, cribbed from pop psychology books. Yet it doesn't seem to help your reading comprehension skills. We're not the ones with the problem. She is the one with the problem, and has rebuffed family members who have gone to her about this issue.

So now, in predictable fashion, you're throwing the problem onto my shoulders and everybody else's, advocating our camping out at AA meetings to cope with this one family member. So should all 35 members of the family go? And what possible purpose would this serve?

And, in an admirable bit of verbal jujitsu, it's all our fault for leading healthy, well-adjusted lives. And despite the fact we don't have dependancy issues, despite the fact that our family is a well-adjusted bunch, my expressing annoyance at a SIL for wrecking yet another dinner party is somehow or another a character flaw on my part. I think you really need to get a grip.

Being a typical AA alum, you want to suck everybody into the program, seeing it as the typical end-all, be-all elixir for whatever neuroses one has. Ticked off at your dad for not buying you a car at 16? Go to AA. Mad because the neighbor's dog won't quit barking? Head on down to the AA meeting. Don't particularly like your job? Why, AA has got the ready-made solution for you. Just come to our meetings, talk about yourself and your problems non-stop.

It's like some weird cult, except you're not all banging tambourines at the airport and selling daisies. I'll give you that.
Hmmmm we ARE people who allowed a substance abuse to rule our lives. When we tried to stop using that, many many times we look for a new all encompassing thing. I've seen this happen also in churches too. They become totally into their church, and eventually, sadly, they burn out

In AA we have what may be an abused principle. "Live and let live" what becomes abused is we don't call people on their crap. We tend to admire "clean time", as opposed to "good clean time". From 1988-2003 I did not drink or smoke. I went through such a terrible detox it scared me straight. But it didn't make me a good person. I had enabling, people said back then I was much better, but Isure could annoy people, like your sisteer-in-law. I quit for my family, my fear, not for any kind of SELF IMPROVEMENT. I often say to people now, if I didn't have HOPE that my life was going to get any better now, I'd head for the nearest bar! If I thought I walked alone, why bother? I totally failed at life, to simply not drink would now be unbearable to me. I believe I was spared, because I broke down and asked for help sitting in my truck, in tears on my way to what I thought was the only way out. I instead ended up hitting the curb hard in front of an AA hall. I went right instead of left out of the parking lot because a car appeared behind me in a hurry and wouldn't stop beaping. I sometimes share that some guys road rage saved my life. I imeadiatly wanted to turn around before I lost the courage to kill myself. My power steering didn't work and when I went to turn it went hard into the curb. There was a door there, an unmarked door, and I went in. Within a few hours I had a tremendous feeling of warmth and safety, HOPE. This happened within minutes of crying out to god for forgiveness for what I was about to do, but I don't see an alternative. To me it's a miricle, my burning bush moment. To others I'm sure it could be a strange set of circumstances. But to me it was like a cosmic mouse trap was sprung, that had been waiting for me to push the first dominoe. Some describe it as "hitting rock bottom"

After working through the steps I started to realize I'm never alone. I'm never getting away with anything because he ALWAYS sees. I still screw up, I still have defects of character. But I try, and it's my belief that's all he requires. I decided this will be my life. And our main objective is to help Alcoholics THAT WANT help. I don't need to recruit,, god will put them before me. I cannot save the world, my family. I'm not Moses. I need to examine myself, and my purposes in a daily appraisal. And maybe I can aid god in helping others, like he allowed others to help me.

You sound like a pretty honest and caring person. You cannot make yourself responcible for your sister-in-law. She may need to go out again. You don't need to hang out with her and endure her crap.By doing so, you are enabling her in her new found addiction. You can say to yourseelf before sshe comes over, When she starts in, we're going to firmly tell her if she want's to talk AA...GO TO AN AA MEETING. We love you, but you need tto stop thumping us or you cannot stay. In a way, she is abusing you, and using a crutch to do so. I have a daughter whose wild. I can only try to become somebody she'll admire enough to ask for help. And if and when she does, try to turn her over to ladies who can. Not try to be somthing I never have been, Mr Dad, Mr. knowitall. I have a huge ego, and must realize I don't deserve the praise I sometimes get, just as I don't deserve my inventory taken...SOMETIMES. If I do start thinking I'm all that, I greatly run the risk of TOTAL FAILURE. I must always remember I didn't save myself, GOD saved me. Who the heck am I to think I can save anybody else?
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Old 07-30-2008, 11:42 AM
 
28,906 posts, read 46,638,972 times
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Thanks for the honest and reflective reply Opti. I'm not trashing AA at all. What I'm hammering on is the impulse in some, my SIL most notably, who become evangelists for it, to the obvious exasperation of everybody around them.
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Old 07-30-2008, 12:21 PM
 
Location: syracuse ny
2,412 posts, read 4,509,007 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
Thanks for the honest and reflective reply Opti. I'm not trashing AA at all. What I'm hammering on is the impulse in some, my SIL most notably, who become evangelists for it, to the obvious exasperation of everybody around them.

Like the toby keith song..we got winners, we got losers, chain smokers and boozers.

We try to allow anyone with a problem w alcohol in. We have sort of "watered" down our original concept. We had a recorded 75 percent success rate IN THE BEGINNING, and we like to say we have a 100 percent success rate for people who adopt continual step work...here's the "sobering" number...of the 2,000,000 regular meeting attenders, we estimate some 95 percent don't nowadays.

We allow a big majority of people to be "nudged" to AA instead of "wanting" to attend. The idea was we could only help people who "wanted" help. And when people want something, instead of being told they of course tend to respond better. So I listen to tons of stories of people meandering around in AA for years and years and years.. But there are a bunch of these people I know who eventually "GOT IT" too..Andd because of those people, we allow people who don't eveen want too be there to stay, hoping they will "get it"

As I sobered I started to notice I didn't want to "hang out" with the entire crowd simply because they were members, but the "winners" Winners are people you try to tell a stupid problem to and they start calling you on your own bs almost all the time, but in a nice non angry way, an uplifting way, and seem very happy content and they do listen. Unfrtunetly...THEY ARE NOT COMMON. They cut you off and say tthings like I already heard your problem, you're repeating it again. Are you still frettn on that? Did you pray on that? Did you talk to your sponcer? And eventually you learn to talk about other subjects than your own pity party, but also know if you're truly baffled they will offer clear good advice. So yes, I went through a period like hers myself. All I wanted to talk about was my garbage, and my older buddy doesn't want to know about why this movie relates to AA, just was it a good movie? Sheeesh! LOL

Winners seem balanced on everything. You never see them in heated arguements over anything.. Even stuff that would make a normal person scrream they just shrug their shoulders..I WANT THAT EVENTUALLY IN MY LIFE! You get there by hanging with them not telling them all YOUR vast knowledge,, but just listening and maybe they'll ask you a question relating to something you know about that they don't, once a year or so. Have a great day!
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