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Old 12-24-2008, 02:15 AM
 
Location: MN
314 posts, read 648,268 times
Reputation: 336

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Quote:
Originally Posted by one_life View Post
Sometime it takes life changing events like ill health of a family member or a loss of a loved one to someone else or to something else
People don't change in a radical way until something in their life makes change necessary. Thankfully most people never experience that level of pain. Growth is different than change and yes, those who experience the world have more growth.
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Old 12-24-2008, 02:20 AM
 
Location: Cosmic Consciousness
3,871 posts, read 15,491,087 times
Reputation: 2637
Quote:
Originally Posted by Public_Newsense View Post
Good post and about as close as I've seen to describing it, especially "They can't not change". I've described it many times as this feeling that I'm trying to break out of myself from deep inside--almost an insatiable desire that you can't put your finger on. All you know for sure is an intentional change is coming. You must have experienced it yourself to get this close, allforcats, huh?
BEAUTIFULLY described, PN!! Yes, that thrilling "insatiable desire" to know more, become more, find more, create more, get beyond -- that is almost a push from inside the solar plexus.

The Oversoul, the Spirit of PN, singing the siren song to become......
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Old 12-24-2008, 02:32 AM
 
Location: Texas
525 posts, read 833,365 times
Reputation: 316
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertpolyglot View Post
I was thinking about how people I've known over the years have changed. The reality is that they haven't. I went to my 20 year high school reunion, never to go to one again. People were the same, cliques included, though 20 years older.

I've heard it said that 90% of your personality, traits and even self-esteem are sort of "locked in" by the time one finishes high school, so that would be 18 years old. Personally, I think I've changed more than most other people because I undertook more things (career and education changes) and moved to new places that challenged my "comfort zone."

So, do you think MOST people change? My "vote" is NO.

uuuuuuuuu yes now that i've had a couple glasses of wine-- I can feel it== yes I am CHANGING! YES! people DO change!!!!
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Old 12-24-2008, 06:17 AM
 
Location: Pinellas Park, FL
648 posts, read 1,492,084 times
Reputation: 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertpolyglot View Post
I was thinking about how people I've known over the years have changed. The reality is that they haven't. I went to my 20 year high school reunion, never to go to one again. People were the same, cliques included, though 20 years older.

I've heard it said that 90% of your personality, traits and even self-esteem are sort of "locked in" by the time one finishes high school, so that would be 18 years old. Personally, I think I've changed more than most other people because I undertook more things (career and education changes) and moved to new places that challenged my "comfort zone."

So, do you think MOST people change? My "vote" is NO.
I guess it all depends on what has happened in your life. But I'm going to say no, most people do not change.
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Old 12-24-2008, 06:51 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 30,676,394 times
Reputation: 14582
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertpolyglot View Post
I was thinking about how people I've known over the years have changed. The reality is that they haven't. I went to my 20 year high school reunion, never to go to one again. People were the same, cliques included, though 20 years older.

I've heard it said that 90% of your personality, traits and even self-esteem are sort of "locked in" by the time one finishes high school, so that would be 18 years old. Personally, I think I've changed more than most other people because I undertook more things (career and education changes) and moved to new places that challenged my "comfort zone."

So, do you think MOST people change? My "vote" is NO.
My vote would also be no in spite of also having changed a lot. Most people I know never moved beyond high school because they didn't challenge their boundaries. My suspicion is that we stop changing when we stop learning. Many stopped in high school. Some stopped in college. Some never stopped.
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Old 12-24-2008, 07:00 AM
 
Location: Everybody is going to hurt you, you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for-B Marley
9,506 posts, read 17,757,872 times
Reputation: 9345
Quote:
Originally Posted by future1 View Post
People don't change in a radical way until something in their life makes change necessary. Thankfully most people never experience that level of pain. Growth is different than change and yes, those who experience the world have more growth.
Sometimes that's true. I know it was true with me regarding much of my change. But sometimes it was just a restlessness in me. True about growth being different than change. I had to grapple with that for a moment--thought it was just semantics but you're right; you can't have growth without change but you can have change without growth.
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Old 12-24-2008, 07:03 AM
 
Location: Everybody is going to hurt you, you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for-B Marley
9,506 posts, read 17,757,872 times
Reputation: 9345
Quote:
Originally Posted by allforcats View Post
BEAUTIFULLY described, PN!! Yes, that thrilling "insatiable desire" to know more, become more, find more, create more, get beyond -- that is almost a push from inside the solar plexus.

The Oversoul, the Spirit of PN, singing the siren song to become......
Or just to overcome. Amazing, aren't I?
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Old 12-24-2008, 07:14 AM
 
Location: West Texas
2,441 posts, read 5,362,097 times
Reputation: 3107
Yes. Of course people change. The only people who don't change are those that fight and resist against it (and yes, there are those people). But even they find that change is inevitable. How much change is affected by one's intelligence, and more specifically their wisdom to apply what they have learned.

I also agree with the many who have said that those that move around a lot seem to be the ones that change the most.

Growing up, I lived in several cities in and around the projects of San Francisco. I was always fighting or stealing. In fact, when I joined the Navy in 1982, I couldn't originally get the career field I wanted (Intelligence) because I had a juvenile record and probably wouldn't have gotten a security clearance. But, after I turned 18, they informed me that I could (in CA, juvenile records are sealed when the individual turns 18). And, for the 20 year Naval career subsequent to that, I had not stolen or fought (other than necessarily - like some locals in a foreign city try to fight us for just being there). I've learned to walk away from fighting when I can. I have learned that stealing things affects more than just the person you stole from. And I have applied that wisdom to change my life.

When I was 19, I was in an affair with a married woman. When all was said and done, I reflected on it and realized how devastating it was for more than just her and I. And, learning from that, I vowed never to do that again (and I haven't).

I don't know what scares me more, people that haven't changed, or those that think it's not possible. There must be a lot of perfect people out there if there's no change. Otherwise, we should constantly be changing, softening our hard edges, learning from our mistakes. Those little life's experiences we learn from, and strive not to repeat, are changes.

Yes. We change. If we don't, we must consider ourselves perfect.
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Old 12-24-2008, 07:23 AM
 
Location: Everybody is going to hurt you, you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for-B Marley
9,506 posts, read 17,757,872 times
Reputation: 9345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rathagos View Post
Yes. Of course people change. The only people who don't change are those that fight and resist against it (and yes, there are those people). But even they find that change is inevitable. How much change is affected by one's intelligence, and more specifically their wisdom to apply what they have learned.

I also agree with the many who have said that those that move around a lot seem to be the ones that change the most.

Growing up, I lived in several cities in and around the projects of San Francisco. I was always fighting or stealing. In fact, when I joined the Navy in 1982, I couldn't originally get the career field I wanted (Intelligence) because I had a juvenile record and probably wouldn't have gotten a security clearance. But, after I turned 18, they informed me that I could (in CA, juvenile records are sealed when the individual turns 18). And, for the 20 year Naval career subsequent to that, I had not stolen or fought (other than necessarily - like some locals in a foreign city try to fight us for just being there). I've learned to walk away from fighting when I can. I have learned that stealing things affects more than just the person you stole from. And I have applied that wisdom to change my life.

When I was 19, I was in an affair with a married woman. When all was said and done, I reflected on it and realized how devastating it was for more than just her and I. And, learning from that, I vowed never to do that again (and I haven't).

I don't know what scares me more, people that haven't changed, or those that think it's not possible. There must be a lot of perfect people out there if there's no change. Otherwise, we should constantly be changing, softening our hard edges, learning from our mistakes. Those little life's experiences we learn from, and strive not to repeat, are changes.

Yes. We change. If we don't, we must consider ourselves perfect
.
Wow! Very well said. I wish I were this articulate. And good for you on all your positive changes.
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Old 12-24-2008, 08:31 AM
 
28,906 posts, read 46,631,923 times
Reputation: 46005
You know, I think most people do in terms of how they approach other people. Experience teaches one that you're not always right, that people not like you still deserve your respect, and that one should listen before one talks. All you have to do is compare one's behavior as a moody, hormone-addled teenager to one's behavior as a 35-year-old to realize that change in behavior can be quite significant.

Yet those are changes in approach, the tactical business of life. The harder question is if one's core personality changes. I would have to say changes there are much rarer. If you are self-centered when young, you are typically self-centered later on. For so much of your behavior is imprinted onto your genetic code and by the way you were raised by your parents. In that sense, people whom I have known since birth are behaving very much the same in their 40s and 50s as they did when they were children or teenagers.

A large part of this has to do with self-awareness, or the lack of it in most people. Sure, we all are reflective from time to time, but very few people are truly objective about their own behavior. All you have to do is look at some of the strange positions defended by people on this very forum. All kinds of unethical, irrational, and inconsiderate conduct will be defended--all because they refuse to see the effects they're having on the people around them. In Freudian terms, I guess they would be defined by their Id and not their Superego.

So, for somebody to really change on the inside, it requires an enormous event in one's life, usually cataclysmic in nature, that forces that person to examine the very foundation of their beliefs and their worldview, their internal operating system if you will. Because unless one really scrutinizes those core principles that drive behavior, then internal and fundamental change in character is next to impossible.
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