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Old 08-20-2009, 08:44 AM
 
1,919 posts, read 3,963,148 times
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What do you do?

Meaning, he/she is still a good friend. Has helped you in the past, unselfishly. Has had you over his/her home for dinners. Gone drinking. Invited you to his/her home for special events, get-togethers. Etc. Been a good friend, overall.

But, you notice over time he/she is capable of shady behavior. Dishonest in some ways. Exaggerates. Not a straight talker. Little things that add up and make you go "hmmmm" and you feel you can't really fully trust this person. And you see this person guilty of, or complicit/tacit in, activities of questionable morality.

Your choice would be...

1. Go along as if nothing happened

2. Back off; you're still friends, but you don't expose yourself to him/her as much

3. Summarily cut the friendship off
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Old 08-20-2009, 08:45 AM
 
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Be cautious. But a person who is dishonest in small ways will be dishonest in big ways when it matters the most.
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Old 08-20-2009, 08:53 AM
 
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oh i HATE when this happens. i feel like i am on the spot and have to choose. i have a hard time being around people once i find out something is off. i guess if i must, i will be around them, but limit my exposer as much as i can.
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Old 08-20-2009, 09:06 AM
 
1,919 posts, read 3,963,148 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
Be cautious. But a person who is dishonest in small ways will be dishonest in big ways when it matters the most.
Good point.

I am not a person of flawless moral character by any means; however, what I have taken issue with regarding this specific friend is his attitude towards adultery.

John has a lovely wife, but on occasions we went out drinking with "the boys," he is no different from single men when talking about women's beauty. Now granted, a man doesn't stop being a man on his wedding day. It's OK to look as long as nothing more happens. But John's brother-in-law, Drew, who has come out with us in the past, has been guilty of adultery. John told me once that Drew has been with call girls in the area. The striking thing about when John told me wasn't that Drew actually did this; rather, that Drew's adventure wasn't that expensive. John's voice or tone contained no condemnation, no anger, no disapproval. It was all very matter-of-fact.

In recent time as I've pulled away from John, although we're still good friends, I've made it clear I disapprove of extramarital affairs. I think this is the reason John has never admitted to me that he's done this (I don't know that he has and have no proof, so I have to go by his word). But I think that it's something not beyond John. John went on a foreign trip once alone, and he claims he did nothing extramarital. But he did say that he went to a bar w/ his local buddies and if he'd had more time, he could've seduced one of the waitresses. And, another time, we were at a bar with a 3rd friend. An attractive young lady I recognized, who is in her late 20s, came over to chat with John. I knew her as a former bartender at another bar we had often been at. She gave him her number. I asked him if his wife would be cool with that. He said, "are you crazy?"

I didn't ask John how he'd feel if his wife received and accepted the phone number of a handsome young man 10 years younger than her, because I had a feeling I knew he wouldn't like it - both the scenario & me asking the question.

One of the most unforgettable words I've read on CD is that if a person is willing to cheat on his/her spouse, there's nothing to stop him/her from cheating a friend. And it made so much sense. After I read that I completely lost any desire to be a close friend of Drew (luckily we were never close to start with) and I became much warier of John.

There have been other things John has done to illustrate what I qualify as "shadiness." They've added up, and I've decided to maintain our friendship, but to keep a distance. It's been gradual; I've spent much less time with him this year than I had done up to this time in 2008.

It really is sad when people act this way.
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Old 08-20-2009, 09:16 AM
 
28,905 posts, read 46,762,541 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprawling_Homeowner View Post
Good point.

I am not a person of flawless moral character by any means; however, what I have taken issue with regarding this specific friend is his attitude towards adultery.

John has a lovely wife, but on occasions we went out drinking with "the boys," he is no different from single men when talking about women's beauty. Now granted, a man doesn't stop being a man on his wedding day. It's OK to look as long as nothing more happens. But John's brother-in-law, Drew, who has come out with us in the past, has been guilty of adultery. John told me once that Drew has been with call girls in the area. The striking thing about when John told me wasn't that Drew actually did this; rather, that Drew's adventure wasn't that expensive. John's voice or tone contained no condemnation, no anger, no disapproval. It was all very matter-of-fact.

In recent time as I've pulled away from John, although we're still good friends, I've made it clear I disapprove of extramarital affairs. I think this is the reason John has never admitted to me that he's done this (I don't know that he has and have no proof, so I have to go by his word). But I think that it's something not beyond John. John went on a foreign trip once alone, and he claims he did nothing extramarital. But he did say that he went to a bar w/ his local buddies and if he'd had more time, he could've seduced one of the waitresses. And, another time, we were at a bar with a 3rd friend. An attractive young lady I recognized, who is in her late 20s, came over to chat with John. I knew her as a former bartender at another bar we had often been at. She gave him her number. I asked him if his wife would be cool with that. He said, "are you crazy?"

I didn't ask John how he'd feel if his wife received and accepted the phone number of a handsome young man 10 years younger than her, because I had a feeling I knew he wouldn't like it - both the scenario & me asking the question.

One of the most unforgettable words I've read on CD is that if a person is willing to cheat on his/her spouse, there's nothing to stop him/her from cheating a friend. And it made so much sense. After I read that I completely lost any desire to be a close friend of Drew (luckily we were never close to start with) and I became much warier of John.

There have been other things John has done to illustrate what I qualify as "shadiness." They've added up, and I've decided to maintain our friendship, but to keep a distance. It's been gradual; I've spent much less time with him this year than I had done up to this time in 2008.

It really is sad when people act this way.
Well, there is such a thing as people being in their cups and saying dumb things. I was out with a longtime buddy on night a few weeks ago, and he had a few and began flirting with the bartender. Mind you, I'm not talking playful banter, either. She basically invited us to go with her to another place after her shift. I smelled trouble and begged off, but my friend kept saying, "C'mon, let's go." I said, "No, I'm driving, and I'm not going." He called me the next day to say thanks.
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Old 08-20-2009, 09:19 AM
 
Location: My Private Island
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I think you are doing the right thing by keeping your distance. It doesn't seem as though John places much value on his marriage. It would make me wonder if you had a significant other/wife, would he try to put the moves on her?
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Old 08-20-2009, 09:19 AM
 
Location: Some place very cold
5,500 posts, read 20,076,918 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprawling_Homeowner View Post
What do you do?

Meaning, he/she is still a good friend. Has helped you in the past, unselfishly. Has had you over his/her home for dinners. Gone drinking. Invited you to his/her home for special events, get-togethers. Etc. Been a good friend, overall.

But, you notice over time he/she is capable of shady behavior. Dishonest in some ways. Exaggerates. Not a straight talker. Little things that add up and make you go "hmmmm" and you feel you can't really fully trust this person. And you see this person guilty of, or complicit/tacit in, activities of questionable morality.

Your choice would be...

1. Go along as if nothing happened

2. Back off; you're still friends, but you don't expose yourself to him/her as much

3. Summarily cut the friendship off
Most people are a little shady and a LOT of people live double lives. If she makes you uncomfortable, simply don't spend as much time with her. But i don't believe in cutting people off for good. It pays to stay in friendly contact with people and have a lot of friends. Don't get too hung up on any one person.
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Old 08-20-2009, 09:21 AM
 
22,769 posts, read 26,233,440 times
Reputation: 14558
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprawling_Homeowner View Post
What do you do?

Meaning, he/she is still a good friend. Has helped you in the past, unselfishly. Has had you over his/her home for dinners. Gone drinking. Invited you to his/her home for special events, get-togethers. Etc. Been a good friend, overall.

But, you notice over time he/she is capable of shady behavior. Dishonest in some ways. Exaggerates. Not a straight talker. Little things that add up and make you go "hmmmm" and you feel you can't really fully trust this person. And you see this person guilty of, or complicit/tacit in, activities of questionable morality.

Your choice would be...

1. Go along as if nothing happened

2. Back off; you're still friends, but you don't expose yourself to him/her as much

3. Summarily cut the friendship off
4. Make the person aware of the shady aspects of their character, if they aren't already. Don't pile on them, bring up their good qualities if need be, but make it clear that isn't how you operate. Gauge their interest and aptitude in improving their character, reconsider the cost/benefit of what they bring to the table in the first place.

So set boundaries for what you won't put up with, and at the same time put the ball in their court, and proceed from there.

I don't like the idea of sitting back and letting it happen, like a pushover. I also don't think it is morally right to cut them off, if they're struggling to improve.

and..uh.. just read some more of this thread. Not real clear on why he's shady. Because his brother-in-law went to see a hooker? Not following you.

Last edited by le roi; 08-20-2009 at 09:42 AM..
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Old 08-20-2009, 09:23 AM
 
28,905 posts, read 46,762,541 times
Reputation: 46039
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof Woof Woof! View Post
Most people are a little shady and a LOT of people live double lives. If she makes you uncomfortable, simply don't spend as much time with her. But i don't believe in cutting people off for good. It pays to stay in friendly contact with people and have a lot of friends. Don't get too hung up on any one person.
Well, I might amend that to state that most people have committed lapses in a moment of weakness. I'd like to say that I was perfectly upright in my life, but looking back, I've said and done some things that I would do anything to fix.
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Old 08-20-2009, 09:25 AM
 
1,919 posts, read 3,963,148 times
Reputation: 1523
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
Well, there is such a thing as people being in their cups and saying dumb things. I was out with a longtime buddy on night a few weeks ago, and he had a few and began flirting with the bartender. Mind you, I'm not talking playful banter, either. She basically invited us to go with her to another place after her shift. I smelled trouble and begged off, but my friend kept saying, "C'mon, let's go." I said, "No, I'm driving, and I'm not going." He called me the next day to say thanks.
Thing with John, he's way too clever to fall for a dumb moment. It's one thing if an otherwise harmless person gets caught in the emotion of the moment. It's another if a person displays a pattern of such behavior.

John was drinking with me, but sober, when the ex-bartender came to give him her number. She knew he was married. She didn't care, and neither did he. Had this been strictly a "friendship," John should've had no problems telling his wife.

And once, John, Drew, a 3rd guy, and I went to a bar. We stayed up extremely late and had a few women sit with us. Lots of alcohol flowed and things got touchy. We returned home by 4AM. The 3 of them 'agreed' that if anything happened, we were at Hooters watching sports.

That is why I decided to back off, amidst other reasons (situations where his shadiness and dishonesty towards me were rather clear). If he's willing to deceive his wife, there's nothing to stop him deceiving me; and, I refused to be an instrument of deceit.
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