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View Poll Results: Which second tier NC metro has the best chance of coming first tier?
Asheville 15 27.27%
Fayetteville 9 16.36%
Hickory 7 12.73%
Wilmington 24 43.64%
Voters: 55. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-18-2020, 08:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
Charlotte and Raleigh are the top tier NC cities. Then its Greensboro, Durham, Winston. Then it's Fayetteville and Asheville, maybe Wilmington...

For damn sure it's not Hickory or Greenville. It's one thing to say someone prefers somewhere over Fayetteville, but those cities are substantially smaller than Fayetteville with substantially less offerings. It was embarrassing for OP to lump Asheville/Fayetteville with Hickory (and/or Greenville)...

In the spirit of the OP, NC metros go:

I. Charlotte, Triangle
II. Triad
III. Asheville, Fayetteville, Wilmington (?)

That's 70% of North Carolina's population right there, everybody else is in a pile after that...
Tier # 3 should include only Wilmington and Asheville. Fayetteville is Tier # 4, only because of the military base. Hickory is unranked.
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Old 03-18-2020, 08:47 PM
 
Location: Hickory, NC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armourereric View Post
Hickory's MSA behaves like the Penninsula in Tidewater VA in that you have 4 distinct nodes of population that will never cooperate or coordinate with one another. I do not foresee Morganton surpassing Hickory anytime soon, but Hickory is in decline and Morganton is in growth in economic power.
I think you'll see in the upcoming Census results that Hickory is growing, and doing so faster than Morganton.
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Old 03-19-2020, 06:17 AM
 
Location: South Raleigh areas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adavi215 View Post
These are the growth percentages for each area since 2001 according to data from BEA:
Asheville: 39.8% 2001 GDP: $9.615 billion 2008 GDP: $13.437
Fayetteville: 62.6% 2001 GDP: $9.613 billion 2008 GDP: $15.632
Hickory: 13.7% 2001 GDP: $10.336 billion 2008 Gdp: $11.755
Wilmington 42.7% 2001 GDP: $9.453 billion 2008: $13.494

Hickory in 2001 lead Wilmington, Asheville, and Fayetteville only to have all three surprass it. Much to my surprise, Fayetteville is starting to pull away from the group.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Raleigh View Post
Tier # 3 should include only Wilmington and Asheville. Fayetteville is Tier # 4, only because of the military base. Hickory is unranked.
I copied an old quote with yours because it ties into where I'm about to go...

You say Fayetteville doesn't belong in a class with Wilmington and Asheville because of deep-rooted Carolina bias, not based on anything tangible. Fayetteville still has the largest core city population of the three (and would be without it '00s annexations), the second largest metro of the three, and the largest economy of the three...

Just for ****s and giggles I included Hickory and Greenville since they are oft-mentioned in this thread. Here's where all five stand in GDP as of '18:

Fayetteville 21.756 (+4.05% from '17, +15.27% from '10)
Asheville 20.332 (+5.86%, +41.85%)
Hickory 15.69 (+4.29%, +22.7%)
Wilmington 15.225 (+5.68%, +43.62%)
Greenville 8.838 (+2.62%, +29.33%)

All of these cities are outpacing Fayetteville in growth, and yet Fayetteville is still the largest of the group (still 43% larger than Wilmington and 39% larger than Hickory). None of these cities are close to Fayetteville, in fact, here's a fun fact, if Wilmington maintained its economic growth for the next 8 years as it did for 2010-2018------>which we know it won't, because of the impending recession---->it still would trail Fayetteville at the 2026 GDP numbers (Fay around $25b and Wil around $22b)...

Same thing with MSA population, if both maintained their current trajectories for the following 8 years, Fayetteville would be at ~409k and Wil at ~340k...

Wilmington is the city of the AV/Fay/Wil group that should be argued as not included, not the other way around. It is significantly smaller than both and feels the part...

Greenville and Hickory also shouldn't be included in the same tier, but you'd have to argue Wilmington over both and Hickory over Greenville. The Greenville stanning on here is weird, that place is a step up from a one stoplight town, in no way is it deserving of any comparison to Fayetteville...

You guys have me in here defending Fayetteville, which I'm not the biggest fan of myself, but I've learned over the years that my non-Carolina eyes give me a better perspective of how to rate these cities than if I was a bred Carolinian, you guys have a notoriously biased perspective of how you view your cities (all of them). Fayetteville is a Tier III NC city. Solidly. And probably leading that group of two (or three) cities. Asheville and Wilmington appeal more to most people on this website, not a surprise, yet then you go to these cities and objectively speaking they aren't offering most, if any, things on a higher scale than Fayetteville to warrant higher value placement in the Carolina pecking order...
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Old 03-19-2020, 09:48 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
3,570 posts, read 4,096,068 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
I copied an old quote with yours because it ties into where I'm about to go...

You say Fayetteville doesn't belong in a class with Wilmington and Asheville because of deep-rooted Carolina bias, not based on anything tangible. Fayetteville still has the largest core city population of the three (and would be without it '00s annexations), the second largest metro of the three, and the largest economy of the three...

Just for ****s and giggles I included Hickory and Greenville since they are oft-mentioned in this thread. Here's where all five stand in GDP as of '18:

Fayetteville 21.756 (+4.05% from '17, +15.27% from '10)
Asheville 20.332 (+5.86%, +41.85%)
Hickory 15.69 (+4.29%, +22.7%)
Wilmington 15.225 (+5.68%, +43.62%)
Greenville 8.838 (+2.62%, +29.33%)

All of these cities are outpacing Fayetteville in growth, and yet Fayetteville is still the largest of the group (still 43% larger than Wilmington and 39% larger than Hickory). None of these cities are close to Fayetteville, in fact, here's a fun fact, if Wilmington maintained its economic growth for the next 8 years as it did for 2010-2018------>which we know it won't, because of the impending recession---->it still would trail Fayetteville at the 2026 GDP numbers (Fay around $25b and Wil around $22b)...

Same thing with MSA population, if both maintained their current trajectories for the following 8 years, Fayetteville would be at ~409k and Wil at ~340k...

Wilmington is the city of the AV/Fay/Wil group that should be argued as not included, not the other way around. It is significantly smaller than both and feels the part...

Greenville and Hickory also shouldn't be included in the same tier, but you'd have to argue Wilmington over both and Hickory over Greenville. The Greenville stanning on here is weird, that place is a step up from a one stoplight town, in no way is it deserving of any comparison to Fayetteville...

You guys have me in here defending Fayetteville, which I'm not the biggest fan of myself, but I've learned over the years that my non-Carolina eyes give me a better perspective of how to rate these cities than if I was a bred Carolinian, you guys have a notoriously biased perspective of how you view your cities (all of them). Fayetteville is a Tier III NC city. Solidly. And probably leading that group of two (or three) cities. Asheville and Wilmington appeal more to most people on this website, not a surprise, yet then you go to these cities and objectively speaking they aren't offering most, if any, things on a higher scale than Fayetteville to warrant higher value placement in the Carolina pecking order...
This is completely false. Walk around downtown Asheville and there will be pedestrians everywhere. Even at night, and people will feel safe. There will be locally owned shops selling locally made art, crafts, knick knacks. There is live music everywhere, including people playing music on the sidewalks. There are cafes, restaurants, bars, arcades, music venues, stores, etc all over downtown Asheville. It's also extremely walkable and aesthetically pleasing with mountains in the backdrop. Fayetteville is about the opposite. Downtown is tiny and very very quickly dumps you into **** neighborhoods and/or industrial zones. I don't know enough about Wilmington to make an accurate comparison, but I h ave been a few times and the Waterfront/Riverwalk District blows away anything Fayetteville has to offer.

What can Fayetteville offer that's on par with that? Nothing. At all! And that's objective
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Old 03-19-2020, 10:27 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
Charlotte and Raleigh are the top tier NC cities. Then its Greensboro, Durham, Winston. Then it's Fayetteville and Asheville, maybe Wilmington...

For damn sure it's not Hickory or Greenville. It's one thing to say someone prefers somewhere over Fayetteville, but those cities are substantially smaller than Fayetteville with substantially less offerings. It was embarrassing for OP to lump Asheville/Fayetteville with Hickory (and/or Greenville)...

In the spirit of the OP, NC metros go:

I. Charlotte, Triangle
II. Triad
III. Asheville, Fayetteville, Wilmington (?)

That's 70% of North Carolina's population right there, everybody else is in a pile after that...
The OP didnt include Greenville in the poll. It actually would have made more sense to include Greenville than Hickory as a stand along city considering its over twice the size of Hickory.

In terms of Fayetteville being compared/contrasted to Asheville and Wilmington...its absolutely accurate...In 2010 Cumberland Co was 319K, Buncombe Co is 238K and New Hanover County was 203K. Projected growth shows an estimated population of 332K for Cumberland, 257 for Buncombe and 228K for New Hanover. So Buncombe and New Hanover pop continue to decrease the margin. And they are all under 350K.

Greensboro, Winston Salem and Durham are clearly 2nd tier in NC after Charlotte and Raleigh. I think Cary could be added to the list of potential cities to become 2nd tier. Fayetteville is sliding in the wrong direction and is likely never going to be a 2nd tier city.
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Old 03-19-2020, 11:36 AM
 
Location: South Raleigh areas
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None of these cities will ever be second tier NC cities, let's get that out of the way. None of them...

Asheville is crazy overrated. It's not a bad looking place but lacks diversity and also has a small downtown and is in an even more racist region than the Sandhills. Arts and music aren't unique to Asheville, it works for Asheville because it's a big fish in a small pond part of NC with nothing to compare it too...

Thoroughly unimpressed with Asheville...

I find it funny (sarcasm, I actually don't and I know why this is) that when people talk about cities on here they always exclude inclusiveness and racism topics like everyone who goes to these places is afforded the same experience...

Fayetteville's nightlife is arguably better than Wilmington's and enough people from there head to Fayetteville for nightlife, not the other way around. For all the hype around Wilmington's waterfront it doesn't have a higher degree of shopping and dining options...

Fayetteville, Wilmington, Asheville are the same tier, I'm hesitant with Wilmington but it probably fits. Yes Asheville and Wilmington are closing the gap, but, particularly for Wilmington, there's a ways to go to definitively state it's a greater city than Fayetteville...
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Old 03-19-2020, 01:48 PM
 
2,863 posts, read 4,363,842 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
None of these cities will ever be second tier NC cities, let's get that out of the way. None of them...

Asheville is crazy overrated. It's not a bad looking place but lacks diversity and also has a small downtown and is in an even more racist region than the Sandhills. Arts and music aren't unique to Asheville, it works for Asheville because it's a big fish in a small pond part of NC with nothing to compare it too...

Thoroughly unimpressed with Asheville...

I find it funny (sarcasm, I actually don't and I know why this is) that when people talk about cities on here they always exclude inclusiveness and racism topics like everyone who goes to these places is afforded the same experience...

Fayetteville's nightlife is arguably better than Wilmington's and enough people from there head to Fayetteville for nightlife, not the other way around. For all the hype around Wilmington's waterfront it doesn't have a higher degree of shopping and dining options...

Fayetteville, Wilmington, Asheville are the same tier, I'm hesitant with Wilmington but it probably fits. Yes Asheville and Wilmington are closing the gap, but, particularly for Wilmington, there's a ways to go to definitively state it's a greater city than Fayetteville...
Is that serious? Wilmington night life could be considered better than Winston Salem, Greensboro and Durham...let alone compare it to Fayetteville. Wilmington has a huge restaurant scene and was ranked 12th in the nation (out of 600) for foodies...

https://www.wwaytv3.com/2019/04/01/w...s-for-foodies/

Note that Asheville was 4th. Fayetteville was 449.

Per capita...Fayetteville was 258 in restaurants and 296 for bars. Asheville was 15th for restaurants and 18th for bars. Wilmington was 8th for restaurants and 8th for bars.

No one goes to Fayetteville from Wilmington for nightlife, in fact it is actually the exact opposite.

And the Riverfront is award winning...

https://www.10best.com/awards/travel...an-riverfront/

The Historic District, Riverwalk, Battleship, Marina, Convention Center, Hotels, multiple theaters and under construction Riverfront amphitheater. Are you sure you aren't talking about Wilmington Ohio?
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Old 03-19-2020, 04:23 PM
 
Location: South Raleigh areas
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Originally Posted by HP91 View Post
Is that serious? Wilmington night life could be considered better than Winston Salem, Greensboro and Durham...let alone compare it to Fayetteville. Wilmington has a huge restaurant scene and was ranked 12th in the nation (out of 600) for foodies...

https://www.wwaytv3.com/2019/04/01/w...s-for-foodies/

Note that Asheville was 4th. Fayetteville was 449.

Per capita...Fayetteville was 258 in restaurants and 296 for bars. Asheville was 15th for restaurants and 18th for bars. Wilmington was 8th for restaurants and 8th for bars.

No one goes to Fayetteville from Wilmington for nightlife, in fact it is actually the exact opposite.

And the Riverfront is award winning...

https://www.10best.com/awards/travel...an-riverfront/

The Historic District, Riverwalk, Battleship, Marina, Convention Center, Hotels, multiple theaters and under construction Riverfront amphitheater. Are you sure you aren't talking about Wilmington Ohio?
Okay, we both could be right and wrong here. Fayetteville is seen as the more desirable location for black nightlife. Which of course, isn't gonna mean much to CD's constituency, but means something to alot of North Carolinians given 1 in 5 NCers are black and an even larger number of NCers who aren't black, enjoy the entertainments and events that black NCers put on or that are geared towards black NCers...

Wilmington doesn't have a positive reputation on that front, but does well in the appeal of things not specifically catered to black NCers...
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Old 03-19-2020, 06:19 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
I think you'll see in the upcoming Census results that Hickory is growing, and doing so faster than Morganton.
I raw total numbers I agree, however, I think Morganton will win in percentage change and household income. But I will wait and see.
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Old 03-19-2020, 07:22 PM
 
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Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
Okay, we both could be right and wrong here. Fayetteville is seen as the more desirable location for black nightlife. Which of course, isn't gonna mean much to CD's constituency, but means something to alot of North Carolinians given 1 in 5 NCers are black and an even larger number of NCers who aren't black, enjoy the entertainments and events that black NCers put on or that are geared towards black NCers...

Wilmington doesn't have a positive reputation on that front, but does well in the appeal of things not specifically catered to black NCers...
I would definitely concede on that front. Fayetteville is a very diverse community and it has a historically black college as its primary university. Wilmington is only 17% African American.

But the numbers overall do speak for themselves.
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