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Thanks so much for the info. It does appear Wakes top 5 do pack quite a bit of punch density wise.
One thing I do want to point out is the Charlotte added 50 square miles and 190k. That is a density of nearly 4k per square mile. I think that metric alone is proof that most of Charlotte's was not due to annexation alone because that density is higher than the Meck average.
On a another note, come visit Huntersville and you'll see what I'm saying. The town is similar to the look and feel of the area near Cary Towne Center Mall. When the 2020 Census comes out I think this will be more proof.
No doubt that Huntersville is in the Cary model. Let's face it, cities are probably most similar based on when they were developed more than any other factor.
I have visited Huntersville, it reminded me much more of Apex than Cary (for the record, I've lived in both Cary and Apex and much preferred Apex) mostly because of the size and density; also the fact that it is very near Lake Norman on it's western edge, similar to how Apex's western edge is very near Jordan Lake (Though Cary's far western edge borders Jordan Lake as well). Also according to City-data; the income and demographics of Huntersville are almost identical to that of Apex.
^^^The distance from Apex to Wake Forest is a few miles longer than the distance between Fort Mill SC and Huntersville NC. This fact shows a serious flaw in what you are trying to say.
As for the thread topic, it's nice to see NC with almost ten 100K towns.
Okay...how about we just remove Apex and Wake Forest from the discussion? Let's just keep Raleigh, Cary and Garner. In 2010, those three cities were about 213 square miles total and almost 565,000. So, in total, they have more people and occupy less land than Charlotte did in 2000. I'm sorry that the shapes of the cities don't exactly match the outline of Charlotte in 2000. If we now remove Garner and leave just Raleigh and Cary, we now have a a population that is almost equal to Charlotte in 2000 in less than 200 square miles.
My entire point here is that I disagree with the notion, that I typically hear, that Raleigh is 20 years behind Charlotte. It's the very nature of Wake County's make up with its numerous smaller municipalities that best helps me illustrate that point. Is Raleigh/Wake "behind" Charlotte/Mecklenburg? Yes. Is it behind by 20 years as is often claimed? No. My guess is that Raleigh/Wake is probably trailing, at best, by 7 maybe 8 years presently and closing that gap each year. To be clear, that gap is not measured in pro-sports or tall buildings. To me, those are not measuring sticks. I am talking about population here.
If I knew how to do do so, I'd also carve today's Wake County into the (square miles) size of Mecklenburg by cutting off the far southern, eastern and northern parts (thus sacrificing Wake Forest, Fuquay-Varina, Wendell and Zebulon) and I am almost positive that it would more populated than Mecklenburg in 2000. Wake could lose 200,000 in that exercise and still be larger than Mecklenburg was in 2000.
FWIW, This is NOT a slam on Charlotte or Mecklenburg.
Okay...how about we just remove Apex and Wake Forest from the discussion? Let's just keep Raleigh, Cary and Garner. In 2010, those three cities were about 213 square miles total and almost 565,000. So, in total, they have more people and occupy less land than Charlotte did in 2000. I'm sorry that the shapes of the cities don't exactly match the outline of Charlotte in 2000. If we now remove Garner and leave just Raleigh and Cary, we now have a a population that is almost equal to Charlotte in 2000 in less than 200 square miles.
My entire point here is that I disagree with the notion, that I typically hear, that Raleigh is 20 years behind Charlotte. It's the very nature of Wake County's make up with its numerous smaller municipalities that best helps me illustrate that point. Is Raleigh/Wake "behind" Charlotte/Mecklenburg? Yes. Is it behind by 20 years as is often claimed? No. My guess is that Raleigh/Wake is probably trailing, at best, by 7 maybe 8 years presently and closing that gap each year. To be clear, that gap is not measured in pro-sports or tall buildings. To me, those are not measuring sticks. I am talking about population here.
If I knew how to do do so, I'd also carve today's Wake County into the (square miles) size of Mecklenburg by cutting off the far southern, eastern and northern parts (thus sacrificing Wake Forest, Fuquay-Varina, Wendell and Zebulon) and I am almost positive that it would more populated than Mecklenburg in 2000. Wake could lose 200,000 in that exercise and still be larger than Mecklenburg was in 2000.
FWIW, This is NOT a slam on Charlotte or Mecklenburg.
I'll try to explain the 20 years gap as best as I can. Meck and Georgia's largest county (Fulton) differ by about 100,000 people (920,000 Meck; 1,020,000 Fulton). Meck has 6 fewer sq/mi than Fulton btw. By these numbers, Meck is only about 7 years behind Fulton in population. Does this mean that Charlotte is only 7 years behind Atlanta? HECK Noooooooo!!!
Wake would be a county of 720,000 if it were the same size as Meck (basically Wake would lose 180,000 people if it lost 306 sq/mi of land). At 526 sq/mi and a population of 720,000, that's smaller than Charlotte's 300 sq/mi population of 735,000 isn't it? In fact, Wake was a county of 832 sq/mi with a population of 625,000 back in 2000. Charlotte was 242 sq/mi with a population of 540,000 back in 2000. 11 years ago, Wake had nearly 600 more sq/miles than Charlotte and only 85,000 extra people to show for it!!!???
Meck would be a county of 1.1 million if it were the same size as Wake (basically Meck would gain 180,000 people if we had an extra 306 sq/mi). The truth is since metro Charlotte is more dense than the Triangle, Meck would actually gain 250,000, but I decided to keep the numbers equal for both counties so there won't be any arguments.
I understand that you feel as though Wake and Meck are closer than the 20 year gap (which is fine). Just know that MUCH more goes into those "gap" ratings (see my Meck vs Fulton comments above). If we go only by the numbers (population and land area), Meck is closer to being Fulton than it is to being Wake. This is why your constant county arguments are a bit pointless.
With that said, take a good look at areas around Charlotte vs the areas around Raleigh. Meck looks like a more developed county and has for quite some time. The bottom line is we are a 5 gallon bucket that holds more water than your 8 gallon bucket (and you can't wait for your 8 gallon bucket to finally catch up).
Here's a hint; your bucket should hold at least 50% more water than my bucket (not less water). So let's drop this because I am not really in the mood to post pics that illustrate what I am saying. Anyone familiar with both counties know what I am saying anyways.
Okay...how about we just remove Apex and Wake Forest from the discussion? Let's just keep Raleigh, Cary and Garner. In 2010, those three cities were about 213 square miles total and almost 565,000. So, in total, they have more people and occupy less land than Charlotte did in 2000. I'm sorry that the shapes of the cities don't exactly match the outline of Charlotte in 2000. If we now remove Garner and leave just Raleigh and Cary, we now have a a population that is almost equal to Charlotte in 2000 in less than 200 square miles.
My entire point here is that I disagree with the notion, that I typically hear, that Raleigh is 20 years behind Charlotte. It's the very nature of Wake County's make up with its numerous smaller municipalities that best helps me illustrate that point. Is Raleigh/Wake "behind" Charlotte/Mecklenburg? Yes. Is it behind by 20 years as is often claimed? No. My guess is that Raleigh/Wake is probably trailing, at best, by 7 maybe 8 years presently and closing that gap each year. To be clear, that gap is not measured in pro-sports or tall buildings. To me, those are not measuring sticks. I am talking about population here.
If I knew how to do do so, I'd also carve today's Wake County into the (square miles) size of Mecklenburg by cutting off the far southern, eastern and northern parts (thus sacrificing Wake Forest, Fuquay-Varina, Wendell and Zebulon) and I am almost positive that it would more populated than Mecklenburg in 2000. Wake could lose 200,000 in that exercise and still be larger than Mecklenburg was in 2000.
FWIW, This is NOT a slam on Charlotte or Mecklenburg.
I don't take your comments as as a slam on Charlotte. I agree with most of your comments and I believe basically what you're saying is that Meck and Wake as countiesare peers. I agree. However, Charlotte and Raleigh are not. Looking at Charlotte in the 90s is more on par with what Raleigh is doing now rather than comparing Charlotte and Raleigh now. This is also not a slam on Raleigh. Charlotte has been a city for quite a while, and Raleigh has recently been transforming into a "city." With that said metro Charlotte and Triangle are not that far.
I think most people are actually saying Raleigh is 20 years behind Charlotte in terms of the actual cities itself and not the Metro areas or all the figures. (Figures lie and liars figure). Downtown RDU is probably 20 years behind Charlotte. Plus our amenities are quite far ahead of RDU.
If an airport has it's own downtown I'd say not only is it 20 years ahead of Charlotte's airport, but probably 20 years ahead of just about any airport anywhere.
If an airport has it's own downtown I'd say not only is it 20 years ahead of Charlotte's airport, but probably 20 years ahead of just about any airport anywhere.
You knew what I meant. I don't like typing out city names sometimes so I just use their airport code.
Looking at other numbers, trends and growth rates:
It looks as though both Georgia and North Carolina (in that order) will overtake Michigan as the 8th and 9th largest states by population within 4-6 years, and by 2010 both will be very close (as in 400,000-500,000 people) to overtaking Ohio, currently #7.
This assumes that present growth trends sustain over a decade: growth of about 1.45 million per decade in both North Carolina and Georgia, a continued slow decline in Michigan (as battered as Michigan's economy is, I would still be very surprised to see ten continual years of slow population loss), alongside Ohio's growth rates over the last 20 years of around 300,000 per decade.
#6 - Pennsylvania's growth rate was around 600,000 over the last decade; Georgia and North Carolina would (by 2020) only slightly over 1,000,000 away from overtaking them as well.
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You knew what I meant. I don't like typing out city names sometimes so I just use their airport code.
