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The rich find ways NOT to pay federal and state income taxes...but they get hit equally by the sales tax. In fact, they pay plenty 'cause of the bigger toys they buy!
I have lived in FL and currently live in TX, but moving back to NC this Summer because it's home. I can tell you, the no income tax works in both states as attested by their economies, esp here in TX. And, no, it's not just the energy sector that's growing, but that is a nice boost, too.
So, if you want the rich to pay more taxes, hit 'em with the sales tax, straight up. No deductions.
Rich people pay proportionately less of their income on consumables. They also write tax law and they write their own loopholes into the law. This is a failure of our electoral system, not an inherent inability to close loopholes. For that matter, it's a bit... unintuitive to suggest a sales tax to close loopholes as sales taxes are themselves the biggest loophole. Just buy everything online from somewhere that doesn't have a sales tax. Until more concrete laws are enacted regarding internet sales, there will be arcane ways of avoiding a sales tax.
If you were really concerned about eliminating loopholes and taxing everyone fairly, you might rather support a Value-Added Tax, which draws money from all transactions in the economy, as opposed to just retail. Either that is not your real intention, or you've not read up on the issue much.
Florida and Texas have robust, growing economies due to their population growth. Southernization is a trend that has been ongoing for decades. North Carolina's population growth is just as great as Texas and Florida, despite our having an income tax this whole time. Other states that rely heavily on sales taxes like Mississippi, Alabama, Louisiana, Tennessee have not experienced that growth. There are larger factors contributing to a state's growth and success than taxes, especially since no state has particularly progressive taxes anyway, and some states without an income tax still have a capital gains tax (while others -with- an income tax don't have capital gains).
There is a better example of a state that relies on sales taxes that you could've used--Washington, which has the strongest economy of any state with no income tax. You know what states have a higher gdp/capita than Florida, Texas, and Washington? New York, Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Jersey... all the high tax "nanny states". And it's worth noting that Delaware, the state with the highest gdp per capita, has no sales tax, though this is partly due to its size. Washington DC is the same.
The Republicans, who complained that the Pres. was trying to move us to a european style eco., are trying to move us to a tax system (Euro) which will require the massive spending on sales taxes (VAT). Just amazing.
Texas is largely funded through federal oil subsidies. Even still their schools and health care are even worse than ours.
The public schools in the northern suburbs of Dallas, northern and western suburbs of Austin, and western suburbs of Houston are among the best in the entire nation. Maybe public schools in Brownsville, Corpus Christi, McAllen, Harlingen, El Paso, etc. suck; but who cares about those places? There's no industry in those cities and thus, no jobs. When people move to Texas, they move to Houston, Dallas, or Austin. Those cities are where the jobs are. Forget about the rest the places that don't matter.
I'm sure most of you people from NC posting on this forum live in either Charlotte or "The Triangle." Same deal. NC and TX aren't CT; rural communities in NC and TX are very undesirable and few, if any, people relocate to rural communities in those states from other states. Most rural counties in almost all states lost population between 2000 and 2010. Check it out at www.census.gov.
The public schools in the northern suburbs of Dallas, northern and western suburbs of Austin, and western suburbs of Houston are among the best in the entire nation. Maybe public schools in Brownsville, Corpus Christi, McAllen, Harlingen, El Paso, etc. suck; but who cares about those places? There's no industry in those cities and thus, no jobs. When people move to Texas, they move to Houston, Dallas, or Austin. Those cities are where the jobs are. Forget about the rest the places that don't matter.
I'm sure most of you people from NC posting on this forum live in either Charlotte or "The Triangle." Same deal. NC and TX aren't CT; rural communities in NC and TX are very undesirable and few, if any, people relocate to rural communities in those states from other states. Most rural counties in almost all states lost population between 2000 and 2010. Check it out at www.census.gov.
San Antonio isn't growing quickly?
Apparently you are unfamiliar with NC's rural counties as well...several of the fastest growing are rural counties.
Also, a quick search...try Google or Bing for example, turns up a few Texas schools as among the "best in the nation" but schools are funded with property taxes typically unless Texas uses some other magical formula.
The Republicans, who complained that the Pres. was trying to move us to a european style eco., are trying to move us to a tax system (Euro) which will require the massive spending on sales taxes (VAT). Just amazing.
VAT taxes at each level of production and distribution. And EU countries still have income and corporate taxes on top of it. What the Mensa applicants in Raleigh are proposing is just sticking it to the consumer.
Well, I'm not a tax expert, but I do like the idea of not paying a state income tax anymore. I did a quick calculation, and it seems as though my wife and I (combined) would trade in over $6,000/year in state income taxes for an $1,000/year increase in sales taxes. Um, that's slightly over 4 months worth of mortgage payments back into our pockets every year. That's a new car every 3 years paid for with cash. That's the townhouse paid-off years ahead of schedule. Maybe my math is off a little bit, but I think I like this no state income tax idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vatnos
$10,000 Income (bottom 20%) TN - 11.7% NC - 9.5%
$23,000 Income (next 20%) TN - 10.8% NC - 9.4%
$38,000 (next 20%)
TN - 9.3%
NC - 9.6%
$59,600 (next 20%)
TN - 7.3%
NC - 9.7%
$103,000 (next 15%)
TN - 6.1%
NC - 9.3%
$228,000 (next 4%)
TN - 4.5%
NC - 8.6%
$1,365,000 (top 1%)
TN - 3.3%
NC - 8.1%
Two things jump out at me when I look at the numbers above. The first thing I noticed is that my household would save over $3,000/yr if we left Charlotte for Nashville. The other thing I noticed is that the bottom 40% are folks who have EBT cards, medicaid, WIC, welfare checks, financial aid for education, free/reduced lunch for their kids, public housing-qualified, etc. I should know because I grew up in public housing as a child.
I can tell you that there is no such thing as a "tax burden" on the poor in this country, because the poor get tons of "free stuff". At one point, my mother and I lived in an apartment behind the Burger King near South Park Mall for less than $200/mo (an area of town with homes well over $1 million). There are mixed income neighborhoods near uptown such as this one that offers reduced rent for the "working poor" (folks who earn less than $27k per year). Some units in neighborhoods such as that one can rent for less than $600/mo if you're "poor enough". A guy like me would pay well over $1,000/mo for a comparable uptown address simply because I "can afford it". Even in a city like NYC (my birth place), there is a little thing called "rent control". Folks like my mom used it quite often to get nice (and otherwise expensive) NYC rentals on the cheaps. So YES, the "tax burden" on the working poor would be higher. However, the working poor gets tons of "other things" in return that more than off-set the higher rate of taxation. The same can be said for our retired seniors as well.
Before my mother passed away, she usually would loan me money and I was the one with a job!!! Her oxygen delivery, her food, her spending money, her medicine, and her section 8 housing was all paid for by the government. She had to give the left over money away because she couldn't show a profit in her bank account. Heck, she even would sometimes buy me and my son groceries on her EBT card because the money was there, it had to be spent, and she didn't need all of it for herself. So please, please, PLEASE; let's cut the drama of "Oh no, what about our working-poor and seniors" because those folks are taken care of quite well in this country. I've walked the path of being poor and middle class, and I can honestly say that I have no fears of going back to being poor because it's not as bad as some folks think it is. When I was "poor", I could afford to put subwoofers in my trunk and new rims on the ride. I can't do those things now because I have to pay extremely high income taxes.
Last edited by urbancharlotte; 01-23-2013 at 03:14 AM..
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