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View Poll Results: which city and why? what does the other city need to do to get your vote?
Raleigh-Durham 243 42.63%
Charlotte 327 57.37%
Voters: 570. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-08-2009, 07:43 AM
 
9,848 posts, read 30,202,744 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joethoma View Post
Having lived in NC for my whole life and in both Charlotte and the Triangle, I feel like I can make an educated commentary on both. In addition to NC, I have traveled extensively so I feel like the judgements I make have some merit. First off, I am proud to be a part of a state theat has made so many positive steps over the past 30+ years.

When I was growing up, I remember reading my grandmother's encyclopedias from the 1950's about the ruralness of NC and how other than textiles, furniture, and tobacco, only crop farming was left. We have come a long way, and we stack up against some other Southern states (TN, GA, AL) who used to have much better known cities.

When I travel, people are curious about the success of NC over the past few decades. I think we have an environment that attracts and welcomes business and a people who predominantly welcome change. I personally think immigration into NC overall has been a good thing. The Piedmont of NC (Charlotte, the Triad, and the Triangle) is transforming into one of the great regions of the East Coast and the whole US.

Having grown up around Charlotte (and I currently live in the Charlotte metro), I used to be inclined to believe Charlotte was ahead of the rest of NC. I still believe Charlotte is great and is hopefully taking the right steps to diversify our economy from such much financial to thrive in the coming years. Howver, that being said, I believe the Triangle is also a vibrant place and is equally on par with Charlotte. In my opinion (and it's just that), most people who would denigrate another area have not spent enough time really getting to know it (myself included).

People from western part of the state (including Charlotte) are inherently distrustful of Raleigh (which I believe is misplaced but I do think Eastern NC (east of Raleigh) has retained too much power politcally given the decline in population and industry). As many people above has pointed out, the population of NC lies within the central part of the state primarily, as the western part grows slower and the eastern part loses population.

Personally I do not think that Raleigh (Triangle) and Charlotte are destined to be enemies. I do believe a healthy competition is good and has spurred both to become World Class cities (at least in my estimation).

Raleigh and the Triangle has done a wonderful job attracting technology driven companies, and I think Raleigh deserves to be mentioned with Austin, TX and Colorado Springs, CO as a premier city of an educated workforce.

Likewise, Charlotte has done a great job of becoming one of the premier financial powerhouses of the country. Both cities have moved lightyears beyond our shared agriculutural roots.

Personally, based on what I have seen and read, I see Charlotte continuing to grow and I believe it will remain as the largest city in NC indefinitely. A lot of this is pure geography. Charlotte has annexed almost all of Mecklenburg County, which along with Wake are the 2 biggest counties in the state. I do however think Wake County will overtake Mecklenburg in population at some point because Wake has a bigger land volume.

Raleigh remains more land-locked but the Raleigh-Cary, Durham, Chapel Hill area will continue it's phenomenal growth and will close the gap as "The Triangle" to approaching the size of the Charlotte metro, maybe even surpassing it in the next 20-30 years.

Even as someone living around Charlotte, I welcome this. I do not think the success of the Triangle will mean Charlotte will fail. We both, on a national scale, are just coming into prominence, and I hope it continues throughout the 21st Century.

I could go into more discussion about a host of specifics, but as a whole I think North Carolineans should embrace the fact we have 2 (and to lesser extent 3) regions that are becoming nationally known. It is a far cry from the 1950's!!!

To everyone living in or considering this great state, I want to say I am proud to be a North Carolinean and will be to my dying day. I hope you all feel the same.

Well said Joe. It's nice to see an educated opinion and not a bunch of spin for a change in this thread. Well done indeed.

 
Old 08-08-2009, 07:48 AM
 
1,211 posts, read 2,664,089 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbancharlotte View Post
Well said! This is exactly why I did not agree with the post by "joe". Additionally, the Triangle's CSA is landlocked to the west (Triad) and the south (Fayetteville). The Triangle can only grow north and east (unless we see a Fayetteville/Triad/Triangle merger which is doubtful any time soon). Charlotte's CSA has more room to grow. Also, Charlotte is THE city within a larger CSA and Raleigh is A city within a smaller CSA. This is why Charlotte vs. Raleigh is generally seen as an apples vs. oranges comparison. The fact that these two metro areas are not comparable (nor are they on par with each other) isn't even debatable. It is a fact.

Here are some interesting facts about Charlotte's MSA vs. Greensboro and Raleigh's CSAs.

Charlotte's 6 county MSA has 1.7 million people (2009)
Raleigh's 8 county CSA has 1.7 million people (2009)
Greensboro's 10 county CSA has 1.6 million people (2009)

Seems close huh?

Charlotte's 6 county MSA has roughly 3,000 sq/mi of land
Raleigh's 8 county CSA has roughly 4,500 sq/mi of land
Greensboro's 10 county CSA has roughly 4,900 sq/mi of land

Keep in mind that NC's fastest growing county (Union) and SC's fastest growing county (York) are both located in Charlotte's MSA. Looking at the current numbers and the past growth trends, I honestly don't see Raleigh's CSA passing Charlotte's MSA by much. I don't see Raleigh's CSA passing Charlotte's CSA ever (by "ever" I mean in my life time). Charlotte's growth would have to come to a dead stop for the next 20 plus years for that to happen. I hope both Raleigh and Charlotte continue to grow for years to come. A dead stop in growth is not something I wish on either Charlotte or Raleigh.

I've said this many times before and I will say it again. The area in NC most comparable to the Triangle is the Triad. The only thing the Triangle has in common with Charlotte is extremely high growth. When it comes to population, layout, mass transit usage, airport traffic, infrastructure/roads, things to do, etc, Raleigh should be compared to Greensboro. Plain and simple. When it comes to growth, then and only then should Raleigh and Charlotte be compared.

There's my rant for the day. Thanks for reading. Bye y'all!
Where in the heck did you get eight counties dude? Seven... On top of that who cares. That's not what makes an area attractive. You remind me of a texan that really cant see why Chicago, DC, San Fran, etc, are so much better than cities like Houston and Dallas. You think it's all about stats or who has the biggest. Very dim....
 
Old 08-08-2009, 01:35 PM
 
7,055 posts, read 12,274,149 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metro.m View Post
Where in the heck did you get eight counties dude? Seven...
I think you forgot Harnett county (Dunn). It is the only micropolitan county included in Raleigh's CSA.
 
Old 08-08-2009, 01:47 PM
 
45 posts, read 156,194 times
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Winston-Salem. (am moving there in three weeks). It is a better city than charlotte and raleigh. They would have to surpass ASHEVILLE to ever compete the the feeling of living in the W.S.!
 
Old 08-08-2009, 02:44 PM
 
21 posts, read 67,028 times
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I found this topic interesting since I am a transplant looking to relocate to either Charlotte or the Triangle after considering the Asheville area. I took a traveling a job in NC and have had the opportunity to spend time in many areas in NC including the small towns in between. Raleigh-Durham appeals to me because of the colleges there. College towns always bring in more culture and creativity which is something I value and appreciate. Charlotte is impressive because it is such a beautiful city and offers a city - scene that is fun and trendy. And I am more of a mountain person, so I like Charlotte's proximity to the Blue Ridge Mts. It really is a toss up though. I have found that the Raleigh-Durham area has more of a competitve job market because of the universities and the area seems somewhat saturated with highly qualified and educated people. I just hope with all the population growth that is occurring in my areas, thanks to folks like myself, both places can retain some individuality and character that has made the region so popular.

As far as Asheville, I loved loved the mountain setting. But chose to set my sights elsewhere because of the lack of industry and the observation of people living there seem to be on the extremes. (I could be wrong). Extremes on every continuum. Extremely rich, extremely retired, extremely granola and liberal. Being a single youngish professional, I thought it would be tough to find my niche.
 
Old 08-10-2009, 01:48 PM
 
1,110 posts, read 1,962,651 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgia_Peach_95 View Post
Winston-Salem. (am moving there in three weeks). It is a better city than charlotte and raleigh. They would have to surpass ASHEVILLE to ever compete the the feeling of living in the W.S.!
Thanks for the laugh, lol! I see Winston-Salem everyday, and I have to tell you, Winston-Salem would never be better than Charlotte or Raleigh on its best day and Charlotte or Raleigh's worst day. Winston-Salem isn't even better than Greensboro. Their downtown is crappy and pretty much the whole city is a wasteland, IMO. Winston sucks!

Last edited by prwfromnc; 08-10-2009 at 02:08 PM..
 
Old 08-10-2009, 02:06 PM
 
1,110 posts, read 1,962,651 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adavi215 View Post
^^I don't see their CSAs having the same population in the next 20-30 years. The gap may not be as big. Right now the Triangle CSA is at 1.7 million I think, and Charlotte is 2.3 million. The Triangle area is growing faster percentage wise, but Charlotte is growing bigger numerically. Between the two areas since 1980-present day, I think Charlotte has added 265k more people, I think that is just for the city though. Eventually I see the micro areas of Mooresville-Statesville and Salisbury either becoming a metro area or officially apart of the Charlotte MSA and the Charlotte and Hickory metro areas becoming a CSA.

I will conceed that Wake county by that time will overtake Mecklenburg as the states most populous county. That will be because Mecklenburg county will have maxed out growth and Wake will still have some more land to grow in.

Additionally I see Charlotte and Raleigh CSAs reaching into the nations 30 and their economies will be ranked even higher. Especially if Charlotte becomes an energy hub. Raleigh should grow its technical base into nanotechnology, I see its pharmaceutical industry about to embark on some rough times.
Agreed! I do see places like Hickory, Newton, Morganton, Lenoir, Pageland, SC and maybe even Richmond County eventually being added into the Charlotte CSA or MSA in the next 15-20 years where Charlotte will grow into a 20-county Metro Region, whereas Raleigh's Metro Region will extend almost into Virginia, growing into a 16-county Region in that same time frame.
 
Old 08-10-2009, 04:26 PM
 
4,692 posts, read 9,263,685 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adavi215 View Post
Ok, here we go. Interesting facts about these two regions of NC:
* they account for 67% of the NC population growth from 2000-2007 (693430 total, CLT:350k, RDU: 343k)
*NC GDP in 2006: $379billion, CLT&RDU combined GDP:$190billion. That is about 50% of the state's GDP
* city population/CSA population estimates for 2008: CLT: 687,456/2,338,289 Raleigh:392,552 Durham:223,284 RDU:1,690,557

To summarize this data, the Triangle and Charlotte regions have accounted for 2/3rds of the growth, half of the gdp, and their CSAs account for 44% of the states population.
Individually Charlotte for percentage of growth, gdp, and CSA population equates to 34%, 30%, and 25% respctively. Not to knock Raleigh-Durham, but the significance that Charlotte plays to the economy of NC is very critical and huge. I think it is something that our state and local politicians need to realize in order to develop what could truly be a great gem in NC. If you do the math you can see what the Triangle areas contributes. Both areas are huge economic engines.

If you think the stats from these two regions surprise you, when the Piedmont Triad is added to the mix, you can see how much NC is driven and carried by these three areas and 5 cities.
I have seen several talks concerning the growth and population trends between these two regions, but I have yet to see anybody really talk about the ecnomies of these two NC giants. If you could go into why are they different and how are they different. If you feel so bold you can even break down how they are the same. This is not necessarily which one is better, but think about the impact these two regions have on the state of NC. As a reference I quoted one of my earlier posts. Have fun my fellow tar-heels.
 
Old 08-10-2009, 05:54 PM
 
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^^^You touched on something with this quote "Individually Charlotte for percentage of growth, gdp, and CSA population equates to 34%, 30%, and 25% respctively. Not to knock Raleigh-Durham, but the significance that Charlotte plays to the economy of NC is very critical and huge. I think it is something that our state and local politicians need to realize in order to develop what could truly be a great gem in NC."

I will add to this quote by saying NC has roughly 13 Fortune 500 companies. 8 of them are headquartered in metro Charlotte. Keep in mind that Belk and Ruddick company in Charlotte are not very far from making the Fortune 500 list (Belk is 570 and Ruddick is 587).

Also, the Southpark area of Charlotte has nearly 4.5 million sq/ft of office space and roughly 40,000 employees. By comparison, downtown Raleigh has just over 6 million sq./ft of office and 43,000 employees. Few folks (outside of Charlotte) realize that Charlotte is so much more than just Uptown. Uptown is great, but there is also Southpark, Arrowood, Ballantyne, University City, and the Nations 8th busiest airport (26th busiest in the World). If the state of NC is not aware of what all Charlotte brings to the table, then they (our state officials) are blind fools. Plain and simple.

If Charlotte goes broke, NC goes broke. It is no coincidence that Charlotte has high unemployment and NC as a whole is financially strapped. Even Bev Perdue knows that Charlotte's economic well being is vital to this state. That is why she is down here (in Charlotte) whenever there is news of jobs coming to Charlotte. She ain't dumb. She knows NC needs Charlotte like a bum needs a dollar. Without Charlotte, this state would NOT have a "showcase" city. Period. Without Charlotte, NC would be a West Virginia with great tech jobs and a beach. Nothing more.

Last edited by urbancharlotte; 08-10-2009 at 06:10 PM..
 
Old 08-10-2009, 07:59 PM
 
Location: Apex, NC
3,292 posts, read 8,525,557 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbancharlotte View Post
^^^You touched on something with this quote "Individually Charlotte for percentage of growth, gdp, and CSA population equates to 34%, 30%, and 25% respctively. Not to knock Raleigh-Durham, but the significance that Charlotte plays to the economy of NC is very critical and huge. I think it is something that our state and local politicians need to realize in order to develop what could truly be a great gem in NC."

I will add to this quote by saying NC has roughly 13 Fortune 500 companies. 8 of them are headquartered in metro Charlotte. Keep in mind that Belk and Ruddick company in Charlotte are not very far from making the Fortune 500 list (Belk is 570 and Ruddick is 587).

Also, the Southpark area of Charlotte has nearly 4.5 million sq/ft of office space and roughly 40,000 employees. By comparison, downtown Raleigh has just over 6 million sq./ft of office and 43,000 employees. Few folks (outside of Charlotte) realize that Charlotte is so much more than just Uptown. Uptown is great, but there is also Southpark, Arrowood, Ballantyne, University City, and the Nations 8th busiest airport (26th busiest in the World). If the state of NC is not aware of what all Charlotte brings to the table, then they (our state officials) are blind fools. Plain and simple.

If Charlotte goes broke, NC goes broke. It is no coincidence that Charlotte has high unemployment and NC as a whole is financially strapped. Even Bev Perdue knows that Charlotte's economic well being is vital to this state. That is why she is down here (in Charlotte) whenever there is news of jobs coming to Charlotte. She ain't dumb. She knows NC needs Charlotte like a bum needs a dollar. Without Charlotte, this state would NOT have a "showcase" city. Period. Without Charlotte, NC would be a West Virginia with great tech jobs and a beach. Nothing more.

You made some valid points, but I will disagree with you on two points. Bev Perdue aint dumb?? hummm.... Also NC would not be WV without Charlotte. Surely we would not be as well off as we are now (are we well off?), but NC has many other metro areas which thrive in a good economy, WV does not.

I remember people saying the same things about Virginia, if northern Virginia broke off and became its own state.
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