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Actually, I think that they need to do that & also have a bi-state commission to deal with the strip of no-man's land between Petersburg, VA & Henderson.That's all that separates the Piedmont crescent & the Megapolis. However, as you said, this is a different topic.
I agree. If only there were a big city between South Hill and Petersburg, RDU could someday connect to the Megalopolis.
Agreed that this is the strength of the Triangle. However, this also challenges the definition of a DT. In the Triangle, there is no need to put many of the services in the center of Raleigh. For those folks in Western and to some extent Northern Wake, it's just about as easy to run to DT Durham as DT Raleigh. So in a sense, it doesn't really matter whether Raleigh is the DT or Durham is the DT, or perhaps even that there is no DT. To that end, regional planning is probably more important here than in many other areas.
BTW - don't get me wrong. I love big buildings and urban centers more than most. Things in the Triangle are just a bit different than the typical model.
Definition of a DT? How does having more than one downtown change the definition? I split my time between two metros that have something in common. Both the Triangle and South Florida function with a multi-core model. Of course South Florida is on a different scale but there are similarities. South Florida has DT Miami and DT Ft Lauderdale and to a lesser extent, DT West Palm Beach. The Triangle has DT Raleigh, DT Durham and to a lesser extent, DT Chapel Hill.
After growing up as a kid in the Bay Area of California (again a multi core metro), having such a set up is not unusual to me and I don't view it as either a strength or a weakness.....it just "is".
Both DT Raleigh and DT Durham are making strides of their own. Would it impress some if all that focus was placed in one city?...perhaps. However, what's the alternative???....let either DT Raleigh or DT Durham wither on the vine and die? That's certainly not an option. Both DT's continue to make significant progress and there's room for both to do so. The entire Triangle benefits when both DTs do well and bring more opportunity its citizens.
Yes, but NC16 goes all the way to Wilkes. It's a straight shot to Charlotte and many people from all over that area (despite of having Winston nearby) travel to Charlotte.
I don't think just because there's travelers in a county that travels to a much larger county for work, ect. should be added to another metropolitan area whenever it's in one of it's own.
It'd make thinks complicated unless all four counties in the Unifour is included.
But then that wouldn't make logic sense considering the proximity to Wilkes and Watauga and their large impact on Alexander and Caldwell. Wilkesboro/North Wilkesboro and Boone are both micropolitan areas. Isn't it common for a metro (like Charlotte) to add micropolitan areas rather than entire metro areas?
When it comes to MSA or CSA that definition is determined by OMB. If a county has 25% of the workforce commuting it's considered part of the MSA. If 15% it's CSA. Now this really depends on what is considered a core county. For example, what you're referring to could apply to Anson county. However, Union county is considered a core county, thus Anson is included in the MSA definition. The interesting thing is what happens to Iredell. If Iredell becomes a core county then it could be possible that Hickory and Charlotte could combine to form one CSA.
Definition of a DT? How does having more than one downtown change the definition? I split my time between two metros that have something in common. Both the Triangle and South Florida function with a multi-core model. Of course South Florida is on a different scale but there are similarities. South Florida has DT Miami and DT Ft Lauderdale and to a lesser extent, DT West Palm Beach. The Triangle has DT Raleigh, DT Durham and to a lesser extent, DT Chapel Hill.
After growing up as a kid in the Bay Area of California (again a multi core metro), having such a set up is not unusual to me and I don't view it as either a strength or a weakness.....it just "is".
Both DT Raleigh and DT Durham are making strides of their own. Would it impress some if all that focus was placed in one city?...perhaps. However, what's the alternative???....let either DT Raleigh or DT Durham wither on the vine and die? That's certainly not an option. Both DT's continue to make significant progress and there's room for both to do so. The entire Triangle benefits when both DTs do well and bring more opportunity its citizens.
Not to mention the main economic hub of the region is the Research Triangle Park. This is a suburban office complex. It's going to require more effort on both Raleigh and Durham yo improve their DT given this. But the Triangle is swirly multi-nodal with also Cary. Like you said it id what is multi-nodal cities.
Definition of a DT? How does having more than one downtown change the definition? I split my time between two metros that have something in common. Both the Triangle and South Florida function with a multi-core model. Of course South Florida is on a different scale but there are similarities. South Florida has DT Miami and DT Ft Lauderdale and to a lesser extent, DT West Palm Beach. The Triangle has DT Raleigh, DT Durham and to a lesser extent, DT Chapel Hill.
After growing up as a kid in the Bay Area of California (again a multi core metro), having such a set up is not unusual to me and I don't view it as either a strength or a weakness.....it just "is".
Both DT Raleigh and DT Durham are making strides of their own. Would it impress some if all that focus was placed in one city?...perhaps. However, what's the alternative???....let either DT Raleigh or DT Durham wither on the vine and die? That's certainly not an option. Both DT's continue to make significant progress and there's room for both to do so. The entire Triangle benefits when both DTs do well and bring more opportunity its citizens.
I think we're saying almost the same thing.
Many folks suggest that the Triangle should develop Raleigh like they're developing Charlotte. Put the stadiums, museums, and everything else in DT Raleigh and built the Triangle as a big metro around Raleigh. The Triangle is more complex than that. We need to continue to develop Durham's DT as well as Raleigh's DT. It's also fine here to place things like stadiums in the middle, just like they did with the airport.
I've spent time in the Bay Area too. I also see the Triangle as a variation on that theme. Hopefully we'll avoid their traffic problems though.
When it comes to MSA or CSA that definition is determined by OMB. If a county has 25% of the workforce commuting it's considered part of the MSA. If 15% it's CSA. Now this really depends on what is considered a core county. For example, what you're referring to could apply to Anson county. However, Union county is considered a core county, thus Anson is included in the MSA definition. The interesting thing is what happens to Iredell. If Iredell becomes a core county then it could be possible that Hickory and Charlotte could combine to form one CSA.
Does 15-25% of Catawba commute to Charlotte?
If Catawba is included in the MSA/CSA would it bring the rest of the Unifour with it?
If Iredell becomes a core county, would you have to add Wilkes considering how many people commute to Statesville/Mooresville?
If Catawba is included in the MSA/CSA would it bring the rest of the Unifour with it?
If Iredell becomes a core county, would you have to add Wilkes considering how many people commute to Statesville/Mooresville?
I seriously doubt 25% of Catawba commutes to Charlotte. But 15% could be possible. I really don't know if Catawba meets the criteria if the unifour would join. My suspicion is that it won't. Concerning Wilkes, more of that population commutes to Winston than to the Charlotte area.
Not to mention the main economic hub of the region is the Research Triangle Park. This is a suburban office complex. It's going to require more effort on both Raleigh and Durham yo improve their DT given this. But the Triangle is swirly multi-nodal with also Cary. Like you said it id what is multi-nodal cities.
Interestingly, DT Raleigh is growing with mulit-family housing for some of those people working in RTP. I know that several of my DT neighbors work in RTP. While RedHat and Citrix are leading the way for "RTP type" companies that have decided to come to downtown Raleigh, most of the recent development DT is either new multifamily residential or commercial renovation of existing 100 year old storefronts. What's taking shape is an urban neighborhood type DT that surrounds the (primarily) government core. It will be interesting to see if the RedHat/Citrix actions begin to re-shape its future development.
As a Durhamite, it seems like a bit of a stretch to spend 1.5 billion for that rail line. I'm 100% behind Triangle Transit acquiring the land for the stations and an eventual line. I also like big infrastructure projects. I just can't imagine 25,000 or 50,000 people a day wanting to take a rail line where they want to put it. I hope I'm wrong.
Do you understand how expensive it is to maintain 15-501 every year? when we have widen it (again), it's another $250 million for just the section within 2 miles of I-40. when we have to "expand" capacity on a rail line, you buy another rail car. The up-front cost is higher for rail, but in the end, neither are cheap but the pattern of development; the design of a site is infinitely more productive and efficient if it's transit-oriented.
You bring another another huge difference between Charlotte and Raleigh. Vision and the fundamental understanding that development follows transportation, not the other way around. Development follows transportation...no city or town or subdivision was ever built unless there was a means to access it first.
Think of train stations like highway interchanges.
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Originally Posted by adavi215
I seriously doubt 25% of Catawba commutes to Charlotte. But 15% could be possible. I really don't know if Catawba meets the criteria if the unifour would join. My suspicion is that it won't. Concerning Wilkes, more of that population commutes to Winston than to the Charlotte area.
Don't forget, we've had people come on the Charlotte board looking to live closer to Charlotte while working at Apple in Maiden. We tell them to look at Gastonia. The commute can go in either direction to make the tie.Whether the tie is to Iredell, Mecklenburg, or Gaston, it's still a tie to the metro.
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