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The fact you have to take away the obvious from SouthPark, and Charlotte in general is enough to prove Charlotte is obviously in a higher tier.
Crabtree or Southpoint do no offer the same level of stores or restaurants SouthPark does. SouthPark's personality is luxurious. What's Crabtree and Southpoint's personality? Sprawl.
The Whole Foods in Charlotte is much bigger, cleaner, and offers morethan either of the two Raleigh stores, not to mention neither of the Raleigh stores have anything like the tasting loft or the cooking school that the Charlotte store has.
You probably don't even live in NC and are going by Google maps.
The Whole Foods Market is a great analogy. The Whole Foods Market of Charlotte (that recently opened last year) is in a BEAUTIFUL building. The physical beauty is great. However, content wise, it is extremely poor. There's a large section of packaged goods, and very limited produce, meat, fish. I have foodies, restaurant critiques, cooks from NYC and San Francisco cringe at Charlotte's Whole Foods. It's quantity over quality ( huge aisles of packaged products and limited selection of meat, fish,vegetables).
The Whole Foods MarketS in Raleigh (4 stores within less than 20 min driving distance from downtown Raleigh) are located in UGLY buildings. However, the offerings are HUGE. Fish, meat, vegetables - incredible variety. I cook from French cuisines to Thai (the Raleigh Whole Foods was a paradise for me). I struggle at the Charlotte Whole Foods. It's just not for people who like to cook. Common spices that are readily available in Raleigh's is not no where to seen in Charlotte's.
The Whole Foods Market of Charlotte does a remarkable job of representing Charlotte with its beautiful exterior, and dull interior.
Every wonder why Whole Foods has been successfully running 4 stores in the Raleigh area for a decade almost while the business struggled to open in Charlotte till mid 2012? It's just that the taste of people in Raleigh is different from that of Charlotte.
It's a not a good thing or a bad thing. There's two types of people attracted to different types of cities.
The truth is that one can find all classes of people within every city. There are bankers in Raleigh and there are the so-called "creative class" gays/lesbians in Charlotte. If you'd been keeping up with recent politics, you would know that Charlotte has two openly gay city council members now.
Quote: Maddalon also becomes the council’s second openly gay member. LaWana Mayfield became the first openly gay person to serve on the council when she was elected in 2011. Maddalon said it was a “non-issue” for the City Council members. “It just doesn’t seem to be relevant anymore,” he said. Plaza Midwood’s Billy Maddalon selected for City Council seat | CharlotteObserver.com
Also, the 28205 zip code in east Charlotte has more same sex households than any other zip code in the state. Much of Charlotte's Plaza Midwood and Noda neighborhoods are in this zip code.
Quote: In the state, Charlotte’s 28205 ZIP code had more same-sex couples than any other ZIP code statewide. Encompassing a large swath of East Charlotte — including Plaza-Midwood, NoDa, parts of Elizabeth and parts of the 7th St./Monroe and Central Ave. corridors — 28205 is home to dozens of LGBT-owned or -friendly businesses, bars, coffee shops, antique stores and neighborhoods. At one time, Charlotte’s gay bookstore, White Rabbit, and the Lesbian & Gay Community Center found themselves at home in Plaza-Midwood. qnotes’ offices are here, too. Large LGBT presence key to East Charlotte development | QNotes Gay Charlotte and LGBT Carolina News, Arts & Entertainment
Here are some neighborhoods in Charlotte that attract the so-called "creative class".
Charlotte has a bigger population. Obviously, there will be more gays. I am very familiar with Noda, Plaza Midwood and Southend. They have a long way to go to become as hip as Durham or Chapel Hill. I(Sorry I dont have an imaginary border line saying they are not accounted for Raleigh. They are only 20 mins drive. That's like saying Silicon Valley and the Napa Valley don't bring anything to San Francisco).
If you look at voting patterns, Raleigh is much more liberal than Charlotte. Higher TOLERANCE! Quantity alone does not make a place better.
For someone living in Raleigh, it is amazing to have Durham and Chapel Hill so close. It is a compliment to Raleigh, not an insult. The three spots together (Triangle) is among the most underrated places in the US.
Charlotte has a bigger population. Obviously, there will be more gays.
The zip code in the state with the highest percentage of same sex households is downtown Charlotte.
ZIP code by percentage** (20 or more couples)
28202 (Downtown Charlotte) 6.18
27601 (Century, Raleigh) 5.34
28801 (Downtown Asheville) 5.01
27701 (Northgate, Durham) 4.68
28204 (Duke, Durham) 4.38
ZIP code by highest number
28205 (Eastway, Charlotte)* 215
27705 (West Durham 138
28806 (West Asheville) 135
27707 (Lakewood, Durham) 130
27701 (Northgate, Durham) 124
The state's first transgender delegate lives in Charlotte.
Quote: Democrats on Saturday selected the remainder of the party’s 158-member delegation to September’s Democratic National Convention in Charlotte. And they did it with an emphasis on diversity. Among those picked Saturday: Janice Covington of Charlotte, the first openly transgender person to serve as a Democratic delegate from the state.“It’s important to my community – to the whole LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender) community” – to be a part of the convention, Covington, 64, said. “We’ve always been left off the bus. Transgenders have always been the redheaded stepchildren.” N.C. Democrats choose first transgender in diverse DNC delegation | WCNC.com Charlotte
As for the educated class, UNCC recently did a detailed study of who is moving to Charlotte. The following shows what the study found.
Quote: Who are these newcomers? Demographically, the newcomers resemble the population that was already here, with a couple of distinctions. In terms of race/ethnicity, half were white (non-Hispanic), one-quarter were black, and about one-tenth were Hispanic, much like the existing population. However, about 11 percent were Asian, compared with 5 percent of the existing population. As for education level, the 2010 newcomers were slightly more educated than the existing population. More than 43 percent were college educated (compared to 39 percent of those already here), and 30 percent had a high school diploma or less (compared to 32.5 percent of residents at the time). City of transplants still draws them in | UNC Charlotte Urban Institute
Though I'm not a huge fan of Forbes listings, Charlotte has made a few lists when it comes to best places for college grads.
The first link was from 2013 and the second was from 2011. I posted both to show that there is a trend. Historically, Raleigh has always been far more educated than Charlotte. The link below shows how Charlotte began to close that gap from 2000 to 2007.
If you look at voting patterns, Raleigh is much more liberal than Charlotte. Higher TOLERANCE!
On the exact same night that Charlotte elected its first openly gay city council member, a gay male running for Raleigh's city council lost (if my memory is correct). Feel free to look it up if you don't believe me. For the record, I'm not saying that one city is more tolerant than the other. I'm just showing you that things aren't as black and white as you seem to think when it comes to Charlotte and Raleigh. For example, you speak of tolerance. However, I question (after reading your posts) whether or not a Christian/heterosexual/conservative/white male/business owner would be "tolerated" in the Triangle. In Charlotte, such a man is welcomed. In Charlotte, the gay dude is welcomed too. If anything, it could be argued that metro Charlotte's middle-of-the-road status attracts a broader population; which would explain why metro Charlotte has more people than the Triangle.
Last edited by urbancharlotte; 07-27-2013 at 02:12 PM..
Charlotte has a bigger population. Obviously, there will be more gays. I am very familiar with Noda, Plaza Midwood and Southend. They have a long way to go to become as hip as Durham or Chapel Hill. I(Sorry I dont have an imaginary border line saying they are not accounted for Raleigh. They are only 20 mins drive. That's like saying Silicon Valley and the Napa Valley don't bring anything to San Francisco).
If you look at voting patterns, Raleigh is much more liberal than Charlotte. Higher TOLERANCE! Quantity alone does not make a place better.
For someone living in Raleigh, it is amazing to have Durham and Chapel Hill so close. It is a compliment to Raleigh, not an insult. The three spots together (Triangle) is among the most underrated places in the US.
Again you have to show everyone on City-Data that Raleigh cannot hold it own against the Queen City. Why do you continue to fight against everyone that says something on this post. Trust me i regularly spend time in Noda, Plaza Midwood and im in love with South End(That light rail does something to me lol). I stayed in Durham once upon a time ago and hanged out in Raleigh and these places in Charlotte rips Raleigh to pieces. I don't have to even use Southpark, Ballantyne, University City, Lake Norman , and the up and coming North Park Mall area. Raleigh is a nice place but comparing it to a city in a different tier is apples and oranges. Let Charlotte continue to be what is is. A progressive and powerful city and let Raleigh just be the state Capital.
I think I am arguing for apples, and you are arguing for oranges. I am not here to measure a city in terms of the categories and aspects you are measuring. I agree with your post above (your point is oranges, and my point is apple).
Here's my point. For the "creative class", Raleigh is a better place than Charlotte. Raleigh is similar to DC that it was recently called out as a "creative class" hotspot along with DC, Seattle, Austin, San Francisco, Toronto.
Charlotte and Atlanta are not (yet) creative class hotspots. Just for the subset of people called the creative class, Raleigh is better than Charlotte and DC is better than Atlanta.
I am not intelligent enough to get into people's minds and empathize subjective experiences to be able to tell which city is better for whom (although sociologists and economists think Raleigh is generally a top city among its peers for singles and families).
I do not care about Atlanta's GDP, growth, etc. I am talking only of what the city offers to a modern, progressive, hip "creative class".
Your initial foray into this thread (post #1400) was a very clear announcement on your part that Raleigh is an objectively better city overall solely due to the "creative class" presence and being more liberal. This is obviously an extremely narrow and limited way to judge a city's progress across the board and this is where the criticism of your perspective comes in. Furthermore, I find it a bit funny that you so flippantly dismiss GDP, growth, etc. when those sorts of things constitute the biggest reason Raleigh offers what it does. Do you think it would attract "creative class" types in droves if it were not for the large number of high-tech, knowledge-based jobs in the area, which is directly related to GDP? And in turn, without that large, rapidly-growing population base (growth), do you think all of those world class restaurants and foodie options would be available? Without that GDP and growth, Raleigh would just be Asheville without the mountains.
"Creative class" industries have their place for sure, but if we're talking about Charlotte vs. Raleigh here within the context of well-rounded, economically diverse, business-friendly places that offer more for all types of people and not just Birkenstock-friendly types who almost instantaneously homogenize and sanitize any city they move to in droves (while, ironically, at the same time claiming to love diversity), then your extremely limited perspective doesn't come close to telling the whole story whatsoever.
I think both Charlotte and Raleigh should emulate the dynamic boomtown and boom region that is DC. Raleigh abc Durham are definitely much more DC-focused and aware than Charlotte, for obvious reasons, but Charlotte should look to DC for lessons and goals.
I think both Charlotte and Raleigh should emulate the dynamic boomtown and boom region that is DC. Raleigh abc Durham are definitely much more DC-focused and aware than Charlotte, for obvious reasons, but Charlotte should look to DC for lessons and goals.
I'd say Charlotte is already doing that to a greater degree than Raleigh with transit expansion, TOD, and urban development in general. In terms of the local economy however, Charlotte isn't a capital city nor does it have the research institutions that ensure a constant influx of federal funding.
The Whole Foods Market is a great analogy. The Whole Foods Market of Charlotte (that recently opened last year) is in a BEAUTIFUL building. The physical beauty is great. However, content wise, it is extremely poor. There's a large section of packaged goods, and very limited produce, meat, fish. I have foodies, restaurant critiques, cooks from NYC and San Francisco cringe at Charlotte's Whole Foods. It's quantity over quality ( huge aisles of packaged products and limited selection of meat, fish,vegetables).
The Whole Foods MarketS in Raleigh (4 stores within less than 20 min driving distance from downtown Raleigh) are located in UGLY buildings. However, the offerings are HUGE. Fish, meat, vegetables - incredible variety. I cook from French cuisines to Thai (the Raleigh Whole Foods was a paradise for me). I struggle at the Charlotte Whole Foods. It's just not for people who like to cook. Common spices that are readily available in Raleigh's is not no where to seen in Charlotte's.
The Whole Foods Market of Charlotte does a remarkable job of representing Charlotte with its beautiful exterior, and dull interior.
Every wonder why Whole Foods has been successfully running 4 stores in the Raleigh area for a decade almost while the business struggled to open in Charlotte till mid 2012? It's just that the taste of people in Raleigh is different from that of Charlotte.
It's a not a good thing or a bad thing. There's two types of people attracted to different types of cities.
Aside from the fact you ignored my response, Whole Foods never struggled to open in Charlotte. They struggled to find the right location in Charlotte, after the company became aware there was a large demand for them. Something I've learned is when Charlotte wants something, Charlotte gets it (IKEA, H&M, Whole Foods, Publix).
Raleigh is more progressive because of Whole Foods??? Sounds a little desperate.
Meanwhile, have fun driving your cars everywhere in your progressive towns while we continue to build out our mass transportation, downtown area, etc. which i guess is not progressive???
Our downtown area continues to grow impressively with sports (3 stadiums), residential, office and will be awesome once connected to our urban neighborhoods (NoDa, Plaza-Midwood) & UNCC via rail (which are under construcion)
I'm still baffled by this more progressive business.
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