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Old 04-04-2013, 11:33 AM
 
2,401 posts, read 3,356,116 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GCharlotte View Post
Literally? What law allows a plant to set up shop on someone's property?

And OP it's ETJs not ETJ's.
Sorry for the incorrect punctuation...have anything to add to the topic?
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Old 04-04-2013, 11:57 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomstudent View Post
In addition to water and sewer they also need town police protection to improve response time for crime, and currently in they have to deal with town permitting, which they have no control over via the ballot box. If Pinehurst wants to exercise control over places like Jackson Hamlet they should have annexed them rather then treating them like colonial backwaters using ETJ.
I believe Jackson Hamlet lacks the population density required for city-initiated annexation. Actually, it's all moot because the NC Legislature has pretty much outlawed annexation except by petition of the property owners.

The all-knowers in Raleigh should have made it EASIER to annex places like Jackson Hamlet. Instead, they took their marching orders from well-off political donors who don't want to be annexed and have to pay their share of the municipal services they benefit from. They (places like Pinewild in Pinehurst) didn't give a crap about places like Jackson Hamlet or Midway, but they sure used them as part of their argument to try and avoid taxes and get NC annexation laws get overthrown.

In NC, ETJ and annexation laws have served the state well. The fact that there were some bad actors or bad situations should have led to improvements in the law, the throwing the whole thing out.
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Old 04-05-2013, 11:04 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Recip View Post
I believe Jackson Hamlet lacks the population density required for city-initiated annexation. Actually, it's all moot because the NC Legislature has pretty much outlawed annexation except by petition of the property owners.

The all-knowers in Raleigh should have made it EASIER to annex places like Jackson Hamlet. Instead, they took their marching orders from well-off political donors who don't want to be annexed and have to pay their share of the municipal services they benefit from. They (places like Pinewild in Pinehurst) didn't give a crap about places like Jackson Hamlet or Midway, but they sure used them as part of their argument to try and avoid taxes and get NC annexation laws get overthrown.

In NC, ETJ and annexation laws have served the state well. The fact that there were some bad actors or bad situations should have led to improvements in the law, the throwing the whole thing out.
Yep...bad policy decisions...and its going to occur with ETJ's as well. There are a ton of poor areas just outside of towns in NC that are supported by the adjacent towns, but were not included in the towns because of flexibility with the ETJ and annexation laws. Municipalities COULD counter the legislation by cutting off those they are providing services for outside their limits (this could include electri-cities communities). Stripping municipal rights will likely HURT those right outside their limits, not help them...certainly in the long run. Right now they are just jacking up the fee's for the services because of their inability to grow their tax base. The raising of fee's by municipalities is the unintended consequence of the drastic change in annexation law.
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Old 04-05-2013, 11:34 AM
 
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HP91 View Post
Yep...bad policy decisions...and its going to occur with ETJ's as well. There are a ton of poor areas just outside of towns in NC that are supported by the adjacent towns, but were not included in the towns because of flexibility with the ETJ and annexation laws. Municipalities COULD counter the legislation by cutting off those they are providing services for outside their limits (this could include electri-cities communities). Stripping municipal rights will likely HURT those right outside their limits, not help them...certainly in the long run. Right now they are just jacking up the fee's for the services because of their inability to grow their tax base. The raising of fee's by municipalities is the unintended consequence of the drastic change in annexation law.
I live in an electri-cities city. You hit the nail on the head. The annexation law punished every city for the bad actions of a few. Killing the ETJs is beyond stupid. My city provides electricity, gas, & water. The city is providing water to some poor areas in the ETJ. The city did not annex them because they are poor & can not afford the extra taxes. Their wells went bad, so the city got a grant to run a line & is providing water.
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Old 04-05-2013, 12:52 PM
 
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Originally Posted by southbound_295 View Post
I live in an electri-cities city. You hit the nail on the head. The annexation law punished every city for the bad actions of a few. Killing the ETJs is beyond stupid. My city provides electricity, gas, & water. The city is providing water to some poor areas in the ETJ. The city did not annex them because they are poor & can not afford the extra taxes. Their wells went bad, so the city got a grant to run a line & is providing water.
I would say that about 90% of municipalities if not more are providing some service to folks in an ETJ...water/sewer/police/trash....whatever. That service is in jeopardy of discontinuing.....very soon. And many of these folks are poor and need the service. ETJ's were eligible for grants under the municipal rules...if there is no ETJ, there is no grant to help those folks who live just outside the boundary...they will get lumped into the "county" pool which is much less likely to be funded (because of limits of number of grants for any one municipality...in this case a county as well as more competition within the county).

If the cities don't extend water and sewer to unincorporated areas, then you have to come up with a whole new system to deal with those areas...very expensive and inefficient. Just based on that, you can see why "drastic" changes to annexation and ETJ will have a negative effect on folks just outside of town.
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Old 04-05-2013, 02:27 PM
 
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HP91 View Post
I would say that about 90% of municipalities if not more are providing some service to folks in an ETJ...water/sewer/police/trash....whatever. That service is in jeopardy of discontinuing.....very soon. And many of these folks are poor and need the service. ETJ's were eligible for grants under the municipal rules...if there is no ETJ, there is no grant to help those folks who live just outside the boundary...they will get lumped into the "county" pool which is much less likely to be funded (because of limits of number of grants for any one municipality...in this case a county as well as more competition within the county).

If the cities don't extend water and sewer to unincorporated areas, then you have to come up with a whole new system to deal with those areas...very expensive and inefficient. Just based on that, you can see why "drastic" changes to annexation and ETJ will have a negative effect on folks just outside of town.
My city could have annexed several areas, forcibly, but didn't. They saw no point in driving people out. These laws are punitive to municipalities that did not abuse the annexation laws & are helping people who need iit in the ETJs. It is avoiding the need for jobs, though, except for lawyers.
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Old 04-05-2013, 08:59 PM
 
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Honestly, I'm trying to figure out who it was abusing the annexation law...I recall when Wilmington annexed Landfall and such to include the farm that has now become Mayfaire. I always go back to the mantra...if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck, its a duck. If it looks like a city and acts like a city, its a city.

The Monkey Junction annexation that became a hot topic attributing to the law change had 900 businesses in it, including a Wal-Mart, Lowe's, Home Depot, Lowe's Food's as well as many others...that's not a city? Really? I would love for someone to explain why a relatively small area with 900 businesses should not be labeled a city....should not be in a city.
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Old 04-06-2013, 12:47 AM
 
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
21,977 posts, read 27,258,015 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HP91 View Post
Honestly, I'm trying to figure out who it was abusing the annexation law...I recall when Wilmington annexed Landfall and such to include the farm that has now become Mayfaire. I always go back to the mantra...if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck, its a duck. If it looks like a city and acts like a city, its a city.

The Monkey Junction annexation that became a hot topic attributing to the law change had 900 businesses in it, including a Wal-Mart, Lowe's, Home Depot, Lowe's Food's as well as many others...that's not a city? Really? I would love for someone to explain why a relatively small area with 900 businesses should not be labeled a city....should not be in a city.
I read something about Fayetteville being a problem. Maybe someone from there can provide the details..
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Old 04-06-2013, 10:58 AM
 
Location: NC
10,005 posts, read 9,017,665 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HP91 View Post
Honestly, I'm trying to figure out who it was abusing the annexation law...I recall when Wilmington annexed Landfall and such to include the farm that has now become Mayfaire. I always go back to the mantra...if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck, its a duck. If it looks like a city and acts like a city, its a city.

The Monkey Junction annexation that became a hot topic attributing to the law change had 900 businesses in it, including a Wal-Mart, Lowe's, Home Depot, Lowe's Food's as well as many others...that's not a city? Really? I would love for someone to explain why a relatively small area with 900 businesses should not be labeled a city....should not be in a city.
The biggest thing I have heard is about Cary and Chapel Hill potentially moving in to annex desirable parts of Chatham.
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Old 04-08-2013, 06:02 AM
 
106 posts, read 275,202 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HP91 View Post
Honestly, I'm trying to figure out who it was abusing the annexation law...I recall when Wilmington annexed Landfall and such to include the farm that has now become Mayfaire. I always go back to the mantra...if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck, its a duck. If it looks like a city and acts like a city, its a city.

The Monkey Junction annexation that became a hot topic attributing to the law change had 900 businesses in it, including a Wal-Mart, Lowe's, Home Depot, Lowe's Food's as well as many others...that's not a city? Really? I would love for someone to explain why a relatively small area with 900 businesses should not be labeled a city....should not be in a city.
It was Fayetteville that pretty much put the final nail in the coffin for NC annexation. As I recall, some called it the "Big Grab"
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