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Also I said this my personal experience, there are 11 people in my immediate vicinity, of those 2 are from NC (most hired before I got here) others are from NH, MA, NY, OH, CO.
Our state is also experiencing explosive growth, especially in Charlotte and the Triangle. If you compare to states in the NE that are shrinking in population of course more folks originally from elsewhere are working here. We have more newcomers. Folks from out of state aren't moving to New Jersey or Massachusetts like they are to NC. That's more a reflection of our explosive growth and companies choosing to locate here than it is NC-ers not being qualified. Places like Charlotte and Raleigh are full of transplants because of the low unemployment and high quality of life and low cost of living.
If you check some place else that has been experiencing this level of growth like areas in Texas you will also find a lot of workers who were originally from out of state.
Our state is also experiencing explosive growth, especially in Charlotte and the Triangle. If you compare to states in the NE that are shrinking in population of course more folks originally from elsewhere are working here. We have more newcomers. Folks from out of state aren't moving to New Jersey or Massachusetts like they are to NC. That's more a reflection of our explosive growth and companies choosing to locate here than it is NC-ers not being qualified. Places like Charlotte and Raleigh are full of transplants because of the low unemployment and high quality of life and low cost of living.
If you check some place else that has been experiencing this level of growth like areas in Texas you will also find a lot of workers who were originally from out of state.
That is true, I was reading yesterday about a net outflow of residents of CT. Many young people leave because they can't afford it, older people to retire in warmer climates, some of us for jobs.
I can dig up many more, but it is happening. And I know teachers don't go into it for the money but they also have to be able to live off their wages. I was looking at salary schedules for teachers.
How would you like to know you will not get a raise for the first four years in your job, after that you only get a raise of $150 at which level you will remain for the next 5 years?
However sometimes the truth hurts, people get used to things being the same way and don't like change, I get it the people also don't like criticism. I get it at work and I use it to improve, not dismiss the person giving it because I think they are biased.
Nowhere did I say southerners weren't smart enough, please stop putting words on my screen, I said qualified. Sure UNC puts out a lot of great students, the triangle has great schools, but the rest of the state lags. It would be interesting to see how many of those students stay in state and how many move to others.
Also I said this my personal experience, there are 11 people in my immediate vicinity, of those 2 are from NC (most hired before I got here) others are from NH, MA, NY, OH, CO.
Your comment was condescending...you didn't say southerners aren't smart enough literally, but you certainly did in so many words. And now you think we can't read between the lines? We are smart enough to do that as well. Surprise!
Your statement about "the rest of the state" lagging is SO wrong I don't even know where to start. All I can do is reiterate what I said about schools ranging from excellent to poor within the same system. Triangle schools are not excellent - some are, others aren't - just like in every other school system in the state. Do you even know any other schools in NC or are you making these statements on hearsay? Sounds like the latter...you would do well to educated yourself on the state of individual schools before making such a ridiculously false statement. And who said that teachers are getting raises for the next few years? The salary schedule indicate annual raises...I know sometimes they don't happen (I lived in another state and didn't get a raise several times over the years) but it certainly doesn't happen every year.
The myth about teachers flooding out of NC is absolutely false. I'm a Democrat and a liberal, but I don't just take everything at face value. I realize education is a partisan issue in NC right now, and a lot of bad information has been put out demonizing the Republican-led legislature for education cuts. The articles about the teacher exodus are simply more of that rhetoric...in other words, don't believe everything you read - especially when it is criticizing the other party. The vast majority of teachers are not going to pack up and move out of state for a thousand dollars a year more...most have families and ties in NC and are not looking for a cross-country move. As a teacher, I just have not seen any proof of it...it's just politics more than anything and an example of calling out Republicans (which I am very fond of but only when it's warranted). The urban schools systems pay just as well as other urban school systems. There is a large divide between those and rural systems, but it's that way in every state and the cost of living is lower in rural areas. For the COL, NC teacher salaries are competitive with other states. I'm not sure what you referenced above about salaries as there was nothing to indicate what it was, but I assume it's a state teacher salary schedule but doesn't include the supplements teachers get for teaching in urban/suburban systems. The state starting salary may be $35,000 but the Charlotte/Mecklenburg system adds a $5,000 supplement so a first year teacher with a Bachelor's degree starts at $40,246 (Compensation). Similarly the same teacher starts at $39,888 in Winston Salem/Forsyth County (Financial Services / Salary Schedules). It's a very livable salary for the cost of living in those areas, and it's similar to salaries around the country when COL is considered.
Reminder: Your personal experience does not equal reality. You could 100% transplants working around you but that wouldn't mean that it's representative of the state of NC.
Unless something changes, the quality of education the students receive will likely go down compared to other states. And when you come from one of those other states, it can be a bit frustrating.
Why do some people say this? Why exactly would the quality of education decrease? The quality of teachers doesn't change, and teachers are very accustomed to rolling with the changes. It's more rhetoric designed to criticize the Republicans in congress (which I'm all for criticizing them when it's warranted) rather than reality. I definitely hope we vote out some of these clowns and get education back on track, but I definitely don't buy into the gloom and doom scare tactics promoted by the liberals. I agree that education funding is ultra important and I hate the cuts that have been made, but teachers are trained not to allow those kinds of things to affect the quality of our teaching. Creative teachers come up with ways to teach even without the support of Congress. The quality of education in the state of NC is more in the hands of our great teachers than in the hands of our legislators.
I'm not sure that is a great measure, though, either. While UNC-CH is a very well-ranked public university, it is also relatively small compared to the size of the state it resides in. Only about 4500 students attend UNC-CH each year as a freshman compared to the about 100K students who graduate high school in NC each year. Just because at least 80% of ~4500 students at well-ranked UNC-CH are from NC does not necessarily mean that the middle and high schools in the state are doing a good job overall preparing their students for college and the workforce.
UNC-Chapel Hill isn't the only good school in NC...it is the best public university and one of the best in the US, but there are other decent schools in the UNC system (I graduated from one of them) and there are many private universities in NC as well as HBCUs - and don't forget that many NC high school graduates go out of state for college. There is an excellent community college system in NC as well that helps many students further prepare for a 4-year college.
There is no proof that NC schools are not preparing students for college and the workforce. Of course not every student is meant for college, but the ones that are have many options both within and outside of NC. Some students make choices based on finances, location, major, and other variables, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they aren't prepared or able to attend UNC-Chapel Hill. It's just not fair to assume that everyone who chooses to go elsewhere does so out of necessity.
Location: Chapel Hill, NC, formerly NoVA and Phila
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Originally Posted by JoeTarheel
Why do some people say this? Why exactly would the quality of education decrease? The quality of teachers doesn't change, and teachers are very accustomed to rolling with the changes. It's more rhetoric designed to criticize the Republicans in congress (which I'm all for criticizing them when it's warranted) rather than reality. I definitely hope we vote out some of these clowns and get education back on track, but I definitely don't buy into the gloom and doom scare tactics promoted by the liberals. I agree that education funding is ultra important and I hate the cuts that have been made, but teachers are trained not to allow those kinds of things to affect the quality of our teaching. Creative teachers come up with ways to teach even without the support of Congress. The quality of education in the state of NC is more in the hands of our great teachers than in the hands of our legislators.
The quality would decrease as teachers leave, which we have experienced here in our two Chapel Hill schools. Also, there have been cuts to some programs and specialists. I can name several good teachers who have left and some of the replacements have not been anything to brag about. I start to worry when you get emails from the language arts teacher using the wrong "your."
Location: Chapel Hill, NC, formerly NoVA and Phila
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Originally Posted by JoeTarheel
UNC-Chapel Hill isn't the only good school in NC...it is the best public university and one of the best in the US, but there are other decent schools in the UNC system (I graduated from one of them) and there are many private universities in NC as well as HBCUs - and don't forget that many NC high school graduates go out of state for college. There is an excellent community college system in NC as well that helps many students further prepare for a 4-year college.
There is no proof that NC schools are not preparing students for college and the workforce. Of course not every student is meant for college, but the ones that are have many options both within and outside of NC. Some students make choices based on finances, location, major, and other variables, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they aren't prepared or able to attend UNC-Chapel Hill. It's just not fair to assume that everyone who chooses to go elsewhere does so out of necessity.
If you read what I wrote, I said that having a high quality public university like UNC-CH is not necessarily a good measure of how the state is educating all of its young people across the state at the elementary and secondary level.
The quality would decrease as teachers leave, which we have experienced here in our two Chapel Hill schools. Also, there have been cuts to some programs and specialists. I can name several good teachers who have left and some of the replacements have not been anything to brag about. I start to worry when you get emails from the language arts teacher using the wrong "your."
Exactly how many teachers have left Chapel Hill schools for out-of-state systems? I'm interested in an actual number. Keep in mind that there is turnover every year in public schools due to relocations, retirements, and other situations unrelated to leaving for higher salaries. I'm just wondering how you know where/why this flood of teachers has gone.
And exactly how are you judging the quality of any replacement teachers other than a possible typo in an email? I'm interested in your assessment methods.
Cuts to programs are often due to budgeting within each school - not due to state budgetary cuts. As a teacher I understand a bit about how school budgets work. I'm just wondering about your area of expertise on the subject...
If you read what I wrote, I said that having a high quality public university like UNC-CH is not necessarily a good measure of how the state is educating all of its young people across the state at the elementary and secondary level.
I realize that, yet you seem to be saying that it IS a good measure of how poorly the state is educating its young people. "80% of ~4500 students at well-ranked UNC-CH are from NC does not necessarily mean that the middle and high schools in the state are doing a good job overall preparing their students for college and the workforce." So if it doesn't mean they ARE doing a good job, then what does it mean? They AREN'T doing a good job? That's the way it came across to me.
Location: Chapel Hill, NC, formerly NoVA and Phila
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Originally Posted by JoeTarheel
I realize that, yet you seem to be saying that it IS a good measure of how poorly the state is educating its young people. "80% of ~4500 students at well-ranked UNC-CH are from NC does not necessarily mean that the middle and high schools in the state are doing a good job overall preparing their students for college and the workforce." So if it doesn't mean they ARE doing a good job, then what does it mean? They AREN'T doing a good job? That's the way it came across to me.
No, I'm NOT saying it is a good measure of how poorly the state is educating its young people. I'm saying that it's not a VALID measure of how the state is or is not educating its students at the primary and secondary level. My mention of the numbers was that just because about 3600 in-state students go to highly-ranked UNC-CH each year doesn't really tell us anything other than 3600 students out of the about 100K students in the state go to the state's flagship university each year. There are better measures out there on how well students are doing at the primary and secondary level.
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