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Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrappy907
Think about it this way. Per the media 218,000 people were prevented from voting in NC. And this is just a primary. And if there's one thing we both appear to agree about, the majority of those 218,000 voters were likely democrat voters. Now a study will likely never been done, but likely the majority of those 218,000 were people who should not have been allowed to vote in NC in the first place. If that is the case, it does in fact mean voter fraud is prevalent in NC. And people knew about this law. Imagine how many people voted in past elections who should not have been allowed to. We are talking about the kind of #s that could sway elections. Bernie sanders only lost to Hillary by 156,000 votes. Cruz only lost to Trump by 40,000.
That supposition can only be done if they can compile a record of which groups were turned away & for what reason. Were they really attempting to vote illegally? Did they fall in the cracks? It was announced that you could vote a provisional ballot without ID. Did they understand what that meant? The potential Trump voter who I saw was offered a provisional ballot & told that it might count.
Also, was the law applied equally across the state? The man I saw was wearing a uniform from a local company with a photo ID issued by that company. I live in a blueish-purple county. Would officials in a deep-red county near me have let the Republican vote anyway, as he was clearly identifiable as himself.
When Rizzo used to rant & rave about the voting fraud because of the Cinderellas, people either snickered or jumped on the outrage train. I admit that I snickered. After finding a Cinderella in one of my families, I was surprised, but then I started noticing an abundance of Cinderellas.
I've seen the proof of intent for voter suppression. I want to see proof of intent of voter fraud. I think that that's reasonable. I'm coming at it from a different place than you. I believe that there's a lot of corruption in politics & just because I'm not a native from here doesn't mean that I don't have experience with right-wing, racist, paranoid politicians.
Think about it this way. Per the media 218,000 people were prevented from voting in NC. And this is just a primary. And if there's one thing we both appear to agree about, the majority of those 218,000 voters were likely democrat voters. Now a study will likely never been done, but likely the majority of those 218,000 were people who should not have been allowed to vote in NC in the first place. If that is the case, it does in fact mean voter fraud is prevalent in NC. And people knew about this law. Imagine how many people voted in past elections who should not have been allowed to. We are talking about the kind of #s that could sway elections. Bernie sanders only lost to Hillary by 156,000 votes. Cruz only lost to Trump by 40,000.
You are wrong, a study has been done regarding the incidence of voter fraud and that is an outrageous statement that 5% of the people who turned out to vote should not have been allowed to vote.
"Kansas’ secretary of state examined 84 million votes cast in 22 states to look for duplicate registrants. In the end 14 cases were referred for prosecution, representing "Kansas’ secretary of state examined 84 million votes cast in 22 states to look for duplicate registrants. In the end 14 cases were referred for prosecution, representing 0.00000017 percent of the votes cast.
So that is 218,000 voters or 5% of all voters in NC this primary vs 0.00000017 percent of 84 million votes cast in 22 states where the person should not have been allowed to vote.
Just FYI, if you want to vote in a way to most benefit yourself and society, it is obvious you need to make your decision on truthful and unbiased information. I ask you if that is possible when 6 corporations control the majority of the US media and broadcast their own propaganda 27/2/365, i.e. voter fraud?
Which merely required filling out a registration card. You could even mail it in (or have it submitted by the always ethical voter-drives), no need to register in person. No need to show that you are actually a resident of NC. Out-of-state students do have a NC address. So no, that WAS NOT a mechanism to prevent out of state students from voting.
If you live in NC for 30 days, the law says you can vote! Was there a big student voter-fraud case I missed somewhere?
Just because you got a NC ID card doesn't mean you rescinded your voter registration in the last state you lived in... Which is exactly like voter registration!
So yes, it is a mechanism. Maybe imperfect... But that's life. No system is perfect. And the system we have now turned away 218K voters. How can anyone look at that and think it's working great? Even if only half were "legitimate"? And I don't know anyone naive enough to confess they think the 218 were likely fraudsters. Makes me chuckle just typing it!
That supposition can only be done if they can compile a record of which groups were turned away & for what reason. Were they really attempting to vote illegally? Did they fall in the cracks? It was announced that you could vote a provisional ballot without ID. Did they understand what that meant? The potential Trump voter who I saw was offered a provisional ballot & told that it might count.
As I said, it is unlikely any type of study will be done. I will say this, if anyone had really felt strongly that they were treated unfairly, the media would've been happy to report it. It's still early, but I have not seen any stories in the Charlotte Observer as of yet other than some unnamed woman complaining that they wouldn't accept her college id.
Quote:
Originally Posted by southbound_295
Also, was the law applied equally across the state? The man I saw was wearing a uniform from a local company with a photo ID issued by that company. I live in a blueish-purple county. Would officials in a deep-red county near me have let the Republican vote anyway, as he was clearly identifiable as himself.
If officials let a republican vote anyway, that would constitute voter fraud. Officials can play as large a role in voter fraud (if not larger) than voters. It is nice to see, if only for a brief accidental moment, that you do think voter fraud may be more real than you'd like to admit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by southbound_295
I've seen the proof of intent for voter suppression. I want to see proof of intent of voter fraud. I think that that's reasonable. I'm coming at it from a different place than you. I believe that there's a lot of corruption in politics & just because I'm not a native from here doesn't mean that I don't have experience with right-wing, racist, paranoid politicians.
As I've said, voter fraud is so easy to get away with it's almost impossible to get caught. A women in OH admitted on video to voting once for her and once for her sister. If not for the video, no one ever would've known. Project veritus has done videos showing just how easy it is to commit voter fraud. So if you really care, google is your friend. Like you I am not native from here and that doesn't mean I don't have experience with left-wing, racist, paranoid politicians.
You are wrong, a study has been done regarding the incidence of voter fraud and that is an outrageous statement that 5% of the people who turned out to vote should not have been allowed to vote.
"Kansas’ secretary of state examined 84 million votes cast in 22 states to look for duplicate registrants. In the end 14 cases were referred for prosecution, representing "Kansas’ secretary of state examined 84 million votes cast in 22 states to look for duplicate registrants. In the end 14 cases were referred for prosecution, representing 0.00000017 percent of the votes cast.
So that is 218,000 voters or 5% of all voters in NC this primary vs 0.00000017 percent of 84 million votes cast in 22 states where the person should not have been allowed to vote.
Just FYI, if you want to vote in a way to most benefit yourself and society, it is obvious you need to make your decision on truthful and unbiased information. I ask you if that is possible when 6 corporations control the majority of the US media and broadcast their own propaganda 27/2/365, i.e. voter fraud?
Probably not.
There is no study that can actually determine voter fraud since anyone can walk into a state that does not require voter id, state their name is John Smith, and vote as John Smith. Having come from a state that did not require ID, there was no way anyone could actually know that I was me.
The idea that all or even most of the 218,000 people who were denied were just people who fell through the cracks is utter nonsense.
If you live in NC for 30 days, the law says you can vote! Was there a big student voter-fraud case I missed somewhere?
Just because you got a NC ID card doesn't mean you rescinded your voter registration in the last state you lived in... Which is exactly like voter registration!
So yes, it is a mechanism. Maybe imperfect... But that's life. No system is perfect. And the system we have now turned away 218K voters. How can anyone look at that and think it's working great? Even if only half were "legitimate"? And I don't know anyone naive enough to confess they think the 218 were likely fraudsters. Makes me chuckle just typing it!
Wrong. Per the NC State Board of Elections you need to be a RESIDENT for at least 30 days. Students may live here, but they are not residents of the state. So when they vote here, intentionally or not, they are committing voter fraud. Facts are important
Wrong. Per the NC State Board of Elections you need to be a RESIDENT for at least 30 days. Students may live here, but they are not residents of the state. So when they vote here, intentionally or not, they are committing voter fraud. Facts are important
Can a student get a NC ID card or DL?
Yes, they can. That's my point. A student who goes the trouble of registering to vote fraud entry will likely go through the trouble of getting an ID card.
Yes, they can. That's my point. A student who goes the trouble of registering to vote fraud entry will likely go through the trouble of getting an ID card.
Sure. But they have to declare NC their state of residency. Once they declare NC their state of residency, the state requires you to transfer your dl to a NC drivers license within 60 days. Assuming they did that they got to vote Tuesday and they would not have been counted among the 218,000 people.
There is no study that can actually determine voter fraud since anyone can walk into a state that does not require voter id, state their name is John Smith, and vote as John Smith. Having come from a state that did not require ID, there was no way anyone could actually know that I was me.
The idea that all or even most of the 218,000 people who were denied were just people who fell through the cracks is utter nonsense.
Nonsense. Voter fraud is a myth. Think about it. Why would a voter commit voter fraud. After all it is a is a motiveless crime, any benefits are immaterial, while the costs are prohibitive. On the other hand, when there has been election fraud in American elections, it has usually been committed by politicians, party operatives and election officials who have something at stake in electoral outcomes. In other words, they have a motive.
“Many of the claims of voter fraud amount to a great deal of smoke without much fire…Most allegations of fraud turn out to be baseless—and that of the few allegations remaining, most reveal election irregularities and other forms of election misconduct, rather than fraud by individual voters. The type of individual voter fraud supposedly targeted by recent legislative efforts—especially efforts to require certain forms of voter ID—simply does not exist.” - study from NYU
Now I know this goes against the propaganda from right wing radio and Fox News as does climate change, but the facts are the facts.
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