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Old 11-27-2017, 05:26 PM
 
Location: Washington DC
3,749 posts, read 3,267,604 times
Reputation: 2650

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Quote:
Originally Posted by KelSmith View Post
Everyone is just mad that Charlotte is the most successful and fun city in North Carolina. As far as events and nightlife go, Charlotte is far superior to Raleigh. Raleigh tries to pretend that Durham and Chapel Hill's nightlife is part of their territory, even though they are their own thing. Charlotte also has different vibes in its individual neighborhoods like Southend, Montford in Myers Park, Noda, and Plaza Midwood.

Completely false.


People in Raleigh probably donít care what goes on in Charlotte other than carowinds & panthers (and surprisingly IKEA? I never understood that but theyíre getting one so...


Charlotte is not superior to Raleigh and the very mentioning of us being ďsuperiorĒis lame & goes against your point that Charlotte is a great city.


You donít have to dislike one city because you prefer the other

 
Old 11-27-2017, 06:15 PM
 
Location: Charlotte
2,839 posts, read 2,545,543 times
Reputation: 493
What you see in uptown Charlotte now, stated in the 1950's as a plan and updated every 10 years,

Raleigh killed it downtown by making the main street a mall with green water in its fountains. Raleigh did not get the ball rolling until the early 2000's. It was known people did not want to go downtown.
In 17 years Raleigh has made a big difference in downtown, and a place people will go. Raleigh downtown still lags uptown Charlotte, but Raleigh has plans to push downtown to another level.

What Raleigh will have to do go to another level.

3X the number of hotels Get some 4&5 star hotels.
Double the number of people working downtown.
Start a LRT line to service downtown.
Double its downtown office space

This is a good 10to15 year plan.
 
Old 11-27-2017, 10:01 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
922 posts, read 488,949 times
Reputation: 362
Quote:
Originally Posted by CLT1985 View Post
What you see in uptown Charlotte now, stated in the 1950's as a plan and updated every 10 years,

Raleigh killed it downtown by making the main street a mall with green water in its fountains. Raleigh did not get the ball rolling until the early 2000's. It was known people did not want to go downtown.
In 17 years Raleigh has made a big difference in downtown, and a place people will go. Raleigh downtown still lags uptown Charlotte, but Raleigh has plans to push downtown to another level.

What Raleigh will have to do go to another level.

3X the number of hotels Get some 4&5 star hotels.
Double the number of people working downtown.
Start a LRT line to service downtown.
Double its downtown office space

This is a good 10to15 year plan.
Yeah it seems like people forget that. All of this booming is still fairly new to Raleigh and the whole area really. I don’t think Raleigh ever prepared to really be a big city until the growth was already well underway. Greensboro and Winston use to be heavier hitters not all that long ago. So in that sense, no Raleigh is not going to be neck and neck with Charlotte in some of the typical “big city” developments. But it’s on its way! I wasn’t around 17+ years ago but from my understanding there has been quite a a transformation.

I don’t think Raleigh has to mimic Charlotte though in order to hit the so called next level. As a whole I believe the city is at that next level. As far as offering everything you would expect from a city. An argument can be made for the downtown I guess.

It just is setup so differently then Charlotte. So it will probably continue to grow a little different.

1. I agree on the hotels mostly. There’s more hotels on the way downtown but it’s mostly about the demand. For instance, our 1 professional sports team is out on 440 at PNC Arena instead of downtown. So the teams and any high dollar folks in town stay in North Hills/midtown at the Renaissance or Hilton etc because of the convenience. It is what it is. Even our Westin is going to Crabtree lol. The demand is just spread differently then Charlotte. Maybe if Raleigh were to win the MLS bid and build that stadium downtown, that would be one way to get bigger, more high end hotels downtown.

2. Since downtown has become a much more desirable place to be, I think we will see more and more companies choose it over RTP. But there still is RTP. There’s also Durham, close by. Heck even Cary at this point sometimes is the place jobs are put instead of downtown. But again I think the number for people will continue to grow decently. Probably just not explode.

3. Commuter heavy rail is probably our best bet for the near future. If I remember right that will connect RTP, RDU, downtown, and Cary, and Garner I believe. Seems like a no brainer to me. Especially when that last 2040 population trend showed crazy growth while potentially even underrating it by 10%. By then, being a 2.2m metro and a fairly tight knit CSA of well over 3+million, it would be really sad to not have some type of rail connecting everything.

4. Again idk how quickly we'll see office space go up. It’s justs not built on the same office space heavy industry as Charlotte. And then on top of that, downtown has lots of competition for that office space. The demand isn’t as centrally focused as Charlotte.

But regardless I don’t think it can be argued that Raleigh is doing fine for where it’s at and in it’s own way will continue to excel as it grows. As far as feeling developed, I think as soon as 2020 downtown will feel significantly more filled in. There’s a lot in the pipeline. Maybe not as big and flashy as some office towers going up in Uptown, but a lot more of the stuff that makes a downtown feel important is happening.

Last edited by Trent Y; 11-27-2017 at 11:05 PM..
 
Old 11-27-2017, 11:07 PM
 
Location: Greensboro, NC USA
4,540 posts, read 4,355,707 times
Reputation: 1462
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trent Y View Post
Yeah it seems like people forget that. All of this booming is still fairly new to Raleigh and the whole area really. I don’t think Raleigh ever prepared to really be a big city until the growth was already well underway. Greensboro and Winston use to be heavier hitters not all that long ago. So in that sense, no Raleigh is not going to be neck and neck with Charlotte in some of the typical “big city” developments. But it’s on its way! I wasn’t around 17+ years ago but from my understanding there has been quite a a transformation.

I don’t think Raleigh has to mimic Charlotte though in order to hit the so called next level. As a whole I believe the city is at that next level. As far as offering everything you would expect from a city. An argument can be made for the downtown I guess.

It just is setup so differently then Charlotte. So it will probably continue to grow a little different.

1. I agree on the hotels mostly. There’s more hotels on the way downtown but it’s mostly about the demand. For instance, our 1 professional sports team is out on 440 at PNC Arena instead of downtown. So the teams and any high dollar folks in town stay in North Hills/midtown at the Renaissance or Hilton etc because of the convenience. It is what it is. Even our Westin is going to Crabtree lol. The demand is just spread differently then Charlotte. Maybe if Raleigh were to win the MLS bid and build that stadium downtown, that would be one way to get bigger, more high end hotels downtown.

2. Since downtown has become a much more desirable place to be, I think we will see more and more companies choose it over RTP. But there still is RTP. There’s also Durham, close by. Heck even Cary at this point sometimes is the place jobs are put instead of downtown. But again I think the number for people will continue to grow decently. Probably just not explode.

3. Commuter heavy rail is probably our best bet for the near future. If I remember right that will connect RTP, RDU, downtown, and Cary, and Garner I believe. Seems like a no brainer to me. Especially when that last 2040 population trend showed crazy growth while potentially even underrating it by 10%. By then, being a 2.2m metro and a fairly tight knit CSA of well over 3+million, it would be really sad to not have some type of rail connecting everything.

4. Again idk how quickly we'll see office space go up. It’s justs not built on the same office space heavy industry as Charlotte. And then on top of that, downtown has lots of competition for that office space. The demand isn’t as centrally focused in Charlotte.

But regardless I don’t think it can be argued that Raleigh is doing fine for where it’s at and in it’s own way will continue to excel as it grows. As far as feeling developed, I think as soon as 2020 downtown will feel significantly more filled in. There’s a lot in the pipeline. Maybe not as big and flashy as some office towers going up in Uptown, but a lot more of the stuff that makes a downtown feel important is happening.
I agree that Charlotte shouldn't be used as a litmus test in whether or not the city "has arrived" or is at the next level. The two cities are just different and you can't measure a city by how many skyscrapers it has. Look at the amazing things thats going on in downtown Greenville, SC and its a much smaller city in population. Raleigh needs to take its own path and be Raleigh not Charlotte. Raleigh needs to stay true to itself and it will blossom.
 
Old 11-28-2017, 06:06 AM
 
Location: Washington DC
3,749 posts, read 3,267,604 times
Reputation: 2650
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsoboi78 View Post
I agree that Charlotte shouldn't be used as a litmus test in whether or not the city "has arrived" or is at the next level. The two cities are just different and you can't measure a city by how many skyscrapers it has. Look at the amazing things thats going on in downtown Greenville, SC and its a much smaller city in population. Raleigh needs to take its own path and be Raleigh not Charlotte. Raleigh needs to stay true to itself and it will blossom.


I think Raleigh is staying true to itself. No matter how much you distribute around 3 Million people between the Triangle, thatís significant. Itíll be big period in 15 years.


Uptown Charlotte just became legit in 2010 IMO and has reached critical point in 2015 and from here on itís getting better than I imagined it would in this time.
 
Old 11-28-2017, 08:19 AM
 
Location: Charlotte
2,839 posts, read 2,545,543 times
Reputation: 493
This is one of the assets that Charlotte has that has help Charlotte to attract companies to Charlotte.
We get a lot of new Companies Headquarters due to our airport. It is now going though a $2.5 Billion up grade.
The Charlotte Region has near 1,000 international companies. Top county Germany with 209 companies.


BUILDING FOR THE FUTURE
This continued and sustained growth means CLT is at or near capacity. The recently completed airfield capacity enhancement study and terminal capacity enhancement study looked at possible and potential passenger growth forecasts and together form the Airport’s master plan. This plan defines the future and long term airfield and terminal development and helps craft CLT’s construction and development through 2035.

Destination CLT Projects


Charlotte does not have to compete with RTP, Durham, Chapel Hill and Cary like Raleigh.

Last edited by CLT1985; 11-28-2017 at 08:39 AM..
 
Old 11-28-2017, 08:30 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
922 posts, read 488,949 times
Reputation: 362
Here's another example of what i was talking about as far as the development going on that doesn't necessarily focus just in downtown Raleigh.

North Hills Towers | Kane Realty Corporation

These are updated renderings. That right there is basically a Charlotte Uptown style development but its not going downtown Raleigh.
Attached Thumbnails
Raleigh vs Charlotte-16-9-tower-4-03.jpg   Raleigh vs Charlotte-16-9-tower-4-02.jpg  
 
Old 11-28-2017, 10:47 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
922 posts, read 488,949 times
Reputation: 362
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbancharlotte View Post
That project honestly reminds me of The Edison and Soleil Center; two projects with TONS of hype that never happened. And even if this project did happen, Greensboro did a large non-downtown tower 22 years ago.

KOURY HOTEL WILL REACH NEW HEIGHTS | | greensboro.com
I hear what you're saying but to be fair those projects did also come at the worst time. The recession killed the Edison and Soleil. But actually the Edison has been reworked by Highwoods and is just waiting tenants it sounds like. Its down scaled to one single 26 story office tower but still, better then nothing. I would imagine by 2020 that thing might come to fruition. Funny you mentioned the Soleil center as well because just last night apparently it was discovered that paperwork for that has been refiled. It also sounds like its been down scaled to 24 storys though. Even still, that is yet another significant tower likely to be put up outside of downtown.

As far as the Towers in North Hills pictured. They're up for preleasing. John Kane runs the show and doesnt put his name on anything unless its basically a done deal. Its been that way with everything in North Hills, The Dillon tower and apartments in the Warehouse District downtown, as well as the "Smokey Hollow" office and residence development going in over near Glenwood which will also bring a Publix downtown. If he's the guy doing it, it will start sooner then later. So though nothing is promised of course, theres an awful lot of confidence in those not just blind hype.

And that was just an example in what Raleighs development looks like vs the beast of Uptown Charlotte. Unfortunately great projects like that dont always get planned just for downtown. I drive by the Koury center probably 5/6 times a month so im aware of it. Nothing that i said had anything to do with Greensboro.
 
Old 11-28-2017, 03:26 PM
 
Location: Greensboro, NC USA
4,540 posts, read 4,355,707 times
Reputation: 1462
I drove throuh Raleigh today, first time I've been through the city in years. I passed North Hills on I-440 and it reminds me of Raleigh's version of South Park but with slightly taller buildings. The city is quickly developing a second skyline.
 
Old 11-28-2017, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
922 posts, read 488,949 times
Reputation: 362
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsoboi78 View Post
I drove throuh Raleigh today, first time I've been through the city in years. I passed North Hills on I-440 and it reminds me of Raleigh's version of South Park but with slightly taller buildings. The city is quickly developing a second skyline.
Itís density is pretty impressive if you get a chance to spend some time over there. Soon those towers pictured will fill the gap between the Park Central tower and the Captrust tower. It will pretty much feel like a second downtown. Not to mention all the land east of there planning to be built in similar fashion so as to connect Wake Forest rd. But again, as nice as it is, I canít help but think of how much it would help downtown instead. Bank of America chose North Hills and left downtown as an example. But some cities build up like that so it is what it is.
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